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How Would You Redo Janissa?


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#1 LordYam

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

I actually felt that Janissa had potential as the tragic figure who tried to get freedom only to inadvertently trade one form of slavery for another, one slave master for another. The bone woman was an intriguing villain while at the same time the idea that Conan could try to persuade her to live for herself like he does with himself. I could imagine a myth arc where Conan encounters at different parts at his life (once at the age of 16, another in his late 20s, another 30s) culminating in a final titanic clash with the bone woman, wherein 2 things either happen. Either she dies, or she is left uncertain trying to forge a new path for herself.

The main thing I had in mind

Janissa's grandfather was a Zingaran Adventurer who found his way to the Vanirmen, and ultimately found himself in love with their way of life. Janissa is therefore mixed race between vanir and zingaran (I liked the idea of mixed race characters because in real life keeping races pure is actually the worst thing you do, since it ultimately leads to inbreeding, whereas interracial marriage leads to greater diversity and a more robust society and the only ones who really deny this tend to be racist.). Her village was butchered by a rival raid, but the Bone Woman saved her and spent ten years training her into a killing machine who had little independence or emotion. She's three years older than Conan and managed to have somewhat of a reputation before she and Conan meet.

Her training regiment would involve less demon rape and more fighting men (sort of like sparring in a dojo, where they held nothing back, but refrained from outright killing you) and lasted till she was about 15. The bone woman I see as having sinister plans, and Janissa is meant to be her hand. She cripples all who are threat to her agenda (which means undermining those like Thoth Amon.

But still, that's just me. I'm wondering how anyone else would have done this mysterious assassin

Edited by LordYam, 13 August 2012 - 01:11 AM.


#2 Boot

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:27 AM

Yeah, I thought Janissa had potential, too. But, I also thought her story line was the weakest I've read in the DH comics. It didn't come across to me at all as a story that should play out during the Hyborian Age. It seemed to me more like a (albeit quite dark) super hero origing story in a Marvel comic. If you think about it, it's not too far off from what Batman did in Batman begins--with Bruce Wayne being trained by the League of Shadows and Ra's Al Ghul standing in for the Bone Woman.

I didn't like the ultra powerful telepathy or the magic device with ultra powerful range that allowed the Bone Woman to communicate with her minion. It was "too fantasy" for my tastes.

The demon rapes were the one thing that did remind me that Janissa story was set in the gritty, dark, Hyborian Age. It affected me when I read that. I was horrified. I felt for Janissa. Most of the rest of the story arc, I rolled my eyes and hoped that the tone would be corrected. Luckily, it was.

#3 LordYam

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:32 AM

Demon rape is implausible, slightly sexist, and also this predates Ras by about 5 moths (Hanumar road arc was January 2005-March) I like the idea of a dark assassin, whom conan is trying to encourage to leave a toxic relationship with a horrible mentor

#4 Boot

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:45 PM

Demon rape is implausible, slightly sexist,


Implausible? For a tale set during the Hyborian Age?

And sexist? It's a Conan tale. Damn right it's sexist...and macho, gritty, and pulpy.

#5 Officer Aggro

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

I find that the best thing to do is to keep it simple. Hollywood has felt the need to weave bogus revenge stories into Conan's background when his true history is far more interesting - he left Cimmeria because he was struck with wanderlust. I feel similarly about Janissa. While I still like her character to some degree, the far-fetched demon rape background was a bit much. Had she simply decided to join some assassin's guild or attracted the attention of a master who saw potential in her, the character might have been more widely accepted.
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#6 Slashing Sword

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 02:35 PM

Never liked the character. Poor woman version of Red Sonja. Glad it was ditched.

#7 Kortoso

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

I would lose the whole mention of rape. It's a dangerous subject, even with the right intentions. It doesn't belong in any sane fantasy.

#8 Officer Aggro

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:49 PM

Never liked the character. Poor woman version of Red Sonja. Glad it was ditched.


