187 replies to this topic

[deuce]

Posted Yesterday, 07:09 AM
If you buy the idea that REH was influenced by Scott-Elliot's maps for the Thurian Age, then you might have a large continental Atlantis with it's eastern side being the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and it's western edge being the eastern US seaboard/Appalachians. This would be in contrast to a later smaller "Poseidonis" insular Atlantis. If so then you have, from left to right, Lemuria/Mu (Pacific), Pictish Isles (Rocky Mts.), Atlantean continent, then proto-Eurasia/Thurian Continent, without a whole lot of open ocean between land masses (plus plenty of islands presumably, as well as Kaa-u in there somewhere).

Hey Theagenes! I have to say that (IMO) Howard was only vaguely influenced by S-E's maps (though I think the influence was definitely there). REH's Atlantis doesn't seem particularly large (I'd say Australia-size, maybe a little bigger, tops). Spence never tried to imply that the western Atlantean littoral was anchored on the Appalachians. IMO, the Appalachians are where the "Kelts" Howard referred to (and the "pre-Indians" of The Dwellers Beneath the Tombs) originated/dwelt.

Between the "Appalachian Isles" and the Pictish Isles one has a lot of open water. But, it would appear that the "northern horn" of the "Southern Continent" (referenced in MotS) would provide an easy port for any mariners voyaging betwixt the two archipelagoes.

If the Lemurian Isles were anchored on the east by Hawaii and on the west by Ponape, then a Lemurian voyage/raid to the Isles of Sunset wouldn't be anything notable. There's evidence that Hawaiian mariners visited the Californian littoral numerous times.

Kaa-u would be represented by "Caribbean" isles such as Bal-Sagoth and Mogar.

[theagenes]

I agree, that S-E's maps only inspired REH (among other sources of inspiration), and I doubt he intended for Atlantis to be as large as S-E depicts in it's earliest phase either, but I we should keep that possiblity in mind. Spence, his other "Atlantean" source for MotS, also has Atlantis starting out as a continent with landbridges before it breaks up. So I do think REH had in mind a larger continental Atlantis for this early period as opposed to the smaller, insular Mid-Atlantic Ridge type Atlantis you get later in Moon of Skulls and the other "brown" Atlantean stories. Maybe Australia-sized as you suggest, maybe a little larger, maybe a little smaller, but continent-sized in any case. That was my basic point for the "Sea-faring" thread where this was originally posted.

I'm curious which Celts you're talking about. If you mean the ones in MotS, the context seems to suggest they are from Scandanavia or someplace similar. They come "from the North," from "the dim lands of MIghty Snows," and from the "the shores of the far North Sea." Of course those are post-cataclysm Celts. The Celts that are mentioned in passing in the untitled Kull frag aren't tied to any geographical location. Only that, like the Lemurian pirates, they occasionally come into conflict with the Picts. Taking everything together, unless I'm missing something, I would think Thule might be a better location for the homeland of the Thurian Age Celts. No real evidence for that---but it seems reasonable. Are there some Celts I'm forgetting?

"Dwellers" is a bit of an oddball story in that it's essentially a Children of the Night/People of the Dark story, but set in the Eastern US rather than Britain. It's a little tough to fit in with some with some of the other stories.

[deuce]

I agree, that S-E's maps only inspired REH (among other sources of inspiration), and I doubt he intended for Atlantis to be as large as S-E depicts in it's earliest phase either, but I we should keep that possiblity in mind. Spence, his other "Atlantean" source for MotS, also has Atlantis starting out as a continent with landbridges before it breaks up. So I do think REH had in mind a larger continental Atlantis for this early period as opposed to the smaller, insular Mid-Atlantic Ridge type Atlantis you get later in Moon of Skulls and the other "brown" Atlantean stories. Maybe Australia-sized as you suggest, maybe a little larger, maybe a little smaller, but continent-sized in any case. That was my basic point for the "Sea-faring" thread where this was originally posted.

I have no doubt that REH's Atlantis at one time sported land-bridges to (what would become) the Thurian continent. Still, there is little to indicate that Kull's Atlantis was larger than Australia. IMO, it was bigger than Madagascar but smaller than Australia. Honestly, the "continental" nature of Atlantis was tacked on after Plato, who seems to describe a large island with smaller isles attendant.

I'm curious which Celts you're talking about. If you mean the ones in MotS, the context seems to suggest they are from Scandanavia or someplace similar. They come "from the North," from "the dim lands of MIghty Snows," and from the "the shores of the far North Sea." Of course those are post-cataclysm Celts. The Celts that are mentioned in passing in the untitled Kull frag aren't tied to any geographical location. Only that, like the Lemurian pirates, they occasionally come into conflict with the Picts. Taking everything together, unless I'm missing something, I would think Thule might be a better location for the homeland of the Thurian Age Celts. No real evidence for that---but it seems reasonable. Are there some Celts I'm forgetting?

People keep trying to dump Kelts and Vikings into Thule. Howard stated that it was a Thurian kingdom (though one with Elder Hyperborean roots, IMO). The "Celts" of the fragment seem situated close enough to the Pictish Isles that "vagrants" could contribute to the gene pool. Neither Atlanteans, let alone "Thuleans" are named. Such Celts, based out of the Appalachian archipelago, would be a thousand miles closer to the Picts, They would also explain the Hyborian Age Ligureans.

