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Maps of the Thurian Age


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#41 deuce

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:16 AM

Just realized something... In Marchers of Valhalla, Poseidon "Messed With Texas". Big time. :P

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#42 deuce

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 03:33 AM

I posted on this subject in another thread and I can't find it, but in the original Kull #1 Marvel states that in Kull #2 they will have a new and updated map that corrects the inaccurate map by Lin Carter in the Lancer paperback. Also, the map wasn't signed by Severin so I don't know if he was the creator of that map. As mentioned, that map (from Kull #2) is used throughout the various Marvel Kull series and mini-series from that date on. I'll try and find that post...

In the 1967 Lancer complilation of Kull stories, King Kull, Lin Carter (editor of the book) drew a map of Kulls world. In the 1971 Marvel comic Kull the Conqueror, issue #1, they state that a map of King Kull's world is being drafted and will be available in issue #2. They even say the map "will be supplanting the less complete one in the Lancer paperback volume King Kull." In issue #2 in the back is a map that is not credited and is the map Marvel uses throughout the years in all their Kull comics.
In comparing the two it looks like Carter's map does not include the countries of Thule, Commoria, Kamelia or the Lemuran Isles. The Marvel map also includes the unexplored land south of Verulia, Kamelia and Thurania. The artist's for the comic were Marie and John Severin and I can only assume they drew the map.


How did Carter miss all those countries?


Hey Strom! Just happened upon this post. My theory is that Thule, Commoria and Kamelia were first mentioned in The Hyborian Age essay, never in the Kull yarns. Why that made a difference to Lin, I'm not sure, but there ya go. He never had a problem cluster-f*****g different stuff together. He tried to work his "Thongor" stuff (and Jakes' "Khurdisan") into the Mythos, despite the fact that they were square pegs in non-Euclidean holes. As for the Lemurian Isles (speaking as a cartographer of the Thurian Age ;) ), it would've taken a two-page spread to show them in their proper position. Hope that helps. :)

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#43 Arvid Nelson

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:21 PM

Ah, the map of Thuria... I did a map of Europe for Rex Mundi, a comic I write/created, and it nearly drove me insane. Took me two weeks, and I had to make continual corrections for a few years AFTER I first published it.

The only map of Thuria I've ever seen is the one Mondas linked to (lots of great comments there, Mondas!).

If I ever get my act together, I'll consider doing my own map of Thuria. Hopefully it will be more "definitive", because there are lots of problems with the map Mondas linked to... Lemuria, for instance, it's too far to the east, in my opinion, and too far north. It's not an arctic archipelago, at least not as far as I know!

If it's feasible, I'll release this hypothetical map to the public domain as an .eps file so other people can make their own modifications, corrections and additions. We'll see if it happens! It would be a huge undertaking...
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#44 Red_Slayer

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:10 PM

Looking at Tim Kirk's Thurian Age Map I must say there aer a few things I disagree with. Howard said that Atlantis was a continent, and in the map it appears as a small island. Of course there really is no scale for the map so it might be that it just seems small. The biggest problem I have with it is the placement of the Pictish Isles. The Isles are the tops of mountains that will eventually be part of North America. The Picts and Native Americans both descend from these Islands in Howard's history. I just feel like the placement of the Isles is far too close to what would later become the Hyborian continent and even later Europe and Asia. As for Lemuria, I also think it is far too north on the map, not quite where I imagined it. Anyone else have any input on these subjects? Just curious. Great topic!

#45 deuce

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:26 PM

Looking at Tim Kirk's Thurian Age Map I must say there aer a few things I disagree with. Howard said that Atlantis was a continent, and in the map it appears as a small island. Of course there really is no scale for the map so it might be that it just seems small. The biggest problem I have with it is the placement of the Pictish Isles. The Isles are the tops of mountains that will eventually be part of North America. The Picts and Native Americans both descend from these Islands in Howard's history. I just feel like the placement of the Isles is far too close to what would later become the Hyborian continent and even later Europe and Asia. As for Lemuria, I also think it is far too north on the map, not quite where I imagined it. Anyone else have any input on these subjects? Just curious. Great topic!


Hey RS! Here's what I had to say about Mr. Kirk's map three years ago (though be warned that my opinions have changed slightly since then)...

