309 replies to this topic

[MacBeth]

well theres nothing wrong with arguements,you make good points but you seem to either twist my words,or misread them.but a beard showed you were a man back then. you also look at the hun or mongel way of being a barbarian,not all were savages,goths were not savages,nor were scotsmen or many other peoples.you know what a roman considered a barb? anyone that wasent roman or greek... that was a barb to them,and look at a dictinonary at the word barbarian, here is a def for a barbarian from the dictinonary in the net(a member of a people considered by those of another nation,or a group of primitive civilization) 2nd one was your side(a firce,brutal,or cruel person) ,the first one is a goth and scotsmen and many other cultures,2nd one is a hun,mongel. some were savages(viking,mongel,hun) some just fought with each other and defended their land(most western cultures)

[budgie]

ok, here we go..

Chambers online English dictionary:

Barbarian:
1. a member of a group of people from a very different country or culture that is considered to be less socially advanced and more violent than your own
2. DISAPPROVING a person with little education who has no interest in art and culture

Savage (as relating to a person/people)
1 extremely violent, wild or fierce
2 very serious or cruel
3 very large and severe

as a noun [C] OFFENSIVE
a person whose way of life is at a very early stage of development.

Nope, sorry no mention of beards but I understand what Macbeth is trying to say.. basically you were not a man in some cultures unless you had a beard. true in some cases but not in all.

Funny thing is I had a laugh at the second description of barbarian.. its a very general but unaccurate statement. There were a lot of barbaric races that had a highly cultured and artistic way of life.. look at the art of the celts for instance, a very artistic people as are the various native American tribes yet both were considered barbaric savages.. My own nation has an equal amount of artistic and creative background yet still had a history of clan warfare..

I dont consider the Scots barbaric but then Im biased

Budgie

[Orkin]

Robert Howard described Conan as "clean-shaven", meaning he shaved.

Whether he used his broadrazor, er, sword, to do the job, or some keen blade in his belt pouch is a matter of speculation.

[Dragon Girl]

can anyone help me with my 'brazilian' trim ? 

I use wax for that.

[MacBeth]

what nation do you come from budgie? but yeah that was what im trying to say for the beards,and as I said a barbarian was a class of people back then,barbarians arent a race.yeah that 2nd def is wrong,the celtic and gaels were very good artists. but the scots were viewed as barbarians,you dont have to say they are. and anyone can be a savage.

[TroceroQuijas]

but the norse were very well known as barbarians,scottish were considered barbarains by the english and french and other higher up nations,irish too were among the barbarians to higher ups.and I really dont include the mongels and huns since they have a hard time gettin facial hair,but were very savage. just the scottish and norse were the ones I like the most.

Higher ups? And beards? to them you must qualify to be a barbarian huh MacBeth?

The mongols had beards and dont need your approval or beards to qualify as barbarians because Huns & Mongols were and are the personifications of a barbarian race.

Them "higher ups" were once also barbarians as all peoples once were. There just came a point in time when they thought they were better like a person who comes across wealth to look down on others

[MacBeth]

Them "higher ups" were once also barbarians as all peoples once were. There just came a point in time when they thought they were better like a person who comes across wealth to look down on others

and thats why they were called barbarians. thats how the romans were,they saw that anyone besides a greek and a roman was a barbarian,the one thing that confused me was that romans like to watch people kill each other in a ring,if that isnt barbaric what is? waht do you mean I qualify as a barbarian to them? and In one of my posts a barbarian isnt a race of people,if it was that way,it would be a mix of all those races into one super race.

[Kane]

I've been watching this thread with ever decreasing interest.
What I was hoping would be a stimulating debate on Howard's concepts of bararians has degraded into an arguement on which cultures were, or were not, considered barbarians.
The majority of the members here have a good working concepts of which cultures can be thought of as barbarians. We do not need to see it dragged out into a childish typing match as to weither the Huns, Mongols, Celts or Norse, were "real" barbarians.
Please get this back onto matters dealing with Howard's material or I will have to shut this down before it degenerates further.