That's fine, but if you absolutely had to keep her and you had the option to change her background, what would you alter to make her better?
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#9 Lunatic

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:04 PM

I liked the character. Why redo?

#10 Taranaich

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:09 PM

And sexist? It's a Conan tale. Damn right it's sexist...


Better not let Valeria hear you say that. Or Zelata. Or Yasmina... :ph34r:

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#11 Slashing Sword

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:06 AM


Never liked the character. Poor woman version of Red Sonja. Glad it was ditched.


That's fine, but if you absolutely had to keep her and you had the option to change her background, what would you alter to make her better?


If I absolutely had to keep her, here would be my preferences:

- OK: her background to rebel against her father and desire to get more strength and deadly skill with blades
- OK: for her to eventually become an assassin. In fact, this would be an intriguing aspect of the character.
- NOT OK: for her to get the "strength of a man"... I would prefer her to develop just blade skills and may be some fighting and acrobatic skills
- NOT OK: for her to seek bone woman to get these skills, I'd rather see her seek some expert in the area and get that training
- NOT OK: for her to be raped by demons to get these skills... this is a pretty stupid concept, IMO. I'm not saying rape couldn't have place in the fantasy world as someone else has pointed. It is a reality and can be dealt accordingly. After all Red Sonja was raped. How does getting raped by increasing number of demons every night help gain these skills??? She apparently "trained herself" in order to protect herself against the demons. This all does not make sense. The bone woman eventually helped her by advising her on skills and enhanced her power with sorcery.
- NOT OK: for her to be equal to Conan in sparring. This goes to the above point of her having "strength of a man". I'd rather see "deceive" Conan and use some trickery and some sword skills but not "strength". I'd also like to see her bested at least once by Conan to indicate she is after all just a woman with some skills.
- OK: for her to be in servitude to her "owner" or "trainer" (based on some modified plot of her past how she gets stuck with "someone")

Edited by Slashing Sword, 15 August 2012 - 07:06 AM.


#12 KG Thunder

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:53 AM

I'd also like to see her bested at least once by Conan to indicate she is after all just a woman with some skills.


What's the point of having a strong female character if she's only 'just a woman with some skills'? Couldn't one argue that Conan is just a man with some skills? He should obviously be stronger, but I'd be fine with a her having better sword skills/technique than him, especially since he's still pretty young at the point when they meet. It would be a nice reminder that Conan is a man, not a super hero, and that he's not the only warrior worth fearing in the Hyborian Age.

Edited by KG Thunder, 15 August 2012 - 08:55 AM.


#13 Taranaich

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:31 PM

I'm not a fan of Janissa for all the reasons pointed out. However, even the parts I do like (her being more skilled than Conan in swordplay, strong as a man, etc) I dislike, because it takes a lot of Valeria's thunder very early in Conan's career. I definitely feel there's room for more warrior women than just Valeria in the Hyborian Age (within reason: it would be incongruous to have dozens of them, otherwise Valeria's uniqueness is lost) but at the same time, it would be good to make her distinct in some way. So here's how I'd do Janissa:

Janissa was born to a wealthy Zingaran family. She rejected the courtly lifestyle set forward for her, always at odds with her father, who wanted to marry her off to a powerful nobleman. She secretely trained with a sympathetic Zingaran sword-master, and learned much more than she was supposed to: politics, history, her family's dark past involving a mysterious "bone woman." She started to make subtle power plays against her father, manipulating events and circumstances to undermine him. Unfortunately, her father discovered her schemes, and punished her by killing the sword-master in a rigged duel (poisoned blade, etc) for her "honor," and had the servants who aided her beheaded. She swore to kill him for this, but her father was a powerful man, and she could not sway the loyalty of his guards, vassals and knights. In desperation, she seeks out the Bone Woman to enact vengeance. The Bone Woman teaches her terrible dark arts and combat skills, imbuing her with terrible vitality, giving her the power to destroy her father - but at the price of servitude, and the cost to her soul which all dealings with black sorcery demand. After Janissa slew her father, the true magnitude of her choice was revealed, as the Bone Woman ordered Janissa to wipe out her entire family, leaving no trace of her bloodline: she was to torch her home, destroy all her possessions. There would be no evidence that her family ever existed. When she killed her domineering father, she thought she would finally be free, but she realised that she had simply substituted one cruel master for another, one more terrible and monstrous. And now Janissa became the agent of a monster.

