[The Shadow]

Was there a real warrior named Conan?

[korak]

Now that you mention it, I remember than Howard did borrow the name Conan from a Conan or Conans in Gaelic legends of Ireland and Britain. Anyone know any details about that?

[Jaybird]

No particular person, just a common (but not really all that common) name.

[Cadogan]

Back in the 4th century, General Maximus (yes, there was a real one!) helped settle what is known as Brittany, with the help of a King Conan. Also known as Conan Meriadog.

There were later several Dukes of Brittany named Conan. Conan IV had to face several revolts from his own nobles. To sustain the unrest, the duke appealed to the help of king Henry II of England, who, in return, demanded the engagement of Conan’s only daughter and heiress Constance with his son Geoffrey Plantagenet.

So, in answer to the question: Yes! There were several real warriors named Conan.

Oh yeah, there is also a Conan in Irish mythology, but he is something of a idiot. Also, several Conn's figure into Irish myths.

[Roquefort Raider]

Cadogan, on May 30 2005, 06:27 PM, said:

There were later several Dukes of Brittany named Conan.

One of them can be seen on the Bayeux tapestry, considered by some to be the first comic-book. Duke Conan had to flee his city of Dol when it was attacked by the Norman army of William the conqueror.

[Jaybird]

That's all fine and dandy, but they aren't what Howard had in mind when he wrote Conan. Like I said it's just a name. George and John are common names in our time... I wonder how many American Presidents have been named John or George?

[Roquefort Raider]

Yep, any Dick, Tom and Harry could be president

(with apologies to presidents Nixon, Roosevelt and Truman).*









(*with apologies to the writers of Futurama, too).

[Mikey_C]

I always thought he might have got the name from Arthur Conan Doyle.

[Jaybird]

I've never heard of him readin any of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

[korak]

Howard was an expert on Celtic history--- you can be sure that his choice of the name Conan was a tip of the hat to the legendary heroes of that name.

[Jaybird]

I've never heard of him readin any of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Sorry my PC F-ed up. No Message.

This post has been edited by Jaybird: 31 May 2005 - 12:44 AM

[Kortoso]

There are actually two Conans in Irish legend, plus the one from the Bayeux Tapestry, who was a Breton.

[Mikey_C]

Jaybird, on May 31 2005, 12:42 AM, said:

I've never heard of him readin any of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

Near the end of his life, Howard wrote to the renowned fantasist H.P. Lovecraft, with whom he corresponded regularly, about his favorite writers. These included Arthur Conan Doyle, Jack London, Mark Twain, Sax Rohmer, Talbot Mundy, Harold Lamb, H. Rider Haggard, Rudyard Kipling, Sir Walter Scott, Ambrose Bierce, Edgar Allan Poe and Lovecraft.

A Short Biography of REH

Admittedly it doesn't prove that's where he got the name from...

[PainBrush]

Jaybird said:

That's all fine and dandy, but they aren't what Howard had in mind when he wrote Conan. Like I said it's just a name.

Who could 'really' say what Howard had in mind when he wrote ? One thing that IS POSITIVE is that he was VERY well versed in folklore, religion, mythology & history in general , and of the celts/gaels in particular . He also definitely did read a lot of Arthur Conan Doyle ( thx to MikeC above for the ex. info )A lot of his characters & places were inspired by & at least named after real historical places/characters of legend & from old pagan religions . Old stories from WAYback in the U.K. (or as it was once referred to : Great Brythunia haha ) Names Like Cormac MacArt (son of Arthur the son of Conan or Con'n), Crom , Mannanan MacLear(lir , Llyr) Morrigan Macha & Nemain , Bel , Mithra & numerous other names I won't take the time to look up right at this minute . Crom for 1 example was an old druid deity they sacrificed their children to . & any stranger/wayfarers that would be unlucky enough to wander into town during a Samhain (halloween) festival to get robbed & dosed with hemlock in their mead & wake up tied inside the wickerman , draped in Holly , oak-leaves & mistletoe about to be burned alive to Crom-Cruak so they could have good crops next year !!! Ya gotta love British hospitality ! haha . Spot o' tea & crumpets & yer ass on a spit over a barbecue . Actually Crom was around even before the druids moved in , & that may be as far back as when the Isles first broke loose of the Euro land-mass ! Do a websearch for the wicker-man, druids , the horned god , even hemlock , those will get you started on dozens of other names that you'll recognise from Howards works . Here's a link for an interesting little bit on Crom .
http://www.pantheon....rom_cruach.html

