217 replies to this topic

[Sorcery Geek]

This is another clip (it may have been posted before?)

[Boot]

0:55, announcer is calling it a premier "B" movie. With a reported budget of $18 million back then, it wasn't a "B" budget.

If they could have improved Dagoth and Thoth Amon, and removed that silly thief, they might have had a decent film on their hands. Not a block buster. Not as good as the first one. But a film that is at least watchable.

Edited by Boot, 09 February 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[amster]

I watched this again recently, and I was surprised how well it holds up. That is, when you relax and not take it that seriously, and not use the canonical Conan stories as the standard by which it should be measured. Arnold seems much more relaxed and comfortable with his place as a film actor than he does in the first film. In gereral, while not as bloody, the action scenes are more plentiful and better choreographed than in the Milius film. The stunt at the beginning where Conan ducks under the net and dismounts the riders from their horses is particularly impressive. A lot of people compalin about Dagoth, but his designer, Carlos Rambaldi, was considered the top professional at that time (he created ET as well), and the design was considered "state of the art" in 1984. The soundtrack by Poledouris isn't quite up to the level of CtB, and borrows many of it's themes, but it's otherwise a solid effort. The Blu Ray release offers picture quality (and especially sound quality) that's better than the original theatrical release. Everyone in the film looks like they're having a good time, and the enthusiasm is infectious.

All and all, the film offers a good way to get your Conan fix (again, if you don't take it too seriously). It's not where I would have taken the series after CtB, but it's 30 years old, so there's really no point in bitchin' about it now. It is what it is. My suggestion: if you have a free afternoon, invite some sword brothers over, crack open some cold ones, and do a three film marathon, CtB82, CtD, and CtB2011. You might even enjoy yourself.

[Sorcery Geek]

The IMBD page Of Sarah Douglas has A behind the scene photo of the deleted love scene plus some nice photos of one of her outfits.http://www.imdb.com/...5243/?ref_=sr_1

[Sorcery Geek]

The Falcon Dress that Sarah Douglas wears in Conan the Destroyer is my favourite outfit on her in the movie. We only see it in A quick scene when Jehnna comes back to the Castle. She wears a different outfit in the deleted love scene. She talk about the outfit in her commentary track for Conan the Destroyer.

Edited by Sorcery Geek, 11 February 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Sorcery Geek]

Here is A photo of the Deleted Love scene from Conan the Destroyer

[Lunatic]

I should try to get my hands on this extramaterial DVD, what is that a mask she is wearing? Is there more bloodshed in the deleted material as well?

I think the Shadizar settings and costumes were great in the Destroyer.

Amster: Don´t forget Red Sonja now...classic!

Edited by Lunatic, 11 February 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[gungnir_1972]

I would love to see a cut of Destroyer with all the deleted scenes,if they had held to the R rating of CTB and kept the serious tone,the blood and gore and done away with the campiness I'd have enjoyed CTD alot more.I have to admit it's really not that bad.I'ts not as good as CTB and 2011 for me but there good stuff there too.

[Sorcery Geek]

The U.K. Collectors Edition dvd by Sanctuary has a 20 page booklet on the movie with an article by Paul M. Sammon and photos. It has 5 Lobby Cards. Commentary track with Sarah Douglas, Kim Newman and Stephen Jones. Plus photo Gallery and Quiz. They did A good job but the movie is cut.

[Sorcery Geek]

The German Blu -Ray Of Conan the Destroyer has the two old Commentary tracks 1)Richard Fleischer 2)Olivia and Tracey Walter. Conan the making of comic book legend. The Trailer and Basil Poledouris talks about the music of Conan. The movie is not cut which is good. The U.S.A. Blu-Ray had no good extras Unfortunately.

[Sorcery Geek]

 Click here for A link  that looks at Conan the Destroyer cuts from the U.K. http://www.movie-cen...ort.php?ID=4624

 

The site is very good and covers cuts and different versions of movies. 

[Boot]

CONAN THE DESTROYER


I re-watched Conan The Destroyer tonight. I purchased "The Complete Quest" (not so complete now that The Legend of Conan is being made) for $5 bucks off of Amazon. The set is bare bones, but it does provide the most recent, cleaned up versions of both Ahrnold films.

