am thinking to go and see it again. i love old mechanical gadgets and mechanisms, and it was also very cool to see how ERB really had such a profound influence on so much sci fi/fantasy...it's pretty incredible that all of that came before this.
wish this had happened for REH.
John Carter (Of Mars): The Movie
Started by Kane, Jul 31 2004 11:27 PM
893 replies to this topic
#541
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:55 PM
"I live, I BURN WITH LIFE, I love, I slay, and am content."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA
"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA
"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."
#542
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:05 PM
am thinking to go and see it again. i love old mechanical gadgets and mechanisms, and it was also very cool to see how ERB really had such a profound influence on so much sci fi/fantasy...it's pretty incredible that all of that came before this.
wish this had happened for REH.
Isn't that the truth. I'll be taking my son to see it again next week. He love it so much he wants to go back and so do I.
As a collector, this is great time as the movie is bringing some scarce stuff out of the woodwork. But prices aren't really seeing any bump, maybe because the movie is performing so poorly. I just won this tough pulp from 1922 a few minutes ago on eBay at about half the price I expected to pay and about $200 cheaper than the last copy on eBay a year ago (in a similar grade). So investment-minded collectors don't seem to be seeing much potential in the franchise I'm afraid. On the other hand, that means bargains for me!
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#543
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:14 PM
Isn't this thing basically just a remake of Star wars with a couple hundred million bucks worth of computer graphics thrown in for
the video game crowd?
An Australian TV critic said something similar... somewhat missing the point I feel.
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#544
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:19 PM
i saw the film and I give it a thumbs up. 
#545
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:56 PM
am thinking to go and see it again. i love old mechanical gadgets and mechanisms, and it was also very cool to see how ERB really had such a profound influence on so much sci fi/fantasy...it's pretty incredible that all of that came before this.
wish this had happened for REH.
Isn't that the truth. I'll be taking my son to see it again next week. He love it so much he wants to go back and so do I.
As a collector, this is great time as the movie is bringing some scarce stuff out of the woodwork. But prices aren't really seeing any bump, maybe because the movie is performing so poorly. I just won this tough pulp from 1922 a few minutes ago on eBay at about half the price I expected to pay and about $200 cheaper than the last copy on eBay a year ago (in a similar grade). So investment-minded collectors don't seem to be seeing much potential in the franchise I'm afraid. On the other hand, that means bargains for me!
love that cover.
"I live, I BURN WITH LIFE, I love, I slay, and am content."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA
"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA
"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."
#546
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#547
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:51 AM
I dunno man...all the previews make it look like star wars with all the weird computerized critters and John Carter looks like a luke skywalker clone...of course Star Wars was based on the old Sword and Planet adventures of the earlier era including John Carter, Flash Gordon, Buck rogers, etc Guess its all come full circle now!
Isn't this thing basically just a remake of Star wars with a couple hundred million bucks worth of computer graphics thrown in for
the video game crowd?
You're kidding? right?
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT judge this film by the trailers. As I mentioned in my review above, there is a feeling of a completed circle with the film, but it is a completely unique experience where the scenes from the trailers, put in context within the film, give a totally different feeling than "oh I've seen this before."
#548
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:58 AM
Domestic: $30.6 mil - Int'l: $70.6 mil - Worldwide: $101.2 mil https://twitter.com/...859568842022912
In the US, pretty darn bad, though word of mouth did help it. Worldwide, a better sign. Considering it knocked off a good chunk in 5 days, its chances of getting its production budget back after home video are probably not too bad. That abysmal marketing budget...THAT will be the write-off! I think if overseas brings it in, the chances of a lower budgeted sequel aren't out of the realm of possibility.
#549
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:15 AM
For all this talk of money, I fear we've neglected the movie. No major spoilers ahead, not yet.
There's a scene around the midway point of the movie that will probably go down as the best remembered. I won't spoil too much, but it's perfect, vicerally and emotionally. Some of the changes to Carter's backstory and character come to a head and pay off, and it's in this scene that he truly becomes ERB's Carter at last. From that point on, he's more and more the unstoppable warrior. You've probably seen the arena snippet on Youtube, but the end of that scene is so much greater. And the ending is perfect. Not quite what ERB wrote, but a great payoff for the Earth subplot, and the movie as a whole. Carter has come so far, in so many ways.
I have not yet begun to praise this film.
There's a scene around the midway point of the movie that will probably go down as the best remembered. I won't spoil too much, but it's perfect, vicerally and emotionally. Some of the changes to Carter's backstory and character come to a head and pay off, and it's in this scene that he truly becomes ERB's Carter at last. From that point on, he's more and more the unstoppable warrior. You've probably seen the arena snippet on Youtube, but the end of that scene is so much greater. And the ending is perfect. Not quite what ERB wrote, but a great payoff for the Earth subplot, and the movie as a whole. Carter has come so far, in so many ways.
I have not yet begun to praise this film.
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"
Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."
--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard
Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."
