Jump to content


Photo

Conan - His Hair And Whiskers


  • Please log in to reply
312 replies to this topic

#301 Ironhand

Ironhand

    The Mad Playwright

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Louis, MO, USA

Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

It seems to me, that in any combat sport that involves striking, you place yourself at a disadvantage by devoting one of your hands to pulling your opponent's hair.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#302 deuce

deuce

    The OG of "Psychotic Maladjustment"

  • Moderators
  • 12,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Serpent-haunted SEK, beside the Lake of the Mound

Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:11 PM

It seems to me, that in any combat sport that involves striking, you place yourself at a disadvantage by devoting one of your hands to pulling your opponent's hair.


Exactly. PB was a bouncer. I worked as one as well. Hair-pulling is an amateur's move (in my experience). In addition, how often did Conan fight mano a mano? Long hair is a positive benefit (from what I've seen/read) in a sword fight.

It's all about fashion (and conformity, as PB once noted), IMO.

Imagine that: "fashionistas" on the REH Forum. :rolleyes:

Support the Robert E. Howard Foundation. It helps you and Robert E. Howard's legacy.


#303 Dave the Rage

Dave the Rage

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:14 PM

I remember reading a book once that said long hair is like any evolutionary trait, it will stay current in the real world if needed. Then again fashion gurus can distort this and long hair will become a fashion and the men will run with it, like poddles! :)

Soldiers in war today in military service have short hair, why would that be? Around the world this is common....so is long hair a negative thing in fighting in the real world?

I think long hair is like the Heiki crab, if needed it would still be in style in the fighting armies. Then again if barbarians come down from the hills and invade the cities and conquer us, I will hide for a month and come out sporting long hair and growling. :P

Video Evolution of a Warrior
?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#304 deuce

deuce

    The OG of "Psychotic Maladjustment"

  • Moderators
  • 12,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Serpent-haunted SEK, beside the Lake of the Mound

Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:25 PM

Soldiers in war today in military service have short hair, why would that be? Around the world this is common....so is long hair a negative thing in fighting in the real world?


I'm tired. Here's a quote from Painbrush:

I thought it interesting that someone on that board posted his opinion that most warriors didn't wear beards so no-one could grab hold of them in battle . Little guy's obviously never had to walk the violent path , & never read much about warrior cultures or even more modern armies .Most any warrior culture that banned long hair or whiskers was to stop lice , bedbugs & ticks among the soldiers out in the fields . That and to put the kibosh on strong individuality that goes against the grain of being a soldier , following orders & being one of the herd .

I haven't been a bouncer for a few months now , haven't needed to be even aggressive for any reason for a year or two besides even when I was still doorman/night-shift manager . & That was at Lilis21, the c.b.g.b.'s of Detroit populated by most or all the Detroit area loudmouthed punk-rock , drug-addicts ,drunks, metalhead thrashers & skinhead young bucks who were out & full of liquid courage & an itching to fight since they weren't mostly gonna get laid .I can tell you from experience if I was going to have to be in any kind of altercation asking a drunk or drunks to leave , if they decided the game's afoot , the best gift that drunk could give me would be to assume he could bend my neck by grabbing the braid that goes half down my back . That would be the last mistake of that drunks night by tyeing up one of his hands in an effort that wouldn't work for him anyway . & beards are even harder to grab right ?

Support the Robert E. Howard Foundation. It helps you and Robert E. Howard's legacy.


#305 Dave the Rage

Dave the Rage

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:46 PM


Soldiers in war today in military service have short hair, why would that be? Around the world this is common....so is long hair a negative thing in fighting in the real world?


I'm tired. Here's a quote from Painbrush:

I thought it interesting that someone on that board posted his opinion that most warriors didn't wear beards so no-one could grab hold of them in battle . Little guy's obviously never had to walk the violent path , & never read much about warrior cultures or even more modern armies .Most any warrior culture that banned long hair or whiskers was to stop lice , bedbugs & ticks among the soldiers out in the fields . That and to put the kibosh on strong individuality that goes against the grain of being a soldier , following orders & being one of the herd .