"Dwellers" is a bit of an oddball story in that it's essentially a Children of the Night/People of the Dark story, but set in the Eastern US rather than Britain. It's a little tough to fit in with some with some of the other stories.

Far from being "oddball", the Conrad & Kirowan yarns tie the Conan and Kathulos tales (along with the BMM and Solomon Kane yarns) together. The pre-Indians of "Dwellers" make sense if they have a Thurian Age origin.

[theagenes]

I agree, that S-E's maps only inspired REH (among other sources of inspiration), and I doubt he intended for Atlantis to be as large as S-E depicts in it's earliest phase either, but I we should keep that possiblity in mind. Spence, his other "Atlantean" source for MotS, also has Atlantis starting out as a continent with landbridges before it breaks up. So I do think REH had in mind a larger continental Atlantis for this early period as opposed to the smaller, insular Mid-Atlantic Ridge type Atlantis you get later in Moon of Skulls and the other "brown" Atlantean stories. Maybe Australia-sized as you suggest, maybe a little larger, maybe a little smaller, but continent-sized in any case. That was my basic point for the "Sea-faring" thread where this was originally posted.

I have no doubt that REH's Atlantis at one time sported land-bridges to (what would become) the Thurian continent. Still, there is little to indicate that Kull's Atlantis was larger than Australia. IMO, it was bigger than Madagascar but smaller than Australia. Honestly, the "continental" nature of Atlantis was tacked on after Plato, who seems to describe a large island with smaller isles attendant.

I'm curious which Celts you're talking about. If you mean the ones in MotS, the context seems to suggest they are from Scandanavia or someplace similar. They come "from the North," from "the dim lands of MIghty Snows," and from the "the shores of the far North Sea." Of course those are post-cataclysm Celts. The Celts that are mentioned in passing in the untitled Kull frag aren't tied to any geographical location. Only that, like the Lemurian pirates, they occasionally come into conflict with the Picts. Taking everything together, unless I'm missing something, I would think Thule might be a better location for the homeland of the Thurian Age Celts. No real evidence for that---but it seems reasonable. Are there some Celts I'm forgetting?

People keep trying to dump Kelts and Vikings into Thule. Howard stated that it was a Thurian kingdom (though one with Elder Hyperborean roots, IMO). The "Celts" of the fragment seem situated close enough to the Pictish Isles that "vagrants" could contribute to the gene pool. Neither Atlanteans, let alone "Thuleans" are named. Such Celts, based out of the Appalachian archipelago, would be a thousand miles closer to the Picts, They would also explain the Hyborian Age Ligureans.

"Dwellers" is a bit of an oddball story in that it's essentially a Children of the Night/People of the Dark story, but set in the Eastern US rather than Britain. It's a little tough to fit in with some with some of the other stories.

Far from being "oddball", the Conrad & Kirowan yarns tie the Conan and Kathulos tales (along with the BMM and Solomon Kane yarns) together. The pre-Indians of "Dwellers" make sense if they have a Thurian Age origin.

I mean "oddball" in the sense that the other tales with the Children/PotD/Worms all take place in Britain, not that the Conrad & Kirowan tales are oddball in general---far from it; as you say they fit in well with the other yarns. And you're right a Thurian Age origin would explain it. On this side of the Atlantic you just the Indians drivign them underground instead of the Picts in the other stories.

[RJMooreII]

I have read most of the Kull stories by REH, but I was wondering if anyone has done any interesting work on the Pre-Hyborean age when Atlantis was still around, or the Nemedians and Old Stygia, etc. Obviously REH had other projects aside from flushing out the Kull setting, but I have to wonder if someone has produced interesting Conantic stuff along these lines.

Sometimes I like to imagine that the old Atlanteans were Melniboneans just for fanfic laughs.

[Kortoso]

Are you asking about pastiches?
Did you try searching before creating a new topic?

[deuce]

I have read most of the Kull stories by REH, but I was wondering if anyone has done any interesting work on the Pre-Hyborean age when Atlantis was still around, or the Nemedians and Old Stygia, etc. Obviously REH had other projects aside from flushing out the Kull setting, but I have to wonder if someone has produced interesting Conantic stuff along these lines.

If you're talking about Kull/Thurian Age pastiches, here's the thread: http://www.conan.com...topic=593&st=20

As far as "pre-Hyborian" history, that's what this thread looks into.

If by "Nemedians" you mean "Acheronians" they were (according to REH) a Hyborian race. Thus, their "age" would technically be the Hyborian Age.

The "Old Stygians" of Elder Stygia (at least the ruling class) would appear to be serpent-men. Later Stygians worshipped them, according to REH. Some interesting tales might be told of that period.

Sometimes I like to imagine that the old Atlanteans were Melniboneans just for fanfic laughs.

The "Brown/Imperial Atlanteans" from REH yarns like Moon of Skulls and Skull-Face certainly fit the bill. They even had a "Dragon Throne". I don't think Moorcock thought that up on his own.

[RJMooreII]

The "Brown/Imperial Atlanteans" from REH yarns like Moon of Skulls and Skull-Face certainly fit the bill. They even had a "Dragon Throne". I don't think Moorcock thought that up on his own.

Like Conan, King Elric wears black full plate.