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Kane, Karl Edward Wagner's Dark Hero


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#141 Doug

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:58 PM

Hey all.

Here's my idea...
Erik Mona is the publisher of Paizo's "Planet Stories Library"
And ss most of you all know, Mr. Mona is responsible for bringing Leigh Brackett (John Eric Stark), C.L. Moore (Jirel of Joiry & Northwest Smith)
Henry Kuttner (Elak of Atlantis), REH (Almuric),A.Merritt (Ship of Ishtar) amd Manly Wade Wellman (Silver John & Hok) back into print for a mass audience.
so we all know that his heart is definitely in the right place!
He is very active on the Planet Stories board and answers every query.
He's been getting quite a few requests for KEW's Kane.
I bet if he get's flooded with requests he would maybe try a little harder to get his hands on the series.
He has never ever stated that acwuiring the series is difficult or impossible.
I personaly think that this would be one of their best selling titles if they would bring it back out.

SO EVERYONE SHOULD PLEASE REGISTER at the PLANET STORIES BOARD and REQUEST THESE BOOKS AND EXPLAIN WHY IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA AND A FINANCIAL SUCCESS

Here are the links...

KANE at Planet Stories Board

YOU CAN REGISTER AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE!
IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES!!


Maybe we can pull this off if we all write to Mr. Mona!!

Take care and enjoy your Sunday!

Doug

Edited by Doug, 14 February 2010 - 01:01 PM.

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#142 Taranaich

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:29 PM

I don't doubt that Erik's as eager to get Kane back in print as any of us, but perhaps a letter campaign could give him support. When he goes to the money/copyright men, he can point to the requests and say "see? There's definitely a market there!"

I'll get on it. B)

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#143 deuce

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:23 AM

Hey Doug! I've read both private and public posts from Mr. Mona saying that he would love to reprint Wagner's Kane books. In fact, I believe I read one post which was in response to one of your own pleas over on the PS forum. I can start pasting those posts from Mona here. In the end, it's like talking to the bailer, not the jailer. You tell somebody, "Hey, you really need to bail your buddy outta jail!" They say, "I already tried!" Go over to the East of Eden site or find out who handles KEW's fiction and start complaining. This whole topic has been talked about over on the KEW thread. Busting Mona's balls over it when he has neither the legal power nor the cash to change the situation is just wasting everyone's time.

My two cents. :)

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#144 deuce

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:28 AM

Hey all.

Here's my idea...
Erik Mona is the publisher of Paizo's "Planet Stories Library"
I bet if he get's flooded with requests he would maybe try a little harder to get his hands on the series.
He has never ever stated that acwuiring the series is difficult or impossible.





That quote is flat-out inaccurate and contradicts everything I've heard from others, including Morgan Holmes. Mona has no control over the Wagner estate, nor does Paizo have major reserves of cash. If anything, Night Shade should be contacted (though getting a hold of the Wagner family/esate would be MUCH more proactive, IMO). They (NS) published the Kane stuff already. If anybody could put out reprints of the hardcovers or put out trade reprints, it's Night Shade.

The word is, the Wagner estate is holding out for movie adaptation money for a film that probably won't get made. From everything I've heard, the East of Eden site has close connections to the KEW estate. Try emailing them. Here's the url:

http://www.karledwardwagner.org/

Getting onto Mona about this is like writing letters to Jim Baen, Toni Weisskopf, David Drake and Rusty Burke in 1993 and telling them they needed to publish the REH Conan yarns again. Legally, they had nothing to say/do about the situation.

Hope that helps.:)

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#145 Doug

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:56 AM

What I stated is not "flat-out inaccurate and contradicts everything I've heard from others"
All I stated is that Mr. Mona has never stated that aquiring the storie/novels was difficult or impossible.

If I am incorrect then please show me where he has has stated this and I will retract my comments.
Secondly, I'm not talking about what "others" have said. I'm talking about Mr. Mona's own comments on the PS board and not 2nd hand infos.
Ok?