Lemme just say that I think Tim Kirk is probably the best map artist REH has had. His maps are clear, beautifully rendered and generally accurate. The have an "archaic" look that I find very evocative. Tim didn't have as much to work with on his Thurian Age map as say, his Hyborian or SK "Africa" maps. It would have taken a LOT more research (believe me) to have done the "Kull" map right. As we speak, I believe that Dale is working on a Thurian map. I think it's probable that I won't agree with THAT map either. I'll explicate those reasons to him when he posts his finished work. So, without diggin' out my notes, I'll touch on the major points against TK's map: west to east, north to south...


Kaa-u (Pictish Isles): also called the Sunset Isles. Tim chose to slap "Kaa-u" on the Pictish Isles. I can understand his reasoning, but for various reasons I disagree. The Isles are WAY too close to the Thurian mainland. The general opinion (and mine) is that the Pictish Isles are the tops of what will be the Rocky Mts. in the Hyborian Age (and ours). Moving east to Atlantis, we find, instead of a "small continent", a large island approx. the size of Great Britain or Madagascar. Atlantis is stated to be a navigational obstacle to the Picts and Lemurians. Therefore, I see Atlantis extending from the Azores, following the Mid-Atlantic Ridge almost to where Iceland would later rise. I envision Atlantis as being widest in the south, to accomodate the "savannah" and "jungle" of the Am-Ra tales (it also matches up with Plato). It then narrows in the middle and again widens out in the north. Sorta "spoon-shaped", you could say. The coordinates would be 35 N., 22-34 W. extending up to 67N., 15-25W.

Farsun: a major key and anchor for the whole map. It would appear that the Picts were settled in the mountains of the northern Farsunian/Valusian frontier. According to "The Hyborian Age", that's where we find them at the start of the HA. According to "The Lost Race", that's where we find the Picts (the Basques) from Neolithic times to the present day. Basically, Farsun=Zingara=Iberian Peninsula. I have Farsun sticking out to 12 degrees W. to accommodate the extra land up north while still being "westernmost".
Commoria and Thule: Commoria isn't even mentioned in the Kull tales. Not sure about Thule. Since "Thule" was originally applied to what geographers thought was the northernmost land, I'm placing it in the vicinity of the most northerly British Isles, about 60N., 8W. Commoria I see tucked into the southeast flank of Thule with no common border (in the time of Kull) touching on Valusia. Ever noticed the similarity between "Commoria" and "Cimmeria"? I think this is the area conquered by the northern Atlanteans.

Valusia: I place its western (coastal) boundary at about 6 degrees W., tucked in between the Farsunian and Thulean peninsulas, extending from 43-54 degrees N. Valusia (aka, "the City of Wonders"), the capital of the empire of Valusia, is positioned about where the Italian city of Bergamo is now situated. The Zalgara Mts. run north-south roughly along the 15 degrees E. meridian.
Kamelia and Verulia: I envision Kamelia occupying (roughly) a region including Holland, s. Denmark and n. Germany. I see Verulia situated s-e of Kamelia in the region roughly corresponding with Germany south of Berlin,plus Switzerland and w. Austria. This is because Dalgar, in "Swords of the Purple Kingdom", thought he could reach the Verulian border from the Valusian capitol IN ONE NIGHT!
Zarfhaana: I see this ancient kingdom encompassing Poland (s. of Warsaw), Slovakia, Hungary and Serbia (very roughly). There's a gulf n. of Warsaw "swarming with pirates and sea-rovers". The Camoonian Desert is now covered by the nations of Croatia and Bosnia. The Zhemri Mts.,"in the southeast", which "I" take to mean "the southeast of the Seven Empires", are basically the Balkans today. The "Zarfhaana'an Mts.", where lies Talunia, run roughly north-south on the 25 degrees E. meridian.
Grondar: lies betwixt the 25 E. and 35 E. meridians. It's n. border is where the Stagus empties into the "Zarfhaana'an Gulf". It's s. border lies somewhere about the 42-43 N. parallel.
Stagus R. and the World's End: I believe REH intended the Stagus to become the Styx after the Cataclysm. Instead of running due north, the Cataclysm turned the course of the Stagus due east at the 35 N. parallel. I've had the Stagus "meander" 5 degrees east to give Grondar a little more room. The World's End? It stretches east for a LOOONNG ways.
Thurania: covers an area stretching roughly from Sardinia to Istanbul, south to Crete and west to Tunis. It shares a western border with Farsun, its ancient enemy. VERULIA is never described as being south of Valusia.
"lesser principalities": stretch in an arc 100-200 miles deep, starting from Grondar's s-e border all the way to Farsun.
The Lost Lands: Why are they called "the LOST Lands"? I think there's a very interesting answer for that, but I shan't go into it now. I think they occupy a major portion of what we now call the Middle East.