I will say that the cleaned up version actually makes the film watchable. I saw the original version on Encore (or one of the channels) a few months ago, and it was a crappy and as campy as I remembered it being when I walked out of the theater after seeing it for the first time in the mid-80's. The cleaned up version + lowered expectations? It's a watchable a film.

Destroyer remains no where near as good as Ahrnold's first at-bat, and I actually like the recent Momoa version much, much better than Destroyer. But, I'll say this: Even the campy looking Dagoth climax monster looks a heck of a lot better in this version of the film. They touched it up a bit, made the colors darker. Yes, it still looks like dude in a rubber suit, but it's a hell of a sight better looking than the original.

Too bad the Thoth-Amon scene in the room of mirrors couldn't be changed. That's still the low point of the show. That ape-thing that Thoth turns into in order to fight Conan is just, well, not worthy of a D movie from a 1980's video tape. That whole section with Thoth-Amon is just awful.

Most of the sets look very good, even for today's standards (Thoth Amon sequence excluded, of course). I really don't like that silly looking fantasy armor that the Shadizar guards wear, though. The rest of the costumes are pretty good.

The thing about this film is that it's really not a Conan movie. It's a Conan comic book movie. Where the first film followed Howard's works more closely, this film seemed to follow the Marvel comic more closely. The film is lighter. Sometimes, it's funny. But, the plot is very by-the-numbers and feels like a five issue comic book story-arc.

Issue 1: Set up the quest with Conan being chased by Queen Taramis. Conan misses Valeria. Taramis promises to bring her back if Conan will do her this one teecy-weency favor. Issue ends with Conan setting out on his quest.

Issue 2: Conan needs pals. First, he and Malak are joined by Akiro the sorcerer, first, then unexpectantly by Zula the Kushite. Issue ends when Zula swears to give her life to Conan if he will just let her travel with him.

Issue 3: The party confronts Thoth-Amon in his Crystal Palace. Conan wins the Heart of Ahriman. Issue ends during their daring escape while the palace crumbles around them and sinks back into the lake.

Issue 4: After a fight with the Shadizar Royal Guards, Jehnna leads Conan to the ancient crypt where the Heart tells them the location of the mythical Horn of Dagoth. Issues ends with a rip-roaring fight with more Shadizar Guards and Bombaata screwing Conan over in THE BIG TWIST. What will Conan do? Issue ends with the party again pledging their lives to Conan and the lot of them riding for Shadizar.

Issue 5: The Big Climax! Malak knows a back way into the locked down city. Jehnna is about to be sacrificed, and the END OF THE WORLD is near as the Horn is placed on the Sleeping God's head. Conan fights Bombaata, then he and the others take on the Dagoth creature that spawns as the sacrificial ceremony is spoiled. Issue ends with Jehnna on the throne, every member of the party given a position in her court, with Conan turning down the opportunity to rule Shadizar at Jehnna's side. No, the big Cimmerian will wait until he gets a kingdom of his own.

IT'S A COMIC BOOK!

Which, is no surprise, really, since Roy Thomas--the dude responsible for bringing Conan to Marvel comics in the first place back in the 70's--co-wrote the script. As a matter of fact, if you really do want to see his unaltered version of the story, look for a 1980's Marvel graphic novel called Conan The Barbarian: The Horn of Azoth.

There seems to be a D&D fan somewhere in the production, too. Maybe one of the writers. Maybe old Roy, himself. It's like they mined the game for ideas in the script. I remember the first time I saw the film, watching the (horrible) Thoth-Amon scene in the room of mirrors. "He just cast Mirror Image!" I said to my bud that went to see it with me. In the scene where Akiro and the evil mage are fighting to open or close the door in the ancient crypt, my buddy nugged me and said, "Akiro's using Hold Portal while the bad guy is using Knock!".

Thoth-Amon used his crystal ball to scry on Conan and Jehnna approaching his palace.


We were neck deep in AD&D at that time, and our group, like most groups, had the inevitable arguments over thieves using their backstab ability. Just how do that do it in combat? Can they only use it once? How can it be used if the enemy knows the thief is there?

Well, Malak's combat scenes solved that problem for us. In the film, that's his primary attack move!

Even the fights were AD&D realistic! Look at that opening sequence. Conan rips through the bad guys. Why? Because he's much higher level! Those guys were probably zero level men-at-arms! And, the thief Malak. Why did he hide under the altar during the fight? BECAUSE HE AIN'T GOT NO FRIGGIN' HIT POINTS. He hid and waited for opportunities to backstab without getting into melee directly.



