7156 replies to this topic

[Garzo]

3. Conan the Barbarian (2011) is a "2011 barbarian", so to speak. In order for Conan (the barbarian) to communicate with our times, the authors of the new film had to make him a barbarian for our times, and in accordance to what is being regarded as barbarism today.

And yet people are still buying the original books and the graphic novel adaptations. Maybe they are stuck in the 1920's? And the film makers considered the character popular enough to (re)launch a movie franchise.

If anything I think people today would be much more receptive to a Conan-type "hero" with shades of grey than they would have years ago - the world is a much less black and white place for most people

I think everyone is basically correct in their views of Conan because the stories are so great and great art reflects that what the reader, viewer or listener sees in the work. Conan is a warrior who traveled foreign lands in search of fortune and glory. In that sense he is timeless, a barbarian like the Romans who slaughtered the Celts in Britain, or the Saxons who followed, or the Japanese who invaded China or the Americans who invaded Vietnam and cause havoc with their war machines in Afghanistan. Warriors will be warriors and they will always be barbaric because they will always be foreign soldiers killing in a foreign land. Perhaps the kings and presidents are the true barbarians for sending young warriors to their doom in order to fill their own coffers with gold. For the soldier or warrior on the ground, it's just about surviving and making sure your shield brothers stay alive. While Conan served in many armies, he seems to have preferred working as a freelancer, fighting for pay rather than serving some king out of naive loyalty.

I think one can be amoral but still fight to protect ones friends and family and shield brothers. Stealing treasure from the king that hires you to fight for him may be immoral, but Conan wouldn't care.

[Kortoso]

Kortoso has taken the lead in showing congruences between Campbell and Conan.

Thank you. I'd like to point out to those who haven't read Campbell that very few actual myths adhere to his outline with any fidelity.

[Arthyron]

Honestly, I think your comments are noteworthy, However, if you're posting all of this based on "feelings" and "memories" (as so many have before), you'll get nowhere. De Camp presented EH Price's views of Conan as REH's own. Most members of this forum won't tolerate "impressions" served up as "facts".

*rolls eyes* Come down off your high horse. I don't give a rat's ass if most members won't "tolerate" my impressions. I've never read DeCamp, Price, or any other pastiche author (with the exception of the recent Dark Horse comics). I've only ever read Howard. I just couldn't remember which evil magic user it was that threw the glass vial.

Check out THIS thread:
http://www.conan.com...h=1
Occam's Razor cuts in mysterious ways.
REH mentioned "forces of light" in the very first Conan yarn.

I said in *some* circumstances, I clearly acknowledged that there are sometimes overt supernatural elements. Are you even reading what I'm writing before you respond?

Campbell's "standard hero" does NOT adhere to some arbitrary moral compass. Kortoso has taken the lead in showing congruences between Campbell and Conan.

Again, who said anything about a moral compass, much less an arbitrary one? I sure didn't (at least not that I'm aware of). Again, whose posts are you responding to?...

[Kortoso]

Virtually everything in the last few posts has been addressed in other topics.

And yes, need I find the link to the proper thread for the two of you?

[Arthyron]

And yes, need I find the link to the proper thread for the two of you?

From the beginning I've been trying to discuss how certain elements of the movie plot are disingenuous to what I believe to be the essence of the literary character. I even specifically stated that these discussions about various literary themes were only tangential to my point and that I wasn't all that interested in discussing them, particularly in this thread. I'm still interested in the points I was originally discussing before the tangential discussion cropped up as it relates to the film, but so far people have only sought fit to either agree with my criticisms or nitpick about the aforementioned literary themes and my "e-cred" as a Conan afficianado.

[Ironhand]

Conan: "You can't blame a god for choosing me as his hand-picked champion. After all, He's only divine."

Edited by Ironhand, 03 February 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[vaiguy]

I was hoping for a different story than the already-been-done revenge thing.

Scene opens with a band of men on horse-top going through the jungle following a hulk looking, black haired warrior that rides a little ahead. Speaking to no one, facing always forward.
Next scene focuses on two men back in the crowd talking amongst themselves. As we pan in we hear the two men discussing a plan they are devising to kill the barbarian in his slumber
after they retrieve the treasure he hired them to help him find. The next shot is viewing us behind the leader when suddenly he throws up his left hand signaling the party to stop. He dis-mounts
from his steed, still not showing his face. He walks through the band of horses to the two men and with cat like reflexes he grabs them as he relieves the two bandits of their mounts, slamming them to the
ground. The scene now shows the terrified looks on the bandits faces as they realize they were over heard by the the barbarian. The camera now shows the face of the warrior, hard and chiseled...

Conan: By Crom, if you two curs want to have any more talks of my demise while I sleep I will tie you to a tree and let the picts have their way with you!