That's enough for now. I'll just note that Tim didn't make the Thurian (Eurasian/African) continent anywhere near big enough, since we know that the eastern seaboard was pretty close to what it is today. Of course, if I had to cram all that on two paperback-sized pages, I probably would've compressed some things myself. :P


That, plus the new (and fairly accurate, IMO) map of the Seven Empires that I worked up for my presentation on the Thurian Age down at Howard Days '07 and plenty of other stuff about Thurian Age maps is on THIS thread:

http://www.conan.com...?showtopic=4604

Hope that helps. :)

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#46 deuce

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:45 PM

I posted on this subject in another thread and I can't find it, but in the original Kull #1 Marvel states that in Kull #2 they will have a new and updated map that corrects the inaccurate map by Lin Carter in the Lancer paperback. Also, the map wasn't signed by Severin so I don't know if he was the creator of that map. As mentioned, that map (from Kull #2) is used throughout the various Marvel Kull series and mini-series from that date on. I'll try and find that post...

In the 1967 Lancer complilation of Kull stories, King Kull, Lin Carter (editor of the book) drew a map of Kulls world. In the 1971 Marvel comic Kull the Conqueror, issue #1, they state that a map of King Kull's world is being drafted and will be available in issue #2. They even say the map "will be supplanting the less complete one in the Lancer paperback volume King Kull." In issue #2 in the back is a map that is not credited and is the map Marvel uses throughout the years in all their Kull comics.
In comparing the two it looks like Carter's map does not include the countries of Thule, Commoria, Kamelia or the Lemuran Isles. The Marvel map also includes the unexplored land south of Verulia, Kamelia and Thurania. The artist's for the comic were Marie and John Severin and I can only assume they drew the map.


How did Carter miss all those countries?


Hey Strom! My opinion for a long time has been that LC was going STRICTLY by the Kull stories contained within King Kull (Lancer) and that he, for some reason, chose not to use Thule, Commoria and Kamelia in his map because they were only mentioned in the "Hyborian Age" essay. That guideline was written several years after REH stopped writing Kull tales set in the Seven Empires (I'm not counting "KotN"). My take on the mystery. :)

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#47 deuce

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:13 AM

One might ask "But Ixion, Kull rode EAST! Shouldn't a Proto-Stygia lay South?" The thing is I've never quite been satisfied with Hyborian and Thurian maps, they're never quite right so I'm always trying to make the perfect one. While working on a Hyborian map I figured that Earth's continents didn't have to be where they are now so I raised and lowered water levels and shifted Africa so that it was one with India. Now with ths configuration Africa no longer stood horizontal but slanted with S Africa merged with Asia and Morocco facing south. It's too complicated to explain so I'll just have to upload my maps but it places Egypt SE of the European continent. With that being the case my theory works flawlessy, Kull traveled East and because of the curvature of the earth ended up taking a south eastern route where he hits Proto-Stygia!

--- Ixion ---



WOW. So, you're saying that not only Thurian Age maps (the majority of which are inaccurate, IMO) aren't "quite right", but also that the Hyborian Age maps drawn by the hand of Robert E. Howard himself are all wrong as well? Posted Image Boy, springtime brings out all the fanciful souls, I must say.

The problem is, REH did seem to think Earth's continents should be where they are now. That's why he overlaid his Hyborian Age map on to one of modern Europe. His "Hyborian Age" essay makes clear that the ethnically Hyborian kingdoms basically occupy the same regions as the earlier Seven Empires.

Despite what some forum members have tried to claim in the past, Robert E. Howard doesn't seem to have been an adherent of Wegener. There's no real evidence for that whatsoever.

One might now argue "Ixion, you're a douche! You had to reconfigure the entire earth just to satiate your narcissistic views!" To which I would reply "No matter what you do you have to reconfigure the earth to match with Howard's writings and since there's no definitive map drawn by REH it's open season! The map that he drew was merely a rough draft and he paved over the Mediterranean so why can't I play with plate tectonics and water levels?"


--- Ixion ---





REH drew at least 3 maps of the Hyborian Age. All are 90+% congruent. That doesn't leave enough wiggle room for what you're talking about.