This way we still have the dark side of Janissa's past, but desperation and rage drove her to make a veritable deal with the devil. I never bought the idea that Janissa would have to resort to sorcery just to learn how to fight, otherwise, how did Valeria manage? Similarly, none of that demon business: I fail to see how that could possibly be an effective warrior training tool. True, there might be a bit much of Dark Agnes and Bran Mak Morn in there, but that hardly stopped Busiek borrowing from Red Sonja, and most of those things are fairly universal, and I feel different enough. There'd also be some history between Janissa's family and the Bone Woman beyond their present circumstances (she might be a distant ancestor, or have helped her family gain their power in the dim past, whatnot), strengthening the link.

Also, she'd have a different costume.

Posted Image

That's just silly. I actually think it would be better for her to be topless than to constantly be on the verge of falling out of her top in a combat situation.

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#14 Lunatic

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:49 PM

That's just silly. I actually think it would be better for her to be topless than to constantly be on the verge of falling out of her top in a combat situation.


No no no...thats the whole idea! its perfect. :P

#15 LordYam

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:27 PM

Taraniach's is interesting, but it would make her even darker than conan is at times. I felt from the REH readings that Conan would be a type 4 or type 5 anti hero (namely the least heroic types possible without being a full blown villain) in the Conan does have small elements of honor and compassion, but that they very rarely come into play. Note how in Hanumar road he screws Janissa over, and he advocates simply leaving Davo to die due to expediency. Other than that thing with Iniri i can't really recall much generous or truly selfless acts. I like the idea of him trying to encourage her "live for yourself, and try to fight bone woman's control." The idea of the bone woman as a truly vile sorceror conan encounters at various times in his life. I think that he would encounter Janissa at three times in his life, and in the final encounter he and Janissa would work to take down the bone woman and end her plans, with Janissa enacting a bloody revenge on the bone woman.

#16 Slashing Sword

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:33 PM


I'd also like to see her bested at least once by Conan to indicate she is after all just a woman with some skills.


What's the point of having a strong female character if she's only 'just a woman with some skills'? Couldn't one argue that Conan is just a man with some skills? He should obviously be stronger, but I'd be fine with a her having better sword skills/technique than him, especially since he's still pretty young at the point when they meet. It would be a nice reminder that Conan is a man, not a super hero, and that he's not the only warrior worth fearing in the Hyborian Age.

If by "strong" you mean physical strength, that is exactly I disliked about the character. No, Conan is not just a man... and if I have to explain that than you probably are on wrong message board.

#17 KG Thunder

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:48 AM



I'd also like to see her bested at least once by Conan to indicate she is after all just a woman with some skills.


What's the point of having a strong female character if she's only 'just a woman with some skills'? Couldn't one argue that Conan is just a man with some skills? He should obviously be stronger, but I'd be fine with a her having better sword skills/technique than him, especially since he's still pretty young at the point when they meet. It would be a nice reminder that Conan is a man, not a super hero, and that he's not the only warrior worth fearing in the Hyborian Age.

If by "strong" you mean physical strength, that is exactly I disliked about the character. No, Conan is not just a man... and if I have to explain that than you probably are on wrong message board.


I mean that he has no super powers or magic. He is a strong, skilled warrior with a ton of good luck, but he's still only human.