[MacBeth]

I just found this out..... which may sound sad,the barbarians valued long hair alot as well,it was a social status thing,so the barbarains saw men with short hair as slaves or dishonoured men,so they thought the roman soldiers were slaves at first,when the barbarians first beat the romans they were scared,for they now feared how well the roman soldiers could fight,since their slaves fought very hard for some reason.I found that pretty funny,I just thought I should share that.

but it would make conan seem more of a barbarian to me if he had a beard,make him have more of a kick ass look. but conan is still cool all the same.

[budgie]

what nation do you come from budgie? but yeah that was what im trying to say for the beards,and as I said a barbarian was a class of people back then,barbarians arent a race.yeah that 2nd def is wrong,the celtic and gaels were very good artists. but the scots were viewed as barbarians,you dont have to say they are. and anyone can be a savage.

Macbeth, You asked what nation Im from!!

You say you are a fan of the Scots and the Irish yet you aint clicked..
Whats the flag at the bottom of my post? you know the fluttering yellow flag with the red rampant lion....

Ill tell ya..most folks on here know me and know how patriotic I am of my nation...

Im a Scotsman, born and bred...my sig is the Royal Scottish flag.. I dont fly the blue and white St Andrews cross as I am no christian so i feel it would be hypicitical to do so.. Given my choice I would fly my clan flag - a blue shield with 3 white stars.. Clan Murray.. but no-one does one that I have seen so my national flag does the job in the meantime....

Im a Scot who is reasonably knowlegable of his heratige and is proud (and protective) of it.. Are the Scots or Irish barbaric or savage? barbaric?, no.. even in thier old days.. yep, they were viewed as barbaric and uneducated by our Engish (attempted) oppressors but I dont view them so..

Scotland and its people have a rich and colourful heritage that i AM PROUD OF.. Savage, maybe, harsh times called for harsh methods and Im sure REH recognised this in his writings and study.. maybe its why he chose the celtic races as models for the Cimmerians..

The Scots, like the Irish have a long history of family and community.. you protect what is yours from those who would try to take it away and you make alliances with others for mutual advantage. Peace is neccesary for community growth as is tradition but given war then its a case of win only.. no comprimises.. thats where you get your savage from..

Sorry to go on about this constant self pride of my people to any members who are familiar with my views but it rubs me up the wrong way in the same way a pure REH fan views any later writings..

Budgie..
Scots wae hae

[MacBeth]

I assumed you were scottish but thought you could have been american,I also knew that flag was scottish but you could have just been a fan of scotland as well,I was just wondering. and you I just joined up,so I wouldnt have known you that well.I love my scottish familys history,and when I was younger I hated the english for what they did to the scots but thats over.when I get out of highschool I plan on going to scotland with my family for two weeks.

[Ironhand]

REH usually didn't mention the state of his male characters' facial hirsuitness. Someone else, perhaps Korak, observed that REH, with his economy of writing, usually didn't describe details unless said details had a function in the plot, as, for instance, the beard of Aram Baksh in "Shadows in Zamboula". REH did, in at least one story, describe Conan as, not beardless, but "clean shaven". In at least one story he mentions Conan's "hairy breast". However he did mention in "Frost Giant's Daughter" that the Aesir and Vanir had blonde and red beards, and elsewhere, maybe in "Scarlet Citadel", that Shemite soldiers had curled black beards. This seems to have been an effort to create a picture of racial characteristics.

The beard of Conan's father is an invention of Milius, who knows less about Conan than anyone who posts to this board. REH, the only final authority, never described Conan's father, except in a letter where he describes Conan's father as a blacksmith of "Herculean build". (IMHO, blacksmiths, who work in an atmosphere of flying sparks, have good reason to keep their hair and beards short.)

The mustache, and, later, beard, of Conan during his reign as king of Aquilonia, is an invention of L. Sprague deCamp, which was followed by Roy Thomas in Marvel Comics. But deCamp did imply that Conan grew facial hair, not to look like a Cimmerian, but to look like an Aquilonian.