As a whole, I still think Destroyer is a pretty lousy movie. If you're a D&D fan, and/or a Conan fan, you may get a nostalgic kick out of this film. That's what I get out of it. And, if you're going to own it, the cleaned up version is the way to go. I mean, hey! You get both films for $5 bucks!

In my estimation, using the ABCDF grading system, here's how I rate the three Conan films:

Conan The Barbarian 1982 - Grade B.

Conan The Barbarian 2012 - Grade C.

Conan The Destroyer - Grade D or F (D if have the D&D, Conan, nostalgic connection, otherwise F).



I'm still waiting for that awesome, blow my socks off Conan film. Maybe the upcoming The Legend of Conan will be it.





BTW, Robert Jordan's novelization of Conan The Destroyer is actually quite good. I think it's the least interesting of the seven Conan books that Jordan wrote, but it is much, much better than the film.

 

[deuce]

The German Blu -Ray Of Conan the Destroyer has the two old Commentary tracks 1)Richard Fleischer 2)Olivia and Tracey Walter. Conan the making of comic book legend. The Trailer and Basil Poledouris talks about the music of Conan. The movie is not cut which is good. The U.S.A. Blu-Ray had no good extras Unfortunately.

 

 

Fleischer made some great movies (CtD wasn't one of them). Would love to hear D'Abo and Basil's commentary.

[deuce]

CONAN THE DESTROYER



The thing about this film is that it's really not a Conan movie. It's a Conan comic book movie. Where the first film followed Howard's works more closely, this film seemed to follow the Marvel comic more closely. The film is lighter. Sometimes, it's funny. But, the plot is very by-the-numbers and feels like a five issue comic book story-arc.

Issue 1: Set up the quest with Conan being chased by Queen Taramis. Conan misses Valeria. Taramis promises to bring her back if Conan will do her this one teecy-weency favor. Issue ends with Conan setting out on his quest.

Issue 2: Conan needs pals. First, he and Malak are joined by Akiro the sorcerer, first, then unexpectantly by Zula the Kushite. Issue ends when Zula swears to give her life to Conan if he will just let her travel with him.

Issue 3: The party confronts Thoth-Amon in his Crystal Palace. Conan wins the Heart of Ahriman. Issue ends during their daring escape while the palace crumbles around them and sinks back into the lake.

Issue 4: After a fight with the Shadizar Royal Guards, Jehnna leads Conan to the ancient crypt where the Heart tells them the location of the mythical Horn of Dagoth. Issues ends with a rip-roaring fight with more Shadizar Guards and Bombaata screwing Conan over in THE BIG TWIST. What will Conan do? Issue ends with the party again pledging their lives to Conan and the lot of them riding for Shadizar.

Issue 5: The Big Climax! Malak knows a back way into the locked down city. Jehnna is about to be sacrificed, and the END OF THE WORLD is near as the Horn is placed on the Sleeping God's head. Conan fights Bombaata, then he and the others take on the Dagoth creature that spawns as the sacrificial ceremony is spoiled. Issue ends with Jehnna on the throne, every member of the party given a position in her court, with Conan turning down the opportunity to rule Shadizar at Jehnna's side. No, the big Cimmerian will wait until he gets a kingdom of his own.

IT'S A COMIC BOOK!

Which, is no surprise, really, since Roy Thomas--the dude responsible for bringing Conan to Marvel comics in the first place back in the 70's--co-wrote the script. As a matter of fact, if you really do want to see his unaltered version of the story, look for a 1980's Marvel graphic novel called Conan The Barbarian: The Horn of Azoth.

There seems to be a D&D fan somewhere in the production, too. Maybe one of the writers. Maybe old Roy, himself. It's like they mined the game for ideas in the script.


BTW, Robert Jordan's novelization of Conan The Destroyer is actually quite good. I think it's the least interesting of the seven Conan books that Jordan wrote, but it is much, much better than the film.

 

 

I thought RT's The Horn of Azoth was definitely better than CtD (or Jordan's adaptation). Regarding CtB82 following REH Conan "more closely" than Thomas-era comics Conan? I just don't see it.

[Boot]

Regarding CtB82 following REH Conan "more closely" than Thomas-era comics Conan? I just don't see it.