#18 Ironhand

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:03 AM

Taraniach's is interesting, but it would make her even darker than conan is at times. I felt from the REH readings that Conan would be a type 4 or type 5 anti hero (namely the least heroic types possible without being a full blown villain) in the Conan does have small elements of honor and compassion, but that they very rarely come into play. Note how in Hanumar road he screws Janissa over, and he advocates simply leaving Davo to die due to expediency. Other than that thing with Iniri i can't really recall much generous or truly selfless acts. I like the idea of him trying to encourage her "live for yourself, and try to fight bone woman's control." The idea of the bone woman as a truly vile sorceror conan encounters at various times in his life. I think that he would encounter Janissa at three times in his life, and in the final encounter he and Janissa would work to take down the bone woman and end her plans, with Janissa enacting a bloody revenge on the bone woman.

Conan is not a hero in the chivalrous sense of the courtly Middle Ages, but he is exactly a hero in the Ancient through Dark Ages sense.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
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#19 Slashing Sword

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:14 AM

LOL!!

If that is the case...I absolutely don't want the costume to be channged!


Also, she'd have a different costume.

Posted Image

That's just silly. I actually think it would be better for her to be topless than to constantly be on the verge of falling out of her top in a combat situation.



#20 KG Thunder

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:32 AM

I'm not a fan of Janissa for all the reasons pointed out. However, even the parts I do like (her being more skilled than Conan in swordplay, strong as a man, etc) I dislike, because it takes a lot of Valeria's thunder very early in Conan's career. I definitely feel there's room for more warrior women than just Valeria in the Hyborian Age (within reason: it would be incongruous to have dozens of them, otherwise Valeria's uniqueness is lost) but at the same time, it would be good to make her distinct in some way. So here's how I'd do Janissa:

Janissa was born to a wealthy Zingaran family. She rejected the courtly lifestyle set forward for her, always at odds with her father, who wanted to marry her off to a powerful nobleman. She secretely trained with a sympathetic Zingaran sword-master, and learned much more than she was supposed to: politics, history, her family's dark past involving a mysterious "bone woman." She started to make subtle power plays against her father, manipulating events and circumstances to undermine him. Unfortunately, her father discovered her schemes, and punished her by killing the sword-master in a rigged duel (poisoned blade, etc) for her "honor," and had the servants who aided her beheaded. She swore to kill him for this, but her father was a powerful man, and she could not sway the loyalty of his guards, vassals and knights. In desperation, she seeks out the Bone Woman to enact vengeance. The Bone Woman teaches her terrible dark arts and combat skills, imbuing her with terrible vitality, giving her the power to destroy her father - but at the price of servitude, and the cost to her soul which all dealings with black sorcery demand. After Janissa slew her father, the true magnitude of her choice was revealed, as the Bone Woman ordered Janissa to wipe out her entire family, leaving no trace of her bloodline: she was to torch her home, destroy all her possessions. There would be no evidence that her family ever existed. When she killed her domineering father, she thought she would finally be free, but she realised that she had simply substituted one cruel master for another, one more terrible and monstrous. And now Janissa became the agent of a monster.

This way we still have the dark side of Janissa's past, but desperation and rage drove her to make a veritable deal with the devil. I never bought the idea that Janissa would have to resort to sorcery just to learn how to fight, otherwise, how did Valeria manage? Similarly, none of that demon business: I fail to see how that could possibly be an effective warrior training tool. True, there might be a bit much of Dark Agnes and Bran Mak Morn in there, but that hardly stopped Busiek borrowing from Red Sonja, and most of those things are fairly universal, and I feel different enough. There'd also be some history between Janissa's family and the Bone Woman beyond their present circumstances (she might be a distant ancestor, or have helped her family gain their power in the dim past, whatnot), strengthening the link.

Also, she'd have a different costume.

Posted Image

That's just silly. I actually think it would be better for her to be topless than to constantly be on the verge of falling out of her top in a combat situation.


Actually it might give her the edge of distraction. During battles her opponites would be constantly staring at her rack like "Come on...come on...so close..." :D