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#146 deuce

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:58 AM

What I stated is not "flat-out inaccurate and contradicts everything I've heard from others"
All I stated is that Mr. Mona has never stated that aquiring the storie/novels was difficult or impossible.

If I am incorrect then please show me where he has has stated this and I will retract my comments.


As I've said before, we've enquired about the Kane books, but our emails were not returned. May try again on those later.


That was posted by Mona six months ago on this page:



http://paizo.com/pai...ests&page=9#447

Check out Erik Mona's post for July 13, 2009. As you can see, he told the inquirer that he'd mentioned the difficulty in getting an answer from the Wagner estate before. I know those two instances aren't the only times Mona addressed the issue on the Paizo messageboards.

Scroll through that entire "Request" thread (and the other "Request" thread) and you'll see it basically is a "writing campaign". The Kane stories get requested again and again and again. Mona mentioned the difficulties in getting some sort of communication, let alone rights, from the Wagner estate in December on Paizo's Facebook page as well.

The word is that the Wagner estate wants serious money and that is something Paizo doesn't have.

The Wagner estate is sitting on the Kane stories and badgering Erik Mona won't change that. Deluge someone actually connected with the estate with emails if you're serious about it.

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#147 Doug

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:09 AM

I stand corrected.

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#148 terryallenuk

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:16 AM

Might be an idea to ask about it over on the KEW Yahoo Group.

http://groups.yahoo....yguid=104556070

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#149 Doug

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:56 AM

I want to thank everyone for setting me straight. I get carrried away sometimes without thinking things through

A BUCKEYE ABROAD

I'm a little wounded, but I am not slain; I will lay me down for to bleed a while, Then I'll rise and fight with you again


http://uncledougsbunkerofhorror.blogspot.de/

 

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#150 BloodNGore

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:00 PM

IT's cool man, what we all need to do is like sign a petition and send it to someone close to the estate like Deuce said, if they see that enough people will buy the reprints that they can get their money for the film that way, which I would love to see btw.
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#151 Libaax

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:38 PM

I seriously hope this happens in the future(hopefully near future). Planet Stories books are great and not reading Kane that so many people rave about is such a shame.

#152 Hyborian Frog

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:40 PM

Paizo/Planet Stories should definitely put KEW back in print! Both his horror and his Kane stories!

#153 deuce

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

Paizo/Planet Stories should definitely put KEW back in print! Both his horror and his Kane stories!



They want to, but they can't. The Wagner estate won't return their calls/emails.

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#154 Axerules

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:13 AM

A review of the novel Dark Crusade on SFReader.com :

http://sfreader.com/...l-Edward-Wagner
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#155 Guest_tank666_*

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 01:27 AM

There are two injustices in the literary world.One is wagner is not in print and the other ,not to get off the subject is graham mastertons short horror stories not being in print.

#156 deuce

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 01:51 AM

There are two injustices in the literary world.One is wagner is not in print and the other ,not to get off the subject is graham mastertons short horror stories not being in print.



Hey Tank! KEW not being in print IS an injustice.

However, before anyone starts pointing fingers at various publishing houses, just know that I've heard from various knowledgeable people that it is the Wagner Estate which is holding up new publications. Anyone who wants to see Wagner back in print should contact the people at the KEW Yahoo group or those who run the East of Eden website.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that Night Shade books wanted to reprint their two Kane volumes. The KEW Estate shut them down. Same goes for Paizo/Planet Stories reprinting Kane. The Wagner people won't return Paizo's calls. The "industry" does not seem at fault in this case. Posted Image

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#157 amster

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 01:57 AM

A review of the novel Dark Crusade on SFReader.com :

http://sfreader.com/...l-Edward-Wagner


That's a really strong review. For many years Dark Crusade was my favorite sword and sorcery novel. It took me at least two years to obtain a copy (long before the internet...if you wanted an out of print book you had to comb the used book stores). When I finally got my hands on a copy I devoured it whole in one day, and it friggin' blew my mind. I've probably read it half a dozen times since then, and each times's a pleasure.
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#158 amster

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:00 AM

Hey Tank! KEW not being in print IS an injustice.