--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard
#550
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:42 AM
Today I and my Dejah Thoris went to see the John Carter of Mars movie. We really enjoyed it. More or less all the elements were there that Burroughs wrote and then some. There was the Tharks destroying the eggs that had not hatched at the incubator as mention in Burroughs story. Then there were the Fliers which look great, the Atmosphere Plant (or at less what I thought was it) and the Martians cities, which were just as we imagine them.
The movie is an acceptable for a true John Carter movie to us. We think it is a winner and just hope when the dvd comes out there will a extended version.
On the flip side to me it seemed the movie was a little rush or crammed. There was much that was not explained to the general audience, which may have not been necessary if your intention in making the film that was a one shot deal. Then your point was made. A man was transported to Mars via an alien device and saved the good guys. Sounds like “Stargate”.
Many of the audience I spoke with after the movie was over stated the movie was good, but much of it they did not understand, they just accepted it and went on. Everyone enjoyed it, but it seemed that they were not drawn into the Barsoomian lore. Which is sad, just another scifi action film. It would have been smart maybe if Disney would have taken the time to explain some aspects about the different races and the struggle that was transpiring on Barsoom through the many trailers that were show over the past several months. Of course along with billing it as an action pack love story love on Mars in a time not so long ago. Even though Burroughs Martian saga was meet for a juvenile audience it was complex and I think this is where the movie failed for me. To much action not enough story.
Overall through it looks like Disney was trying to portray a good Burroughs rendition of his near 100 years old Martian saga.
The movie is an acceptable for a true John Carter movie to us. We think it is a winner and just hope when the dvd comes out there will a extended version.
On the flip side to me it seemed the movie was a little rush or crammed. There was much that was not explained to the general audience, which may have not been necessary if your intention in making the film that was a one shot deal. Then your point was made. A man was transported to Mars via an alien device and saved the good guys. Sounds like “Stargate”.
Many of the audience I spoke with after the movie was over stated the movie was good, but much of it they did not understand, they just accepted it and went on. Everyone enjoyed it, but it seemed that they were not drawn into the Barsoomian lore. Which is sad, just another scifi action film. It would have been smart maybe if Disney would have taken the time to explain some aspects about the different races and the struggle that was transpiring on Barsoom through the many trailers that were show over the past several months. Of course along with billing it as an action pack love story love on Mars in a time not so long ago. Even though Burroughs Martian saga was meet for a juvenile audience it was complex and I think this is where the movie failed for me. To much action not enough story.
Overall through it looks like Disney was trying to portray a good Burroughs rendition of his near 100 years old Martian saga.
#551
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:43 AM
Today I and my Dejah Thoris went to see the John Carter of Mars movie. We really enjoyed it. More or less all the elements were there that Burroughs wrote and then some. There was the Tharks destroying the eggs that had not hatched at the incubator as mention in Burroughs story. Then there were the Fliers which look great, the Atmosphere Plant (or at less what I thought was it) and the Martians cities, which were just as we imagine them.
The movie is an acceptable for a true John Carter movie to us. We think it is a winner and just hope when the dvd comes out there will a extended version.
On the flip side to me it seemed the movie was a little rush or crammed. There was much that was not explained to the general audience, which may have not been necessary if your intention in making the film that was a one shot deal. Then your point was made. A man was transported to Mars via an alien device and saved the good guys. Sounds like “Stargate”.
Many of the audience I spoke with after the movie was over stated the movie was good, but much of it they did not understand, they just accepted it and went on. Everyone enjoyed it, but it seemed that they were not drawn into the Barsoomian lore. Which is sad, just another scifi action film. It would have been smart maybe if Disney would have taken the time to explain some aspects about the different races and the struggle that was transpiring on Barsoom through the many trailers that were show over the past several months. Of course along with billing it as an action pack love story love on Mars in a time not so long ago. Even though Burroughs Martian saga was meet for a juvenile audience it was complex and I think this is where the movie failed for me. To much action not enough story.
Overall through it looks like Disney was trying to portray a good Burroughs rendition of his near 100 years old Martian saga.
One completely legitimate criticism is some aspects being rushed or not made clear to the audience. I don't think they made it very clear exactly who Sarjoka was, or Tal Hajus for that matter. We saw them a lot, but saying name with character at least once in a film (and not in the aliens' language) would help the audience tell them apart. For this reason, it was a good idea to streamline the number of characters, losing Than Kosis or Mors Kajak wasn't a big deal for this story.
I thought I read somewhere there will be deleted scenes, but not an extended cut. I don't think there needs to be one, but I'm interested to see exactly what they cut. In the same article, I believe they mentioned they didn't use the atmosphere plant this time out, saving it for later (if there is a later).
#552
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:00 AM
Disney's head of distribution speak about John Carter's stronger international numbers and the positive reaction from audiences:
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/john-ca...160324704.html
"We certainly appreciate the larger economics of the film, but are encouraged by how it has been received by audiences, and we hope to see that generate positive word-of-mouth," Disney's head of distribution, Dave Hollis, told TheWrap Sunday morning.
