Jump to content


Photo

How Would REH Have Written Lord of the Rings


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#21 scifiguy

scifiguy

    Spear Carrier

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Longview, TX

Posted 26 June 2003 - 08:22 PM

...If Conan had been in the story, he might have been the Ring-Bearer as well as the swashbuckling hero, relying on his barbaric willpower to resist the blandishments of the Ring.  Finally he reaches Mt. Doom and hews his way through an army of Orcs to cast the Ring into the fires.

Aragorn might be depicted as a Royal Heir ...

I think you have a good point as to the characters modifications if written by REH. I'd go even further in that I think he would probably have combined several of the LOTR characters. Frodo and Aragorn could be easily combined into a single individual, almost Conan like. The hobbits, elves, fairies and other fantasy characters would become friendly human tribes and the orcs could be readily recognized as Picts. Thulsa Doom from the movie "CTB" (I hope nobody gets too upset about my mentioning THAT movie) could have replaced Saruman in the "LOTR" movies... same person, different names. Anyway, REH's version of LOTR would have been even more brooding than the original, dealt more with Frodo and his quest while eliminating most of the other sub plots and done away with most, if not all, of the "fantasy" characters (elves, hobbits, etc).

#22 Jason Durall

Jason Durall

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 119 posts

Posted 01 July 2003 - 10:34 PM

If REH had written The Lord of the Rings:

Aragorn/Strider would have been much tougher, and probably torn shirtless, or thrown in chains for part of the story.

The Hobbits would have been two nubile females.

Boromir and Aragorn would have had a showdown over the ring-bearer.

Legolas would have been from Khitai or a Bossonian archer. He would likely have died.

Gimli, a Gunderman. Probably would have died also.

Evil Orc sorcerers probably would have captured one of the nubile Hobbit wenches, and tried to sacrifice her while Aragorn was forced to look on, in chains.

The Balrog would have been an elder thing, probably formless. Aragorn would have wrestled it, and then Gandalf would have tried to jump in and they both would have been dragged over the edge.

Rightly, instead of a huge overland trek, someone would have suggested a boat.

At the end, when Aragorn and the two nubile females make their way into the volcano, the two women would fight over the ring, and one would fall into the lava with it.

#23 Ironhand

Ironhand

    The Mad Playwright

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,980 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Louis, MO, USA

Posted 02 July 2003 - 01:20 AM

If REH had written The Lord of the Rings:


At the end, when Aragorn and the two nubile females make their way into the volcano, the two women would fight over the ring, and one would fall into the lava with it.

That's great, very Howardian! The two women have been rivals for Aragornan's affection throughout the whole story. Finally, at the brink of Mt. Doom, Aragornan is fighting off an army of Orcs, and has to trust the women to dispose of the ring. The blonde wants to destroy the Ring, but the brunet says "I will have the whole world, and Aragornan too!" and grabs the Ring, but falls into the volcano.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#24 Jason Durall

Jason Durall

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 119 posts

Posted 02 July 2003 - 11:49 PM

That's great, very Howardian!  The two women have been rivals for Aragornan's affection throughout the whole story.  Finally, at the brink of Mt. Doom, Aragornan is fighting off an army of Orcs, and has to trust the women to dispose of the ring.  The blonde wants to destroy the Ring, but the brunet says "I will have the whole world, and Aragornan too!" and grabs the Ring, but falls into the volcano.

Genius!!!

#25 loonatik

loonatik

    Adventurer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 266 posts

Posted 03 July 2003 - 02:40 PM

That's great, very Howardian!  The two women have been rivals for Aragornan's affection throughout the whole story.  Finally, at the brink of Mt. Doom, Aragornan is fighting off an army of Orcs, and has to trust the women to dispose of the ring.  The blonde wants to destroy the Ring, but the brunet says "I will have the whole world, and Aragornan too!" and grabs the Ring, but falls into the volcano.

um,it is Aragorn and not Aragornan.
That's like Conanan the Barabarianan.
All fled--all done, so lift me on the pyre--
The Feast is over, and the lamps expire.

Robert E. Howard's last words



Look upon my Works,Ye Mighty,and Despair! - Ozymandias

#26 Ironhand

Ironhand

    The Mad Playwright

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,980 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Louis, MO, USA

Posted 03 July 2003 - 03:35 PM

Oops! I meant Conagorn.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#27 loonatik

loonatik

    Adventurer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 266 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:55 PM

*sigh* Whatever. <_<
All fled--all done, so lift me on the pyre--
The Feast is over, and the lamps expire.

