133 replies to this topic

[Rusty]

Interesting outlook Argrath. I'm also a big fan of Jules Verne and find his writing amazing as far as how much technology that was unknown in those days, yet are common in these days, that he mentioned in his books.

[Orkin]

The Bering Strait land bridge theory doesn't exclude the possibility of other tribes having migrated earlier, by whatever means.

Other animals migrated in similar fashion, why not Neanderthals?

[Rusty]

Yet another good point Orkin. Ok, so now the Land Bridge is starting to make more sense. And since geological evidence supports at least one Ice Age then it is conceivable that tribes would have migrated south to hunt game and to seek warmer climates. How awesome would that have been to see a tribe of primitive people taking down a Mammoth using crude spears and clubs!

[budgie]

Yet another good point Orkin. Ok, so now the Land Bridge is starting to make more sense. And since geological evidence supports at least one Ice Age then it is conceivable that tribes would have migrated south to hunt game and to seek warmer climates. How awesome would that have been to see a tribe of primitive people taking down a Mammoth using crude spears and clubs!

There was a programme on Discovery that supported that theory, it was concerned with the dissapearance of the mammoth.
Basically while carbon dating the mammoth they found the youngest on the North American continents, the theory being that Cro Magnon man basically followed the herds for food, as the herds hunted for newer pasture the humans followed..
Cant remember the title but it was interesting.

Budgie

[TroceroQuijas]

As simple observation shows, with no disrespect, still no revelance to the Hyborian Age, Conan, or REH. Whether REH gave a damn about human migrations in NA 50000 yrs ago or not is speculation only. Not to mention if REH "consciousely" knew the truth on history. Im sure whether people care about finding Atlantis or seek out any other archealogical facts can search it themselves if they obiously have access to the net. This is the Conan Official Website, not History Channel.com.

[budgie]

As simple observation shows, with no disrespect, still no revelance to the Hyborian Age, Conan, or REH. Whether REH gave a damn about human migrations in NA 50000 yrs ago or not is speculation only. Not to mention if REH "consciousely" knew the truth on history.  Im sure whether people care about finding Atlantis or seek out any other archealogical facts can search it themselves if they obiously have access to the net. This is the Conan Official Website, not History Channel.com.

Which is why I asked for a seperate section to cover things like this..

Every forum I have ever been on ends up with subjects that digress from the main subject, this one is no exception.

Theres no harm in thinking along parallel lines as in a way it is related.. Conan may be set in a mythical time and place but it does have similarities and links to the real world so human history does have a part to play as well.

If you were gonna be picky then why do we discuss REH's other creations or those of Lovecraft etc.. as you pointed out this is the OFFICIAL CONAN site.. so in that case wouldnt anything not directly related to Conan be considered void?

I suggest you do as I do, if you are not interested in a particular thread then either dont read it or change it to get it back on the subject manner its intended for.. its that simple..

Budgie

[TroceroQuijas]

I hear ya.

And I too am always interested in history. And I am always interested in any REH's parallels with history. Im just saying, I take the time to read the post, here, and am hoping that someone can show me some revelance to anything REH, because I was hoping there was. I come here with interest in all threads.

Now, if I can think of anything revelant to Conan, all I can think of him having anything to do with the western hemisphere is DeCamp's of the Isles. But still not much to do with the subject there. No big deal.

[Ironhand]

Ever since this site opened there have been people posting in who expressed interest in history and archeology (which I find much more interesting than posts about what's wrong with the latest Conan game.

I'm reminded of a group of posters who used to maintain that since this was the Official CONAN site, we shoudn't waste bandwidth talking about Robert E. Howard. Of course, they wanted to talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I say, to each his own. Read what interests you. And when you start a new thread, be sure to give it a sufficiently descriptive title so that readers will be able to tell whether or not they might be interested.

[Rusty]

And for those of us who are interested in History as a whole this is a great way to share information amongst ourselves. Like was mentioned before, all forums will on occasion veer away from what it was set up to be. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as the information being put out is useful and beneficial to some. Just from some of the links and topics posted on here I have gathered a lot of interesting information that otherwise would have taken me days or even weeks to locate on my own. And to all who have posted said information and links I truley appreciate it!

[Argrath Dragonspear]

There is a lot of relevance in this thread to REH, his works and Conan in general. For one thing, it does show how extremely well read REH was. The Conan stories he wrote are full of references to real historical countries, kingdoms, peoples etc which many of the readers of the stories would not know were real.
He also appears to have known information about geological events which have only the last 5 years or so been discovered.
Perhaps if the readers of this thread were to research the names of the kingdoms and peoples mentioned by REH in the Conan stories they would be amazed by what they will find!