I haven't been a bouncer for a few months now , haven't needed to be even aggressive for any reason for a year or two besides even when I was still doorman/night-shift manager . & That was at Lilis21, the c.b.g.b.'s of Detroit populated by most or all the Detroit area loudmouthed punk-rock , drug-addicts ,drunks, metalhead thrashers & skinhead young bucks who were out & full of liquid courage & an itching to fight since they weren't mostly gonna get laid .I can tell you from experience if I was going to have to be in any kind of altercation asking a drunk or drunks to leave , if they decided the game's afoot , the best gift that drunk could give me would be to assume he could bend my neck by grabbing the braid that goes half down my back . That would be the last mistake of that drunks night by tyeing up one of his hands in an effort that wouldn't work for him anyway . & beards are even harder to grab right ?

Nice write up on being a doorman too, but it still doesn't really answer the question from a scientific view point as I was pointing out in other post. The Heiki crab became common as Japanese fishermen threw them back into the water as they had a design of the samurai on the shell (taboo to eat them), thus the crab with that design flourished. What my point was that long hair is also a trait as the crabs shell is, and it has faded through time in the fighting man world. Is this an evolutionary trait of mans making, wonder if studies have been done on this one?

As for walking the path, I think I can claim that medal Painbrush too. I worked the pubs of Belfast for 10 years, boxed for 15 and did other amounts of fighting here and there in the real world. One of my colleagues was shot 6 times and lived, have had gun pulled to face and disarmed guy, knife pulled in A&E, and used tact to disarm, (put doctors coat on and pretended to do a physical on crazy guy out of his nugget on shi%t then disarmed him). I had to cut my hair as I was ambushed by 4 guys who used my hair to entrap me(spun me round till their hand was snared in my hair) and beat with a chain, I did managed to get free and went up a few notches and destroyed the 3 of them the other with weapon ran off. I can honestly say that if you think longhair is not a disadvantage in the fighting world you need to come walk the walk and see it for yourself. I am a short haired rocker now and have been a Metallica fan since 80's and it pained me getting it chopped, but working the door and security for a major A&E hospital was no fun when dicks latched onto your hair like flies to sh&t when out of their heads on PCP etc, no fun losing roots and scalp at all. :)

But if you wanna look cool and rocking then no harm in that, but once you enter the fighting world every advantage to the enemy is your disadvantage so you need to get the tools to deal with the what might go wrong, I am in my 40's now and took up Jujitsu as something to help me get even, my stamina has gone downhill as I now am not as young as I was, but I still love getting in the face of the scum on the streets...... Conan style!! ;)

Edited by Dave the Rage, 11 March 2012 - 09:53 PM.

?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#306 Dave the Rage

Dave the Rage

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:45 PM

I went and had a look around the web to get a feel for the history of longhair in battle and it is mentioned in passing by most thesus on the subject of fighting man, but one interesting doc pointed out that 1 spartan fighting man was equivalent to 3 fighting men in Alexanders army. They sported longhair as they would not conform to Alexander and he never joined his wars. Hence the rebel with long hair title lol; in annoyance Alexander supposedly sent back ornamentse and gold with engreavings for the peoples and adding not for Spartans. nasty

Exert:
The Spartans used the same typical hoplite equipment as the other Greek neighbors; the only distinctive Spartan features were the crimson tunic (chitōn) and cloak (himation),[34] and the long hair, which the Spartans retained to a far later date than most Greeks. To the Spartans, the long hair retained its older Archaic meaning as the symbol of a free man; to the other Greeks by the 5th century, its peculiar association with the Spartans had come to signify pro-Spartan sympathies.

Edited by Dave the Rage, 11 March 2012 - 10:46 PM.

?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#307 Dave the Rage

Dave the Rage

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:00 PM

Just had a read through some martial art links on longhair. Interesting merits for and against.

http://www.martialar...hp/t-47215.html
?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#308 Roargathor

Roargathor

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 172 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

I don't know if anyone touched on this or not, but Conan usually fought with weapons. His opponents often had weapons too. He wasn't too worried about grappling in most cases. His fighting experience was rarely if even a controlled match like an MMA boxing match. Perhaps also that in Howard's mind, Hyborea wasn't a place for hair pulling (unless you're a honorless man-ape). Vikings, Spartans, Gauls, Huns, Celts, Chinese and japanese warriors all wore long hair into battle. In those days, if your enemy was close enough to grab your hair, he was already run through by your sword, or you're doing it wrong.