Robert E. Howard's last words



Look upon my Works,Ye Mighty,and Despair! - Ozymandias

#28 Brule80

Brule80

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent, England.

Posted 18 September 2004 - 07:53 PM

No disrespect to Professor Tolkien of course.

But can anybody think of humorous ways REH characters would react in the Tolkien universe if universes were to collide!

For example, IMO shelob would be swiftly despatched by the broadsword of the Cimmerian!

#29 Hawklord

Hawklord

    Spear Carrier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 77 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FT. Wayne IN

Posted 19 September 2004 - 01:56 PM

Thoth-Amon, or any other REH wizard, would,probably, actually, cast some spells in the middle of a battle, unlike Gandalf . . .

#30 Yogah

Yogah

    Sage of the green planet Yag

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 485 posts

Posted 20 September 2004 - 12:23 PM

Here's a little thing I did for this thread.

Conan in The Hobbit:

Gollum: Voiceless it cries, Wingless flutters, Toothless bites, Mouthless mutters. If precious asssks, and it doesn't anssswer, we eatsss it, my preciousss.

Conan: Enough riddles, dog.

With one swift and powerful swipe of his broad sword, the Cimmerian separates Gollum's head from his body.

It struck me afterwards that this would cause problems for the plot of LoTR, as Sauron later learns about the whereabouts of the ring from Gollum. Oh well, I guess that's what happens if you shuffle the Cimmerian into the deck... :D
"... dreaming far-poised in the great blue vastness of Space."

#31 Brule80

Brule80

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent, England.

Posted 20 September 2004 - 07:59 PM

Well, I would imagine one could shuffle the plot quite considerably, imagine Sauron and Thulsa Doom, or Thoth-Amon doing a team-up!

Shelob mating with Oom the Unspeakable!

#32 Matt Spencer

Matt Spencer

    Spear Carrier

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 98 posts
  • Location:All over the place

Posted 21 September 2004 - 03:51 AM

Conan would bed all the maidens Aragorn was passing up 'cause he was hung up on Arwin. Then again, I always had a hunch that Legolas was doing much of such off-stage.
"I have lived in the Southwest all my life, yet most of my dreams are laid in cold, giant lands of icy wastes and gloomy skies, and of wild, wind-swept fens and wilderness over which sweep great sea-winds, and which are inhabited by shock-headed savages with light fierce eyes. With the exception of one dream, I am never, in these dreams of ancient times, a civilized man. Always am I the barbarian, the skin-clad, tousle-haired, light-eyed wild man, armed with a rude ax or sword, fighting the elements and wild beasts, or grappling with armored hosts marching with the tread of civilized discipline, from fallow fruitful lands and walled cities."
-- Robert E. Howard

<http://www.mattspencer.net>

#33 Woebringer

Woebringer

    Spear Carrier

  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 21 September 2004 - 02:27 PM

i once did a fan fict for another site that had strider and leglous fighting Dirzzt at a sifi convention in the food court, and they spilled Conan's beer! :o well if you want to read it i will post it here, Btw: I also wrote one about Conan Vs the Transformers :lol: it has the Elfquest elves :rolleyes: Data fron startreck, ME B) , and of course the transformers, I have not finished it yet but if you want to see it let me know, it is actualy ment to be serous <_<

#34 Athelstane

Athelstane

    Spear Carrier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eoforwic / Jórvík

Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

I'd love to see Conan going toe to toe with the Balrog. That would be one of the all time great fantasy match ups!

Could Conan have prevailed in that fight without the aid of sorcery?
Is cold steel and thews of iron enough to take down a Balrog? Mayhap not... but by Crom, Conan would try!

(Come to think of it, Solomon Kane vs Balrog would also be a great battle.)

Thoth-Amon vs Saruman would also be cool...
cwaedon thaet he waere wyruld-cyninga,
manna mildust ond mon-thwaerust,
leodum lithost ond lof-geornost.

#35 BarB

BarB

    Mauler of Shadizar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 718 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:30 PM

Very very interesting posts. I think the biggest differences though between the authors is that REH was writing for the pulp markets. The Hobbit which is the basis for LotR was a fairy tale designed for children and LotR was a fantasy designed as stories for them when they grew up. It’s like the difference between hard boiled detectives of the 1920s and 30s and Sherlock Holmes.