[MacBeth]

there was this conan book,cant remeber which one,where conan met up with these barbarains who had greasy mustaches,and hair and prefered to be dirty,and these barbarains asked conan why he choose to remain clean,and all that sorta thing,so I say ironhand is right.

[nephron]

The most innane thread I've seen in a while...

http://forums.ageofc...88&page=1&pp=20

So dumb....like a car crash...."must not look, yet I cannot turn away!"

[Swiftsteel]

No kidding! Like...move out of your parent's basements folks! Man, how can people be so bloody pedantic!?!

[Kane]

Just to keep things in prespective. We've had topics about the same subject on this board. And if you follow that thread you'll see that some interesting information and some good explaniations have come up.

[Mikey_C]

I must be sad. I found it kind of interesting. Interesting too that I've never thought about it before. I've read weirder discussions of Elric of Melnibone's toilet habits.

[PainBrush]

Hahaha, that's great stuff ! Everyone knows Howard said that Conans grandfather wasn't originally a Cimmerian , he was adopted by them . What isn't shown on the well known map of Hyboria is how close the land mass was in the Northeast to pre-historic 'North America' . Like mine , Conans granddad was a Cherokee , so THAT's why he ain't got no whiskers ! hahahah .

I thought it interesting that someone on that board posted his opinion that most warriors didn't wear beards so no-one could grab hold of them in battle . Little guy's obviously never had to walk the violent path , & never read much about warrior cultures or even more modern armies .Most any warrior culture that banned long hair or whiskers was to stop lice , bedbugs & ticks among the soldiers out in the fields . That and to put the kibosh on strong individuality that goes against the grain of being a soldier , following orders & being one of the herd .

I haven't been a bouncer for a few months now , haven't needed to be even aggressive for any reason for a year or two besides even when I was still doorman/night-shift manager . & That was at Lilis21, the c.b.g.b.'s of Detroit populated by most or all the Detroit area loudmouthed punk-rock , drug-addicts ,drunks, metalhead thrashers & skinhead young bucks who were out & full of liquid courage & an itching to fight since they weren't mostly gonna get laid .I can tell you from experience if I was going to have to be in any kind of altercation asking a drunk or drunks to leave , if they decided the game's afoot , the best gift that drunk could give me would be to assume he could bend my neck by grabbing the braid that goes half down my back . That would be the last mistake of that drunks night by tyeing up one of his hands in an effort that wouldn't work for him anyway . & beards are even harder to grab right ?

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 21 August 2005 - 09:52 AM.

[Kortoso]

I thought it interesting that someone on that board posted his opinion that most warriors didn't wear beards so no-one could grab hold of them in battle . Little guy's obviously never had to walk the violent path , & never read much about warrior cultures or even more modern armies .Most any warrior culture that banned long hair or whiskers was to stop lice , bedbugs & ticks among the soldiers out in the fields . That and to put the kibosh on strong individuality that goes against the grain of being a soldier , following orders & being one of the herd .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Early on in the history of the armies of Imperial Rome, a Roman general (can't recall his name) commanded that all his troops go beardless, for the very reason quoted. This became army policy until the very end.

[Freebooter]

Hello all,
I just answered the post on another thread about what Conan looked like, about his height and build, etc.. I mentioned this there too but I wanted to post a post specifically about whether or not he was hairy or not since no one ever hardly mentions it.

Many of us erroneously picture him as some huge, smoothly muscled Frazetta type. But he was actually a very hairy man. Many of us overlook REHs description of Conan in one story as having a massive, hairy chest. Here is the quote, an excerpt from my file of Howard's descriptions:

Ch. III; "The Cliffs Reel":
1. "Wrenching away the bow and an arrow he staggered toward the opening of the pavilion. So formidable was his appearance, naked but for short leather breeks and sleeveless shirt, open to reveal his great, hairy chest, with his huge limbs and his blue eyes blazing under his tangled black mane,........".

Just thought I would post on the subject of his being a hair man as I have not seen it discussed before. Figured someone might find it interesting.
Take care,
Freebooter
Millbrook, Al..