Bandit one: Sorry my lord, we were struck by a moment of madness.

Bandit two: Yes my lord, we will not speak of such things again, we beg your forgiveness.

The Cimmerian stands to face the crowd...

Conan: If there is a man amongst you that is not satisfied with the agreement we have for the gold face me now!

He waits a few moments but no word is muttered from the remaining party. The barbarian heads back and remounts his horse. He signals the band to move on.

Now the scene goes back to the men getting up and regathering themselves.

Bandit one: How could he have over heard us?

Bandit two: You fool! He is Conan of Cimmeria, he is not a normal man. I think it wise we not cross him again.

The camera now sees Conan from the front. Sitting tall, looking forward with a small curve of an evil smile on his face.


I don't know, its just a thought...lol

Edited by vaiguy, 03 February 2011 - 06:35 AM.

[monk]

I was hoping for a different story than the already-been-done revenge thing.

Scene opens with a band of men on horse-top going through the jungle following a hulk looking, black haired warrior that rides a little ahead. Speaking to no one, facing always forward.
Next scene focuses on two men back in the crowd talking amongst themselves. As we pan in we hear the two men discussing a plan they are devising to kill the barbarian in his slumber
after they retrieve the treasure he hired them to help him find. The next shot is viewing us behind the leader when suddenly he throws up his left hand signaling the party to stop. He dis-mounts
from his steed, still not showing his face. He walks through the band of horses to the two men and with cat like reflexes he grabs them as he relieves the two bandits of their mounts, slamming them to the
ground. The scene now shows the terrified looks on the bandits faces as they realize they were over heard by the the barbarian. The camera now shows the face of the warrior, hard and chiseled...

Conan: By Crom, if you two curs want to have any more talks of my demise while I sleep I will tie you to a tree and let the picts have their way with you!

Bandit one: Sorry my lord, we were struck by a moment of madness.

Bandit two: Yes my lord, we will not speak of such things again, we beg your forgiveness.

The Cimmerian stands to face the crowd...

Conan: If there is a man amongst you that is not satisfied with the agreement we have for the gold face me now!

He waits a few moments but no word is muttered from the remaining party. The barbarian heads back and remounts his horse. He signals the band to move on.

Now the scene goes back to the men getting up and regathering themselves.

Bandit one: How could he have over heard us?

Bandit two: You fool! He is Conan of Cimmeria, he is not a normal man. I think it wise we not cross him again.

The camera now sees Conan from the front. Sitting tall, looking forward with a small curve of an evil smile on his face.


I don't know, its just a thought...lol

no +10 vorpal sword of cleaving?

[vaiguy]

I was just making it up as I typed...I don't know what "no +10 vorpal sword of cleaving?" means...

Edited by vaiguy, 03 February 2011 - 06:44 AM.

[Arthyron]

I don't know, its just a thought...lol

I can definitely see what you mean and I agree. I think that's the best way to introduce the character because that's quite often how Howard's stories began, right in the middle of one of the adventures or a time of social/political turmoil or on a heist or what have you. No need to do a Freudian analysis of why Conan lives, strives, or slays by regressing to his childhood via flashback.

[wulfhere]

I came across this quote from director Walter Hill.

"I very purposely - more and more so every time I do a script - give characters no back story. The way you find out about these characters is by watching what they do, the way they react to stress, the way they react to situations and confrontations. In that way, character is revealed through drama rather than being explained through dialogue."

This is what we needed for Conan, not some cliche origin story.

[Kortoso]

I came across this quote from director Walter Hill.

"I very purposely - more and more so every time I do a script - give characters no back story. The way you find out about these characters is by watching what they do, the way they react to stress, the way they react to situations and confrontations. In that way, character is revealed through drama rather than being explained through dialogue."

This is what we needed for Conan, not some cliche origin story.

Not bad for a Vanir dog, Wulfhere.

[monk]

I came across this quote from director Walter Hill.

"I very purposely - more and more so every time I do a script - give characters no back story. The way you find out about these characters is by watching what they do, the way they react to stress, the way they react to situations and confrontations. In that way, character is revealed through drama rather than being explained through dialogue."

This is what we needed for Conan, not some cliche origin story.

they invented their own problem.

[Ironhand]

I came across this quote from director Walter Hill.

"I very purposely - more and more so every time I do a script - give characters no back story. The way you find out about these characters is by watching what they do, the way they react to stress, the way they react to situations and confrontations. In that way, character is revealed through drama rather than being explained through dialogue."

This is what we needed for Conan, not some cliche origin story.

I totally agree with the above.

You may be wondering why, if I agree with this, I wrote an origin story for Conan. It was intended to be a response and a repudiation of CTB.