-edit , I just looked up this old topic , this post & the replies to it & want to point out right here -I have said nothing at all about 'specifically' Ireland , I said above 'U.K.' & 'Brit' , Ireland 'was' once & part of is still is 'U.K.' . But I hope nobody is ignorant enough of what I was talking about to think that there were only Celts , Gaels or anybody else in 'only' one of the Isles 'alone' & not all in , over & through all the rest of the Isles too to some extent . INCLUDING the Druids I did mention who originated on the MAINLAND CONTINENT of Europe & not even in the Isles & who were also from in the part of 'BRITAIN' that is now 'FRANCE' as well as Iberia , Gaul etc. . There is a difference between 'Britain' 'U.K.' & in 'England' , but I understand any confusion in what I had said & meant

This post has been edited by PAINBRUSH: 12 April 2007 - 07:13 AM

[matsellah]

Cadogan, on May 30 2005, 11:27 AM, said:

Oh yeah, there is also a Conan in Irish mythology, but he is something of a idiot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And he can be seen late nights during the week on NBC.

[Red Hand]

Quote

Old stories from WAYback in the U.K. (or as it was once referred to : Great Brythunia haha ) Names Like Cormac MacArt (son of Arthur the son of Conan or Con'n), Crom , Mannanan MacLear(lir , Llyr) Morrigan Macha & Nemain , Bel , Mithra & numerous other names I won't take the time to look up right at this minute . Crom for 1 example was an old druid deity they sacrificed their children to . & any stranger/wayfarers that would be unlucky enough to wander into town during a Samhain (halloween) festival to get robbed & dosed with hemlock in their mead & wake up tied inside the wickerman , draped in Holly , oak-leaves & mistletoe about to be burned alive to Crom-Cruak so they could have good crops next year !!! Ya gotta love British hospitality !

Actually, these aren't "UK" names/stories. Names like Cormac mac Art are straight out of Irish history (not British or even celtic British... Ireland and Britain are very distinct historically). Cormac mac Art was a semi legendary/semi historical High-King of ancient Ireland. Also, Crom, Mannanan mac Lir, the Morrigan, etc. were an Irish gods, not British. This is not to say that the celts in Britain didn't have equivalents to these gods... they did. And the names may even have been similar, but the names listed above come down to us through Irish legend/myth. So being sacrificed to Crom Cruach at Magh Slecht (which is in County Cavan, Ireland) wouldn't have been and act of British hospitality (or lack thereof)... but one of the pagan Irish!

Additionally, Mithra was not and Irish/British or even celtic god, but an ancient Iranian god. (Mithra)

As to the general topic of the thread. Conan was/is a fairly common Irish name. Conan Maol was a character out of one of Ireland's greatest heroic cylcles (the Fenian Cycle which revolved around the great deeds of Fionn mac Cumhail... or as he's more commonly anglicized, Finn mac Cool). The name Conan itself means "wolf" according to some sources.

This post has been edited by Red Hand: 21 August 2005 - 05:04 PM

[Kortoso]

To be fair, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a medieval novel (my addled brain tells me it was The White Company), and it's pretty clear that REH read that.

[Valin]

matsellah, on Aug 21 2005, 07:02 AM, said:

Cadogan, on May 30 2005, 11:27 AM, said:

Oh yeah, there is also a Conan in Irish mythology, but he is something of a idiot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And he can be seen late nights during the week on NBC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And when he takes over the Tonight Show in a few years he'll be the King of Late Night, so we'll have another King Conan.