REH didn't "play with plate tectonics". He doesn't seem to have been an adherent of Wegener, as I said. Haeckle (whom we know REH read), seems more REH's speed. The Mediterranean was dry land for a significant period in Earth's history.



I always imagined that the land beyond the Stagus would one day become Stygia. Unfortunately the story ["The Stagus Fragment"] was never completed so we'll never know for sure but I've imagined that Kull rides into these Proto-Stygian lands
--- Ixion ---




That's the thing: the people who would one day become the Stygians were a few thousand miles east of the Stagus. When their Lemurian (later, Hyrkanian and Khitan) slaves revolted, said proto-Stygians trekked west for thousands of miles and founded Stygia south of the Styx. There's zero need to slap Africa onto s-e Asia to accomplish what you're talking about. Have you read Howard's essay/guideline, "The HYborian Age"?

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#48 Jester

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

Hi everyone!
Here is my map of the Thurian age. Of course it is only one of the possible variants. I hope, it isn't so bad and not totally wrong.

Posted Image

Sorry for my Russian accent, guys. :/

#49 deuce

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:53 PM

Hi everyone!
Here is my map of the Thurian age. Of course it is only one of the possible variants. I hope, it isn't so bad and not totally wrong.

Posted Image

Sorry for my Russian accent, guys. :/


I hope, it isn't so bad and not totally wrong.



Surely you jest! ;) Wow. That is a very nice and quite accurate map. Much better than what's been published in the books and comics. B)

This has been a great week for Howardian cartography geeks, with your map coming hard on the heels of Trent's HA portalan.

We can discuss where we disagree here on this thread (my preference, so all members can see the process at work) OR we could exchange messages.

Welcome to the forum, Jester. :D

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#50 Jester

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:11 PM

That is a very nice and quite accurate map. Much better than what's been published in the books and comics. B)

Thank you for your warm response, Deuce! :)

We can discuss where we disagree here on this thread (my preference, so all members can see the process at work) OR we could exchange messages.

Yes, of course we can discuss here.

Welcome to the forum, Jester. :D

Thanks again ))

#51 theagenes

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:56 PM

Damn, the site is blocked at my work. I can't see it. I'll have to wait until I get home. <_<
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#52 Jester

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

Damn, the site is blocked at my work.

Oh, mea culpa. It is russian site :/

Maybe I need to upload the picture on "*.com" site?

#53 theagenes

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

I see it now. Very nice! :D
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#54 deuce

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:14 PM


That is a very nice and quite accurate map. Much better than what's been published in the books and comics. B)

Thank you for your warm response, Deuce! :)

We can discuss where we disagree here on this thread (my preference, so all members can see the process at work) OR we could exchange messages.

Yes, of course we can discuss here.


Great! :D However, I've got plenty of "real world" things going on this weekend as well as some ongoing discussions to address here on the Forum, so it might be a few days. If you haven't checked out the "Map of the Seven Empires" thread, you might want to do so. It contains my map and my reasons for placement.

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#55 Kane

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:01 AM

Jester,
I'm not by any means an expert on the lay out of the Seven Nations of Kull's world.
But I have to say that your map is one of the best looking ones I've ever seen created.
Hope you don't mind, but I'm going to snatch it for use in my homebrewed Kull rpg.
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#56 Axerules

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:26 PM

Welcome to the forum, Jester, and thanks for sharing! B)
Take arrows in your forehead, but never in your back

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#57 Almuric

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

That is a truly incredible map, Jester. B)
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"

Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."


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#58 RobP

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:15 AM

Nice work!

#59 Spartan198

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:27 PM

Welcome, comrade Jester. Great work on the map.
"What is good in life?... To crush your enemy, see him driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!" -- Conan of Cimmeria

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#60 Amra_the_Lion

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:21 PM

"It is the map of a world I do not know," said Xaltotun softly, but Orastes did not miss the lurid fire of hate that flickered in his dark eyes.
- The Hour of the Dragon


Like Xaltotun said it is a map I do not know since Robert E. Howard never provided us one and I have not taken the time to research possible Thurian Age locations like Deuce has. That being said however it is a great map based on aesthetics and cartographic design. Great job Jester.

Edited by Amra_the_Lion, 29 April 2012 - 04:23 PM.

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Amra's The Chronicles of Conan The Cimmerian: Determining the chronological order of Howard's Conan Tales