Also, according to this same article:
That positive word-of-mouth is likely responsible in large part for the 25 percent uptick from Friday to Saturday.
"John Carter's" audience was overwhelmingly male and slightly older: 64 percent of the audience was male and 59 percent was 25 and older.
The movie played especially well at IMAX locations. It drew a bit more than $5 million -- 16 percent of its total domestic take -- at those large-screen theaters, and eight of the top 10 "John Carter" theaters were IMAX.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/john-ca...160324704.html
"We certainly appreciate the larger economics of the film, but are encouraged by how it has been received by audiences, and we hope to see that generate positive word-of-mouth," Disney's head of distribution, Dave Hollis, told TheWrap Sunday morning.
Also, according to this same article:
That positive word-of-mouth is likely responsible in large part for the 25 percent uptick from Friday to Saturday.
"John Carter's" audience was overwhelmingly male and slightly older: 64 percent of the audience was male and 59 percent was 25 and older.
The movie played especially well at IMAX locations. It drew a bit more than $5 million -- 16 percent of its total domestic take -- at those large-screen theaters, and eight of the top 10 "John Carter" theaters were IMAX.
#553
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:13 AM
Saw it today and liked it just fine. My previous observation from the trailer that I thought the beginning had been changed (Yankees swapped out for Apaches) was incorrect, the Apaches are still there and indeed the Blue Coats were a fun addition to the movie.
I can definitely see the point that the critics are making that the movie is too complex (if you haven't read the books) but the sad truth is that it was the sampling of 3 books (4 if you count the super-weapon) that caused the plot to be needlessly complicated. The problem was further compounded by bits of exposition added for the movie that were not even in the books.
A franchise could have easily been born if the director and writers had just stuck to the first novel and setup the framework of Barsoom and more complex plots in the future.
But make no mistake, as a reader of the books and fan of ERB I was not disappointed at all.
Kev
I can definitely see the point that the critics are making that the movie is too complex (if you haven't read the books) but the sad truth is that it was the sampling of 3 books (4 if you count the super-weapon) that caused the plot to be needlessly complicated. The problem was further compounded by bits of exposition added for the movie that were not even in the books.
A franchise could have easily been born if the director and writers had just stuck to the first novel and setup the framework of Barsoom and more complex plots in the future.
But make no mistake, as a reader of the books and fan of ERB I was not disappointed at all.
Kev
"Poets always hate those in power. To them perfection is always just behind the last corner, or beyond the next."
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#554
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:44 AM
For me this perfectly invoked the mystery and imagination of Burroughs’ stories and encapsulated the spirit of high, heroic adventure. What more could I ask for?
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#555
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:31 PM
I liked it alot. Reminded me of the 1950s swords&sandals flicks (especially the music). I liked that it was based off the first book.
#556
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 08:17 PM
I will add that the 3D is a superfluous conversion which adds nothing to the film whatsoever. See it but in 2D,
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#557
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:28 PM
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"
Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."
--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard
Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."
--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard
#558
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:40 PM
I saw John Carter yesterday, and I wished I'd waited. I was still recovering from a bout of the flu, and I was friggin' exhausted. But I simply couldn't wait any longer, so I pumped myself up with energy shots and got my ass to the local theatre. I had just finished re-reading the novel a few days ago, and I think that was a mistake, because I found myself distracted by the differences between the original source material and the film. That seems to always happen with me, ever since Conan 82. The logical half of my brain can say that it contained all the elements that a good John Carter of Mars film should, and I don't mind how much it deviated from the book. It's just that I didn't connect with it on an emotional level. The whole thing felt surreal to me. I don't blame the film; rather, I blame my ravaged state of mind while watching it. I'm sure that when I see it again, I'll friggin' love it and have lots more to say about it.
Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--
#559
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:26 AM
They needed to grow some awareness of Burroughs and his works rather than remove all reference of Mars from the title. Most people I know who aren't utter geeks have no awareness of the books and I can picture a far better campaign in my minds eye which would attempt to rectify that.
At least I got to see some of my favourite characters live on the silver screen in an old school fantasy adventure and if I don't end up seeing it again at the cinema (in 2D) I will be looking forward to an extended Blu-ray.
At least I got to see some of my favourite characters live on the silver screen in an old school fantasy adventure and if I don't end up seeing it again at the cinema (in 2D) I will be looking forward to an extended Blu-ray.
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#560
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:29 AM
The more I've been thinking about it and seeing other people's reactions, the one title change that did make sense is not calling it Princess of Mars, because it's not a direct adaptation of the book. It's similar to the problem Disney had when they wanted to do 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. The book was more travelogue than actual story so they had to come up with a narrative drive. POM has a basic story but it goes off on so many tangents about the Martian culture, it did need to be reworked. I definitely went to reread the trilogy to see what got pulled into the film from the other two books. I have a general idea but I haven't read all the way through them in decades. If somehow we're lucky enough to get more films, I wouldn't mind mixing things in from other books, such as having Ras Thavas or the phantom bowmen show up.