LotR is a book about the conglomeration of the many characters in Tolkien’s imagination. The posts here have been comparing it to Conan who is only one REH character. It’s difficult to compare short stories to a book which has the time and space to fully develop other characters. To be comparable, there would need to be a book by REH that included the characters in his imagination -- once that contained Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane, Turlogh, Dark Agnes, El Borak, Breckenridge Elkins, Steve Costigan, not to mention the horror stories and westerns. And this is not the complete list. I’m probably forgetting many of your favorite characters. But by putting them in separate kingdoms or areas that are more or less civilized than the others, much like Tolkien did for his, it’s feasible to write a quest book that includes all of those characters. And then when it's written, compare that book with LotR.

An equally interesting question: what would Conan et al would have been like had Tolkien written them?
BB

#36 guilalah

guilalah

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,238 posts

Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:48 AM

Hmmmm, if Howard did anything like LOTR, I certainly see his penchant for subterranean people figuring into it. Come to think of it, Gollum was rather of this sort. Very possibly such folk could have been like hobbits in their prehistory!

REH certainly could have handled an Eowyn type figure, and may even have had a female fighter in the fellowship.

Gimili would probably be replaced by a nordic type; or he could be a pictish character. .

I have a hard time seeing Howard making a wizard so central to the story as is Gandalf; though I certainly see the heroes recieving occult help, maybe by some sort of mythical dream figure.

'Shadows of the Vulture' shows Howard could certainly handle a seige.

Howard probably wouldn't have elves, but the Mak Morn writings show he could convey the sadness of a people who's time was passing.

I don't know that Howard would have afigure quite so powerful as Sauron. Xaltotun is a somewhat similar figure to Sauron, an extremely powerful force, slowly regaining strength and potentially capable of altering the history and character of the world.

I expect to Howard would find a place for an evil feminine a la Talesca or Akivasha; ([EDIT] perhaps Howard would have such a type, rather than Galadriel? (Shudder -- the weresnake woman from 'Worms of the Earth' in place of Galadriel)).

----

EDIT:

Oh, and Tom Bombadil might well turn into a Breckenridge Elkin's type!

Samwise might well be represented by a Sailor Steve Costigan-type character -- not as powerful as some characters, and not so analytical, but absolutely never-say-die.

Edited by guilalah, 03 May 2012 - 12:54 AM.


#37 BarB

BarB

    Mauler of Shadizar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 718 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:01 AM

I'm thinking more on different lines -- not comparing REH characters to the LotR characters, just to the settings and the depth and breadth of the novel. If REH had written a novel and put all the characters he created into one world, each in separate *kingdoms* or land, then we could compare LotR with this novel. Because that's what Tolkien did and it took three volumes to accomplish it. Right now, comparing one REH character -- the Conan short stories to LotR is like comparing apples and cheese or something similar. They're both food but very different.

There's another issue also because REH's characters are strong individuals. Tolkien's book is based on cooperation and fellowship. Two very different styles. But REH and Tolkien came from two different backgrounds. I don't think Tolkien would be able to write about someone like Conan. At least IMHO.

It would have been interesting to see what REH would have done with that novel about TX. The one he wanted to write but just couldn't get a handle on it.
BB



#38 RobP

RobP

    Mauler of Shadizar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 688 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:21 AM

Maybe one thing to bear in mind is that Tolkien had seen action on the Western front in WW1 and maybe had more insight into real war and the nature of comradeship and human frailty, whereas REH seemed more of a loner and (I mean this respectfully) fantasist

#39 RJMooreII

RJMooreII

    Der Einzige

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 327 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mindless Void

Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

Set
Have you ever read Toilkien? He has only influenced almost every writer in the business and many of their fantasy worlds. If you are a RPG game fan of any kind whether its D&D or ShadowRun or any other. you need to be thanking Mr. Toilkien because he single handledly defined all of the races and behaviors, ect that are used in these games and many writers books and worlds such as elves, dwarves, orcs, hobbits or haflings as they are called everywhere else.

That's not quite true. Gary Gygax @ Co. drew upon a lot of obscure mythology, theosophy and mysticism that went far and beyond Tolkein. Gygax's world is just as eclectic and original as Tolkein's, though not as well written. On top of that, the elements which do have analogues in LotR are quite a bit different. Tolkein's elves are hardly even related to the wizardly forest-people in most D&D settings, other than the fact that they usually have pointy ears.

As far as I am aware, Gygax' interest in weird dice stems from reading about the Platonic solids.

Edited by RJMooreII, 03 May 2012 - 12:49 PM.

"Never trust a wizard - even in death." - Grognak the Barbarian

#40 Ningauble

Ningauble

    Adventurer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 469 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:05 PM

TolkIEn. This always needs to be pointed out now and again. TolkIEn. Pronounced "toll-KEEN".