[PainBrush]

Red Hand said:

Actually, these aren't "UK" names/stories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO . 'Actually' , Anguilla , Brit Antarctic Territory , Ascension Island , Australia , Bermuda , Brit Indian Ocean Territory , Virgin Islands , Canada , Cayman Islands , Cyprus sovereign base areas , England , Falkland Islands , Gibraltar , Montserrat , New Zealand , Pitcairn Island , St Helena , Scotland , South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands , Tasmania , Tristan da Cunha , Turk and Caicos Islands , Wales , oh, AND Ireland = the "U.K." (United Kingdom) or before I'm corrected , 'the commonwealth' . & so as I said , -" Old stories from wayback in the U.K." & I'm sure there are a few I forgot in that list as this was off the top of my head.

Red Hand said:

Names like Cormac mac Art are straight out of Irish history (not British or even celtic British... Ireland and Britain are very distinct historically)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I realise that quite profoundly as I have Irish , Scottish & even Norman bloodlines in my family tree , I am related to 'the' Bruces . I did not say the word British anywhere in my post except for joking about 'British hospitality" in reference to the Druids , who contrary to 'some' opinions were not 'grounded' to merely Ireland , but lived ALL THROUGH 'BRITAIN' (England Scotland , Wales , Ireland ) & even on mainland Europe . but thanks again for your expertise & pointing out....

Red Hand said:

Cormac mac Art was a semi legendary/semi historical High-King of ancient Ireland.  Also, Crom, Mannanan mac Lir, the Morrigan, etc.  were an Irish gods, not British.  This is not to say that the celts in Britain didn't have equivalents to these gods... they did.  And the names may even have been similar, but the names listed above come down to us through Irish legend/myth.  So being sacrificed to Crom Cruach at Magh Slecht (which is in County Cavan, Ireland) wouldn't have been and act of British hospitality (or lack thereof)... but one of the pagan Irish! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say anything about MaghSlecht in Ireland , as I stated above the Druids were not limited to Ireland alone, I also said that 'Crom' even pre-dates the druids, & so I was not even talking about them in particular really .

Red Hand said:

Additionally, Mithra was not and Irish/British or even celtic god, but an ancient Iranian god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I should have seperated the mention of Bel , Mithra & any or all Gods/Legends/Myths by country so as not to seem as if I know of them but know nothing about them . I could go well deep into the Babylonian Mystery religion & the origins of Judeo-Christianity & the appropriation of dozens of cultures like Rome , Iraq , Ireland etc.'s pagan deitys into the pantheons of Catholicism . The adoption of Germanic/Norse myths & pagan religions into modern Religions & even the names of our days on the calendar . I wasn't trying to post a precise detailed account of the entire rise of western civilisation & religion in one piece. I was simply making a 'quick' post in response to the question asked above if there really was a Conan . & a brief comment on the fact that Robert Howard was WELL versed in history so he 'did' undoubtedly name Conan after a 'real' historical entity, as someone above said otherwise.
I had to catch myself before posting this & re-work it a bit so as not to sound too snotty at being 'incorrectly' corrected . I wasn't trying to be innacurate in my above post , just brief. & by the tone of your post i hope I didn't offend in my post by calling Irish 'Brythunians' , as I said above I am celt myself . I add an analogy here , also I am "Native-American" to put it 'politically correct' , or Cherokee to be precise , but I refer to myself as an 'Indian' & don't fault others for saying the same , there's a lot more important things in life to worry about .

This post has been edited by PAINBRUSH: 22 August 2005 - 03:55 AM

[Kail, or The Beekan]

PAINBRUSH, on Aug 22 2005, 12:51 PM, said:

Red Hand said:

Actually, these aren't "UK" names/stories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO . 'Actually' , Anguilla , Brit Antarctic Territory , Ascension Island , Australia , Bermuda , Brit Indian Ocean Territory , Virgin Islands , Canada , Cayman Islands , Cyprus sovereign base areas , England , Falkland Islands , Gibraltar , Montserrat , New Zealand , Pitcairn Island , St Helena , Scotland , South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands , Tasmania , Tristan da Cunha , Turk and Caicos Islands , Wales , oh, AND Ireland = the "U.K." (United Kingdom) or before I'm corrected , 'the commonwealth' . & so as I said , -" Old stories from wayback in the U.K." & I'm sure there are a few I forgot in that list as this was off the top of my head.