[Taranaich]

From TV Guide:

NBC's Law & Order: SVU has conjured up one wicked guest star for an upcoming spring episode. Former Charmed witch Rose McGowan, who played the bewitching Paige on the long-running WB hit, has been cast as another kind of temptress.

"Our episode is called Bombshell and Rose McGowan is the ultimate bombshell," SVU executive producer Neal Baer told me this past weekend at the Writer's Guild Awards. "Rose plays a grifter named Cassandra who strikes swinging men who frequent sex clubs. And we're very excited to have her."

The 37-year-old beauty, once engaged to rocker Marilyn Manson, is no stranger to flirting with the dark side, having appeared in such films as Scream, The Black Dahlia, and the Death Proof segment of Grindhouse. Later this year she will be seen as the female lead in a Conan the Barbarian remake, which will spin her character off as the lead in Red Sonja.

Rose's SVU episode will also guest star Sons of Anarchy's Ryan Hurst, who previously recurred on Medium.

Edited by Taranaich, 10 February 2011 - 10:57 AM.

[johnnypt]

From TV Guide:

NBC's Law & Order: SVU has conjured up one wicked guest star for an upcoming spring episode. Former Charmed witch Rose McGowan, who played the bewitching Paige on the long-running WB hit, has been cast as another kind of temptress.

"Our episode is called Bombshell and Rose McGowan is the ultimate bombshell," SVU executive producer Neal Baer told me this past weekend at the Writer's Guild Awards. "Rose plays a grifter named Cassandra who strikes swinging men who frequent sex clubs. And we're very excited to have her."

The 37-year-old beauty, once engaged to rocker Marilyn Manson, is no stranger to flirting with the dark side, having appeared in such films as Scream, The Black Dahlia, and the Death Proof segment of Grindhouse. Later this year she will be seen as the female lead in a Conan the Barbarian remake, which will spin her character off as the lead in Red Sonja.

Rose's SVU episode will also guest star Sons of Anarchy's Ryan Hurst, who previously recurred on Medium.

How much should we bet this writer did zero investigation into what they actually wrote? McGowan appeared in both parts of Grindhouse, so if a basic mistake like gets into print, I wouldn't panic over the Red Sonja bit. But it does play into the whole popular culture idea of what Conan is all about, which is decidedly unhelpful to put it mildly. Of course, there's always the possibility since the two films are being done by the same company...nah, think good thoughts, John, think good thoughts!

[SilentEnigma]

^
And the associatons with the ill-advised 80's film "Red Sonja" (officially titled in Greece "Kalidor the Gladiator" - no kidding) don't help either.

What were they thinking? I hope Red Sonja isn't anywhere near the new Conan film.

[deuce]

^
And the associatons with the ill-advised 80's film "Red Sonja" (officially titled in Greece "Kalidor the Gladiator" - no kidding) don't help either.

What were they thinking? I hope Red Sonja isn't anywhere near the new Conan film.

We can always hope.

Welcome to the forum!

[deuce]

I came across this quote from director Walter Hill.

"I very purposely - more and more so every time I do a script - give characters no back story. The way you find out about these characters is by watching what they do, the way they react to stress, the way they react to situations and confrontations. In that way, character is revealed through drama rather than being explained through dialogue."

This is what we needed for Conan, not some cliche origin story.

Great quote, Wulfhere. Hill is highly underappreciated. HE should've been given the director nod. But no, that would've nudged things in the "quality" direction.

[Garzo]

Rose McGowan on 'Conan the Barbarian'

Regarding McGowan's quote, I assume she actually meant or probably actually said "an Electra complex," as in the daughter of Agamemnon. (Whatever happened to knowledgeable reporters? My god, the blogosphere is destroying journalism as we know it.)

"Conan the Barbarian is so completely different from the orignal, and really anything out there. I know it looks like another sword movie, but the world that been created Conan's world, it's pretty insane."

"It's a hard R but it's really beautiful, and Stephen Lang who was in Avatar, he plays my farther and lets just say I have an electric complex, people can look that up in the dictonary"

Comicbookmovie.com offers this somewhat newer sounding synopsiss that may go some way in pleasing die-hard fans:

After his father is murdered and village destroyed, Conan (Jason Momoa) ventures into an unforgiving world where he survives as a thief, pirate, and warrior. On his path of wanton adventure and women, Conan chances upon the warlord responsible his tribe’s destruction. As he tracks Khalar Zym (Stephen Lang), Conan battles monsters, Zym's henchmen, and Marique (Rose McGowan), a powerful witch.

Source: http://www.comicbook...s/news/?a=29655

I actually like that. Much less revenge driven, more coincidence, more destiny. Conan does not devote his life to avenging his father like some crazed Hyborean Inigo Montoya. Perhaps it is the hand of a god that guides his path ...

Edited by Garzo, 09 February 2011 - 11:52 PM.