 

 

I say that because there's a lot of stuff taken from Howard, sometimes re-worked, for the story.  I'm sure you know all of this.

 

Off the top of my head, the scene where Thulsa Doom has Conan crucified on the Tree of Woe is right out of Howard's "A Witch Shall Be Born".

Thulsa Doom, the sorceror said to have lived over a thousand years, was first mentioned in Howard's Kull story, "Delcardes Cat" (more popularly known as "The Cat and the Skull"). But, the Thulsa Doom in the movie is quite different from the one described in the Kull story.

Valeria appears, of course, in Howard's "Red Nails", and Sandahl Bergman's portrayal is pretty close to her description.

In the film, Valeria is really a combination of two characters from Howard's stories, Valeria and Belit, the love of Conan's life from Howard's "Queen of the Black Coast". In fact, the film Valeria says something to the effect, "Were I still in death and you fighting for life, I would come back to the abyss to aid you--aye, whether my spirit floated with the purple sails on the crystal sea of paradise, or writhed in the molten flames of hell!" And, that's a Belit quote from Howard's story.

Climbing the tower with Valeria and Subotai is reminiscent from the same type of climb in Howard's "The Tower of the Elephant". Instead of a Giant Spider, the tower hides a giant snake.

And, snakes, especially big ones, figure prominently in several of Howard's Conan tales.

The opening narration is taken, in part, from the opening of Howard's "The Phoenix on the Sword". Know, Oh Prince...

 

 

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, but that alone makes it closer to Howard's version of Conan than Destroyer.

 

[deuce]

Regarding CtB82 following REH Conan "more closely" than Thomas-era comics Conan? I just don't see it.

 

 

I say that because there's a lot of stuff taken from Howard, sometimes re-worked, for the story.  I'm sure you know all of this.

 

Off the top of my head, the scene where Thulsa Doom has Conan crucified on the Tree of Woe is right out of Howard's "A Witch Shall Be Born".

Thulsa Doom, the sorceror said to have lived over a thousand years, was first mentioned in Howard's Kull story, "Delcardes Cat" (more popularly known as "The Cat and the Skull"). But, the Thulsa Doom in the movie is quite different from the one described in the Kull story.

Valeria appears, of course, in Howard's "Red Nails", and Sandahl Bergman's portrayal is pretty close to her description.

In the film, Valeria is really a combination of two characters from Howard's stories, Valeria and Belit, the love of Conan's life from Howard's "Queen of the Black Coast". In fact, the film Valeria says something to the effect, "Were I still in death and you fighting for life, I would come back to the abyss to aid you--aye, whether my spirit floated with the purple sails on the crystal sea of paradise, or writhed in the molten flames of hell!" And, that's a Belit quote from Howard's story.

Climbing the tower with Valeria and Subotai is reminiscent from the same type of climb in Howard's "The Tower of the Elephant". Instead of a Giant Spider, the tower hides a giant snake.

And, snakes, especially big ones, figure prominently in several of Howard's Conan tales.

The opening narration is taken, in part, from the opening of Howard's "The Phoenix on the Sword". Know, Oh Prince...

 

 

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, but that alone makes it closer to Howard's version of Conan than Destroyer.

 

 

Milius "reworked" all Howard references. Out of context, one could make the argument that Conan was actually a crucified gladiator from Howard Fast's Spartacus. Again and again, out of context. Thulsa Doom had nothing to do with Howard's Conan.

 

"Howard's version of Conan"? Considering all the "non-Conan" elements (ultimately derived in some fashion from REH or not) introduced in CtB82, I'd say the two movies achieve a draw in that sweepstakes.

 

I thought you were a Roy Thomas fan, Boot? Glenn Lord certainly had good things to say about Mr. Thomas both times I spoke to him.

 

When all is said and done, I really don't argue that CtB82 is better than CtD (though not by much), just that Thomas' comics run was better than either movie.

[Ironhand]

Just because Milius' CTB82 lifted random scenes from all kinds of Conan stories, mixed them up, and shook them together, doesn't make it close to Conan.  At least Roy Thomas' stories retained the entire plots of Conan stories and properly identified them.

[Boot]

How close CtB 1982 is to Howard's original works can be argued, obviously.  Deuce didn't agree that the film was closer to Howard's work than CtD.  My point was that CtB 1982 was closer only because it had the references.

 

Whether the way those references were implemented in a good or bad way is a matter of taste.