#309 deuce

deuce

    The OG of "Psychotic Maladjustment"

  • Moderators
  • 12,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Serpent-haunted SEK, beside the Lake of the Mound

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:17 AM

I don't know if anyone touched on this or not, but Conan usually fought with weapons.


Yeah, I mentioned it in Post #302. Still, always cool to have the point reiterated.

His opponents often had weapons too. He wasn't too worried about grappling in most cases. His fighting experience was rarely if even a controlled match like an MMA boxing match. Perhaps also that in Howard's mind, Hyborea wasn't a place for hair pulling (unless you're a honorless man-ape). Vikings, Spartans, Gauls, Huns, Celts, Chinese and japanese warriors all wore long hair into battle. In those days, if your enemy was close enough to grab your hair, he was already run through by your sword, or you're doing it wrong.


I agree.

Support the Robert E. Howard Foundation. It helps you and Robert E. Howard's legacy.


#310 Dave the Rage

Dave the Rage

    WarLord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

The key words, in them days. Correct, but the merits of longhair in battle now are unjustified as the hair could blow into a sight just as your about to pop the sucker. Though I'm sure many fights like the wild west were sorted out with fists and no queensbury rules. I cant amagine Conan getting bested by a civilised street fighter like Steve Costigan :)

Edited by Dave the Rage, 18 March 2012 - 03:11 PM.

?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#311 deuce

deuce

    The OG of "Psychotic Maladjustment"

  • Moderators
  • 12,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Serpent-haunted SEK, beside the Lake of the Mound

Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:28 AM

A letter from Robert E. Howard, circa late 1929:

 

"Give me a rough, tough brutal story, quick action and a gang of hard-boiled hairy chested eggs: George Bancroft; Matthew Betz; Lionel Barrymore; Vic McLaglen, who once fought Jack Johnson..."


Support the Robert E. Howard Foundation. It helps you and Robert E. Howard's legacy.


#312 constantine

constantine

    Mauler of Shadizar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 568 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece

Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

I went and had a look around the web to get a feel for the history of longhair in battle and it is mentioned in passing by most thesus on the subject of fighting man, but one interesting doc pointed out that 1 spartan fighting man was equivalent to 3 fighting men in Alexanders army. They sported longhair as they would not conform to Alexander and he never joined his wars. Hence the rebel with long hair title lol; in annoyance Alexander supposedly sent back ornamentse and gold with engreavings for the peoples and adding not for Spartans. nasty
 

 

Alexander himself introduced the shaved-adult-male fashion. Until he did almost all adult males in Greece (and in many other cultures) were bearded or bore mustaches at least. Apparently, the image of a successful, regularly shaved conqueror changed the fashion for some folks.

 

As for the Spartans, the purported reason for not joining the Pan-Hellenic war against Persia was that they wouldn't follow another's leadership and not Alexander's haircut regulations. Who wouldn't want a crack contingent of Spartans in his army, be they long-haired or not? His well-attested response was to sent to Athens 300 Persian shields from the Granicus battlefield with the inscription: ''Alexander son of Philip and the Greeks except the Spartans from the barbarians who live in Asia''. These were placed in plain view on the Parthenon.

 

BTW, I strongly believe that Alexander's veterans were more than a match for any foe, Spartans included.



#313 Lunatic

Lunatic

    Mauler of Shadizar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 792 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:unknown..so unknown

Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:26 PM

I´ve always thought longhaired guys look dangerous. I heard that was the spartan view as well.

 

But there are plenty of things to grab, not just hair right? Clothes ears, noses. I am just a balled guy sitting at home reading stuff, not expirienced in barfights and such. But, grabbing and fixing the head, standing fight like thaiboxing or on the ground wrestling seem to be a real advantage. At least unarmed or close in.

 

But the pain I thinks, from hairpulling would not bother Conan much. There was that ape who pulled a fistful of hair out of him in one story. I think he was complaining about his new looks more than agony, though. Maybe Conan would just jerk his head and pull his own hair out, rather than get tangled in.

 

About the beard I dont know, but Conan is beardless or shaves. Could you hold a guy by the beard and just yank it, dislocating the jaw? :) But good hair and beard would probably help when it is really cold outside. And cushion blows.