[timeless]

Seems I read long ago a theory that a Roman voyage may have landed in North America. I know about the Vikings, Chinese, Brendan, Madoc, supposedly the Phoenicians and Africans and Egyptians as well, but was wondering if anyone knew about the possibility of Romans landing in the New World. I know coins have been found, but that's easily explainable.

[Pictish Scout]

Seems I read long ago a theory that a Roman voyage may have landed in North America. I know about the Vikings, Chinese, Brendan, Madoc, supposedly the Phoenicians and Africans and Egyptians as well, but was wondering if anyone knew about the possibility of Romans landing in the New World. I know coins have been found, but that's easily explainable.

Although romans were great navigators and had land contacts with China to the east and "black kingdoms" in Africa, I don't think they were much interested in the Atlantic. There was some rumors about the Tin Isles or Cassiterides in the Atlantic, maybe near the western coast of Iberia not as far as Azores and Madeira. Even Ireland wasn't much interesting to the romans.
I don't think if one could go to America with a galley. Vikings rowed to America because they had many landing points, Iceland, Greenland, etc. For the Romans the Atlantic had no landing points it was the great abyss, untill the portuguese knights dared to navigate there.

[Almuric]

I believe the Cassiterides were the British Isles, which are rich in tin (especially Cornwall).

[Taranaich]

Uh oh, I can see the Hollywood treatment even now...

I think there's certainly the possibility of some enterprising Romans going off the Atlantic, since they had some pretty mighty vessels, and certainly had the resources to make a good open ocean ship. Indeed, one could argue that ships of classical times were probably more capable than (early) medieval ones, especially considering the huge amount of naval warfare going on in those days. I don't know what bearing that would have on long sea voyages though.

[Kortoso]

The Old Copper Complex of the Western Great Lakes

Great Lakes Archaic Indians were the first to experiment with metal fabrication technologies in North America. Ninety-nine percent pure copper was discovered in the Lake Superior basin in vein form and in the form of nuggets in glacial outwash gravel beds. Through experimentation, Archaic peoples learned to hot and cold hammer the copper to produce a variety of projectile points, wood working tools, harpoons, fishhooks, and jewelry. Many of these tools were used for everyday subsistence activities; however, some copper goods were traded to cultures outside of the region in order to obtain exotic materials such as marine shell and exotic chert.

[Taranaich]

Heh, so THAT's where they ended up.

One wonders how different history would've been if they hadn't drifted from metalworking to jewelry, for Columbus (or the Vikings or the Phoenicians) to stumble upon a world not so different from their own...

[Savate]

not really....but this news piece made me think of "Red Nails"....

Pre-Inca temple discovered in Peru
By ANDREW WHALEN, Associated Press Writer Fri Mar 14, 7:09 PM ET

LIMA, Peru - Archaeologists have discovered the ruins of an ancient temple, roadway and irrigation systems at a famed fortress overlooking the Inca capital of Cuzco, according to officials involved with the dig.

The temple on the periphery of the Sacsayhuaman fortress casts added light on pre-Inca cultures of Peru, showing that the site had religious as well as military aims, according to researchers.

It includes 11 rooms thought to have held mummies and idols, lead archaeologist Oscar Rodriguez told The Associated Press.

The team of archaeologists that made the discoveries believes the structures predated the Inca empire but were then significantly developed and expanded.

"It's from both the Inca and pre-Inca cultures; it has a sequence," Washington Camacho, director of the Sacsayhuaman Archaeological Park, told the AP on Thursday. "The Incas entered and changed the form of the temple, as it initially had a more rustic architecture."

Archaeologists are still waiting for carbon dating tests, but Camacho said their calculations about the facilities' age are supported by historical references such as ceramics and construction style.

Previous carbon-14 dating of Sacsayhuaman revealed that the Killke culture constructed the fortress in the 1100s, said Peruvian archaeologist Luis Lumbreras, former director of Peru's National Culture Institute and an expert on Cuzco's pre-Incan cultures. He was not involved in the dig.

The Killke occupied the region from 900 to 1200 A.D., prior to the arrival of the Incas.

"These recent discoveries add to our knowledge of Sacsayhuaman, confirming again the aggregate nature of the fortress," Lumbreras told The Associated Press.

The Inca empire, based in the ancient city of Cuzco, flourished along the western edge of South America during the 1400s, prior to the arrival of the Spanish.

Today, Cuzco is Peru's main tourism hub and a launching point for visitors to the jungle-shrouded ruins of Machu Picchu, 40 miles northwest.

The temple lies a little under a mile from zigzagging walls of the Sacsayhuaman fortress, alongside an enormous rock formation believed to be one of the fortress' burial mounds.

"The temple is one of the most important in the Sacsayhuaman site," Camacho said.

The discovery of the temple reveals "the sacred ceremonial nature of the Killke," Lumbreras said. "Previously we thought Sacsayhuaman was simply a military fortification, but we now see it was a very complex ceremonial center.