Red Hand said:

Names like Cormac mac Art are straight out of Irish history (not British or even celtic British... Ireland and Britain are very distinct historically)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I realise that quite profoundly as I have Irish , Scottish & even Norman bloodlines in my family tree , I am related to 'the' Bruces . I did not say the word British anywhere in my post except for joking about 'British hospitality" in reference to the Druids , who contrary to 'some' opinions were not 'grounded' to merely Ireland , but lived ALL THROUGH 'BRITAIN' (England Scotland , Wales , Ireland ) & even on mainland Europe . but thanks again for your expertise & pointing out....

Red Hand said:

Cormac mac Art was a semi legendary/semi historical High-King of ancient Ireland.  Also, Crom, Mannanan mac Lir, the Morrigan, etc.  were an Irish gods, not British.  This is not to say that the celts in Britain didn't have equivalents to these gods... they did.  And the names may even have been similar, but the names listed above come down to us through Irish legend/myth.  So being sacrificed to Crom Cruach at Magh Slecht (which is in County Cavan, Ireland) wouldn't have been and act of British hospitality (or lack thereof)... but one of the pagan Irish! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say anything about MaghSlecht in Ireland , as I stated above the Druids were not limited to Ireland alone, I also said that 'Crom' even pre-dates the druids, & so I was not even talking about them in particular really .

Red Hand said:

Additionally, Mithra was not and Irish/British or even celtic god, but an ancient Iranian god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I should have seperated the mention of Bel , Mithra & any or all Gods/Legends/Myths by country so as not to seem as if I know of them but know nothing about them . I could go well deep into the Babylonian Mystery religion & the origins of Judeo-Christianity & the appropriation of dozens of cultures like Rome , Iraq , Ireland etc.'s pagan deitys into the pantheons of Catholicism . The adoption of Germanic/Norse myths & pagan religions into modern Religions & even the names of our days on the calendar . I wasn't trying to post a precise detailed account of the entire rise of western civilisation & religion in one piece. I was simply making a 'quick' post in response to the question asked above if there really was a Conan . & a brief comment on the fact that Robert Howard was WELL versed in history so he 'did' undoubtedly name Conan after a 'real' historical entity, as someone above said otherwise.
I had to catch myself before posting this & re-work it a bit so as not to sound too snotty at being 'incorrectly' corrected . I wasn't trying to be innacurate in my above post , just brief. & by the tone of your post i hope I didn't offend in my post by calling Irish 'Brythunians' , as I said above I am celt myself . I add an analogy here , also I am "Native-American" to put it 'politically correct' , or Cherokee to be precise , but I refer to myself as an 'Indian' & don't fault others for saying the same , there's a lot more important things in life to worry about .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry, Brush, you didn't sound too snotty, but can I offer the following -
Many people are VERY sensitive when it comes to any indication of bias against their individual heritage, and , to someone from outwith those places they may seem overly-sensitive.
In Scotland there is a commonplace observation that when a Scottish person, (or Irish or Welsh), does well at, say, sports the media, usually based in England, will acclaim them as British, but when they do badly they revert to their own nationality.
With exposure to American news programs on satellite TV I often find myself disappointed when reporters seem unable to differentiate between 'England' and 'Britain'. They often talk about 'Britain' fighting Germany in WW2 and then they say that 'England' stood alone, as if both were one and the same thing. A Canadian friend has spoken of a similar annoyance when he is assumed to be an American.
Such annoyances may seem petty to others not from these places, but when it constantly happens we tend to jump on any slights, real or imagined.
I don't know if that's what inspired Red Hand's reply, but if it was it wouldn't be an uncommon reaction.

This post has been edited by Kail, or The Beekan: 22 August 2005 - 05:15 AM