However, before anyone starts pointing fingers at various publishing houses, just know that I've heard from various knowledgeable people that it is the Wagner Estate which is holding up new publications. Anyone who wants to see Wagner back in print should contact the people at the KEW Yahoo group or those who run the East of Eden website.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that Night Shade books wanted to reprint their two Kane volumes. The KEW Estate shut them down. Same goes for Paizo/Planet Stories reprinting Kane. The Wagner people won't return Paizo's calls. The "industry" does not seem at fault in this case. Posted Image


I take it they're still trying to carve out a movie deal. If they can get Kane on film, I don't care if they temporarily withhold publishing. I already have most of his stuff. ;)
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Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

#159 deuce

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:13 AM


A review of the novel Dark Crusade on SFReader.com :

http://sfreader.com/...l-Edward-Wagner


That's a really strong review. For many years Dark Crusade was my favorite sword and sorcery novel. It took me at least two years to obtain a copy (long before the internet...if you wanted an out of print book you had to comb the used book stores). When I finally got my hands on a copy I devoured it whole in one day, and it friggin' blew my mind. I've probably read it half a dozen times since then, and each times's a pleasure.



Hey Amster! I picked up a copy in '86 when the Kane books were getting reprinted. Turns out, the copy I had was missing 30+ pages. Had to exchange it for another novel, since ALL copies had the same defect.

For a long time, I've believed that Dark Crusade is based in part on the takeover of the German city of Munster by the Anabaptists (a Mennonite splinter sect) and their leader, Van Leyden. Hitler was compared to Van Leyden by some. KEW was of German descent and I doubt he was unaware of the Anabaptists and the siege of Munster.

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#160 doubledeviant

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:17 AM

I often see Karl Edward Wagner's Kane stories reccomended to Robert Howard fans. As a counterpoint, let me advise caution against spending too much to acquire Wagner's Kane works.

I've read "Death Angel's Shadow" and "Night Winds" (two collections of Wagner's short stories featuring Kane). Like Sermon Bath, I find Kane rather flat. When he's not drowning in self-pity over his "curse" (immortality), Kane rapes, kills, and pillages to stave off boredom. That's about the extent of it.

Before someone says "You just don't get it!":

From what I've read, I get the gist that Wagner was somewhat of a nihilist. (I can relate; as an amateur philosopher, I grapple with nihilism, too.) From a nihilist perspective, immortality (and perhaps life itself) can be considered a curse, for what is eternal life if life has no meaning? The problem is that Kane does not attempt to forge a meaningful existence through his adventures; rather, he alternates between whining and crying about his accursed state and drowning his sorrows in the cries and blood of others. There's no tragic struggle against nihilism but instead a near-total surrender to it (near only because Kane does not consider suicide).

The most disappointing aspect of all this is the wasted potential: Kane's origin (glimpsed here and there in different stories) is most interesting. In essence, it's a left-hand path interpretation of the story of Cain and Abel: A mad god creates man in his own flawed image. Man is this insane creator's pet, and the majority of mankind are fawning sheep. Kanes kills his brother, the god's favorite pet, introducing mankind to violence but also to aspiration, and is cursed with immortality. This leads to the problem: Afterwards, in the stories presented, Kane seems to possess little aspiration beyond pleasure and greed.

There is good to be found, however:

"Two Suns Setting" (included in the collection of short stories called "Night Winds") is most excellent. The events of the story comprise a sort of dirge for heroic ages long past (even Kane himself is moved by the events of the story). I rank it among the greatest fantasy stories that I've read, and I believe it to be primary to understanding Wagner's nilihism.

So... If you're a bit unsure, wait until you can obtain the stories at a modest or cheap price (play the eBay game, be patient, etc), because it's a different cup of tea. ;)

Edit: spelling

Edited by doubledeviant, 31 July 2010 - 07:27 AM.