Lumbreras, now working with Peru's Institute for the Study of Cultural Patrimony, has extensively studied and excavated sites from the Wari culture, which flourished in Peru's southern highlands from 500 to 1200 A.D.

Part of the temple was destroyed by dynamite blasts in the early 20th century, when the site was used as a stone quarry.

The roadway, buried for hundreds of years under about three feet of soil, is believed to have formed part of a network connecting Sacsayhuaman's buildings, according to Camacho.

Archaeologists are also busy unearthing an advanced hydraulic system, which may have been used to supply water to Cuzco during the Inca empire.

The team also believes the Killke built the irrigation system, later used and expanded by the Incas. Remnants of Killke ceramics are scattered throughout the site.

The new excavations, directed by Cuzco's National Culture Institute, began in June 2007 and will continue for another five years, Camacho said.

___

[Konorg]

not really....but this news piece made me think of "Red Nails"....

Pre-Inca temple discovered in Peru
By ANDREW WHALEN, Associated Press Writer Fri Mar 14, 7:09 PM ET

LIMA, Peru - Archaeologists have discovered the ruins of an ancient temple, roadway and irrigation systems at a famed fortress overlooking the Inca capital of Cuzco, according to officials involved with the dig.

The temple on the periphery of the Sacsayhuaman fortress casts added light on pre-Inca cultures of Peru, showing that the site had religious as well as military aims, according to researchers.

It includes 11 rooms thought to have held mummies and idols, lead archaeologist Oscar Rodriguez told The Associated Press.

The team of archaeologists that made the discoveries believes the structures predated the Inca empire but were then significantly developed and expanded.

"It's from both the Inca and pre-Inca cultures; it has a sequence," Washington Camacho, director of the Sacsayhuaman Archaeological Park, told the AP on Thursday. "The Incas entered and changed the form of the temple, as it initially had a more rustic architecture."

Archaeologists are still waiting for carbon dating tests, but Camacho said their calculations about the facilities' age are supported by historical references such as ceramics and construction style.

Previous carbon-14 dating of Sacsayhuaman revealed that the Killke culture constructed the fortress in the 1100s, said Peruvian archaeologist Luis Lumbreras, former director of Peru's National Culture Institute and an expert on Cuzco's pre-Incan cultures. He was not involved in the dig.

The Killke occupied the region from 900 to 1200 A.D., prior to the arrival of the Incas.

"These recent discoveries add to our knowledge of Sacsayhuaman, confirming again the aggregate nature of the fortress," Lumbreras told The Associated Press.

The Inca empire, based in the ancient city of Cuzco, flourished along the western edge of South America during the 1400s, prior to the arrival of the Spanish.

Today, Cuzco is Peru's main tourism hub and a launching point for visitors to the jungle-shrouded ruins of Machu Picchu, 40 miles northwest.

The temple lies a little under a mile from zigzagging walls of the Sacsayhuaman fortress, alongside an enormous rock formation believed to be one of the fortress' burial mounds.

"The temple is one of the most important in the Sacsayhuaman site," Camacho said.

The discovery of the temple reveals "the sacred ceremonial nature of the Killke," Lumbreras said. "Previously we thought Sacsayhuaman was simply a military fortification, but we now see it was a very complex ceremonial center.

Lumbreras, now working with Peru's Institute for the Study of Cultural Patrimony, has extensively studied and excavated sites from the Wari culture, which flourished in Peru's southern highlands from 500 to 1200 A.D.

Part of the temple was destroyed by dynamite blasts in the early 20th century, when the site was used as a stone quarry.

The roadway, buried for hundreds of years under about three feet of soil, is believed to have formed part of a network connecting Sacsayhuaman's buildings, according to Camacho.

Archaeologists are also busy unearthing an advanced hydraulic system, which may have been used to supply water to Cuzco during the Inca empire.

The team also believes the Killke built the irrigation system, later used and expanded by the Incas. Remnants of Killke ceramics are scattered throughout the site.

The new excavations, directed by Cuzco's National Culture Institute, began in June 2007 and will continue for another five years, Camacho said.

___

Thats an interesting post.
Though I have often though of starting a Hyborian temple/religion.

Konorg

[Spartan198]

Though I have often though of starting a Hyborian temple/religion.

Konorg

If it's worshipping Ishtar,I'll be your first desciple.

[Konorg]

Though I have often though of starting a Hyborian temple/religion.

Konorg

If it's worshipping Ishtar,I'll be your first desciple.

Welcome then SpartanGlory.I've started seeking info both from the real myths/etc dealing with Ishtar and any info I can fidn about Her from the Hyborian point of view on line as well.
I figure by the time i'm finished i'll be found all the info possible both from the actual myths etc and info on the Hyborian equivalent of the Gods and Goddesses.

Konorg