[foxford]

Quote

There was also another Conan, namely, mac Morna, who was big and bald, and unwieldy in manly exercises, but whose tongue was bitter and scurrilous; no high or brave thing was done that Conan the Bald did not mock and belittle. It Is said that when he was stripped he showed down his back and buttocks a black sheep's fleece instead of a man's skin,

http://www.sacred-te...mlcr/mlcr06.htm

LOL

This Conan turns up in the Ulster Cycle and The Fianna A far cry from the hero we all know and love.

I wonder where Robert Ervin Howard got the name from?

[Swiftsteel]

Conan is actually a very common name in Old Irish. Howard probably just liked the way it rolled off the tongue so to speak. Same goes for Cormac, Turlough, and Bran for that matter. Kull is not taken from any 'real' historical culture or language that I know of. It does have a sort of pseudo-Celtic ring to it though. Kane is more of an Anglo Saxon name if I'm not mistaken.

Any more knowledgeable linguists out there with thoughts to add???

[daknight]

You are right Swiftsteel. There are many Conan-s or variations of Conan as a name in Celtic history. There was a film director of the 20s and 30s named Edward A. Kull. I always thought Solomon Kane's name was kind of a pun in ways by Howard -- I mean you have a a character who is wandering around Africa with the wand/staff/CANE of King SOLOMON? And then there is CAIN from the book of Genesis, which would be an odd pick for a name to be given by Puritan parents.

[Kortoso]

Swiftsteel, on Dec 3 2005, 09:20 PM, said:

Any more knowledgeable linguists out there with thoughts to add???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not so much a question of lingustics.
Wikipedia gives us eight historical Conans:
* Conan I (Le Torte), 927-992, duke of Brittany and of Rennes.
* Conan II (Le Petit), 1128-1171, duke of Brittany.
* Conan III (Le Gros) 1096-1148, duke of Brittany.
* Conan IV, + 1171, duke of Brittany.
* Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859 - 1930, British author of fantasy and detective novels
* Conan Nado, 1955 -, musician, guitarist
* Conan O'Brien, 1963 -, American comedian and talk show host
* Conan Neutron, 1977 -, musician, writer and activist
Four mythical Conans:
* Conand, King of the piratical Fomoraig of the Irish myth.
* Conán Maol, warrior of the Fianna in the Irish myth. Rescued from Tir na Tairngire by Fionn mac Cumhail.
* Conan Mac Lia, Lord of Luachar; ally of the mythical war leader Fionn mac Cumhail.
* A war leader that makes an alliance with Cadwallader in the prophecies of Merlin (Historia Regum Britanniae vii, 3). Together they slaughter the foreigners until the rivers run with blood. One of Conan's descendants will be a "huge boar" that fights in Gaul and is feared by the Africans and the Arabs. Maybe identical with Conan Meriadoc.
And a couple of "semi-historical" Conans:
* Conan Meriadoc (middle Welsh Kynan Meriadoc, modern Breton Konan Meriadek), * ca. 305, + ca. 395 AD, legendary first Duke of Brittany.
* Aurelius Conanus, nephew and successor to Constantine as king of the Britons for three years at the end of the 6th century AD according to Geoffrey of Monmouth.

The question is which Conan you choose to focus on.

[korak]

daknight writes-And then there is CAIN from the book of Genesis, which would be an odd pick for a name to be given by Puritan parents.


Maybe that is why they named him Solomon instead.

Not to mention how awkward it would sound if he were

Cain Kane.

This post has been edited by korak_the_killer: 05 December 2005 - 08:08 AM

[foxford]

Crom is also from irish legends but the name is Crom Cruach Who was an evil wizard/Demigod

http://www.pantheon....rom_cruach.html

There is also a stone circle associated with crom in the Rep Of Ireland

"Crom Cruach, or Cromm Crúac means bloody crescent or bloody bent one "

I think i will worship the everlasting sky, This Crom sounds like a bad one.

[daknight]

korak_the_killer, on Dec 5 2005, 05:43 AM, said:

daknight writes-And then there is CAIN from the book of Genesis, which would be an odd pick for a name to be given by Puritan parents.


Maybe that is why they named him Solomon instead. 

Not to mention how awkward it would sound if he were

Cain Kane. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I meant at some point when last names were picked, when that became standard, why, that one? If one was a Puritan would one not take on a new name, other than anything based off Cain? But, un-seriously, Cain Kane would be funny.

[korak]

I didn't know you got to pick your last name! I didn't get to pick mine dang it! Did you?

Seriously though, for one thing, the puritan movement began in England during the time of Henry the VIII, and by that time most people already had long standing last names. Besides, there may be no linguistic relationship between Cain and Kane-- they probably have entirely different root meanings, one from Hebrew and the other from Old English. IN addition, the word cane also means a type of plant.

This post has been edited by korak_the_killer: 06 December 2005 - 02:01 AM

[daknight]

korak_the_killer, on Dec 6 2005, 01:56 AM, said:

I didn't know you got to pick your last name! I didn't get to pick mine dang it! Did you? 

Seriously though, for one thing, the puritan movement began in England during the time of Henry the VIII, and by that time most people already had long standing last names. Besides, there may be no linguistic relationship between Cain and Kane-- they probably have entirely different root meanings, one from Hebrew and the other from Old English. IN addition, the word cane also means a type of plant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are times through history where people have changed their last names. The study of genologies presents this. Someone who entered the Puritan movement having a pre-existing name that would have negative conotations, one would think would change it, out of propriety, if not spiritual impetus. Perhpas I am just reading more irony into Howard's work than is there?

[korak]

daknight writes- There are times through history where people have changed their last names. The study of genologies presents this. Someone who entered the Puritan movement having a pre-existing name that would have negative conotations, one would think would change it, out of propriety, if not spiritual impetus. Perhpas I am just reading more irony into Howard's work than is there?


It is quite possible that Howard intentionally included the allusion to Cain, since Solomon is a restless, wandering adventurer. I think you are putting too much negative connotation on the Biblical character, because even though he was the first murderer, God did not strike him dead nor would he allow anyone else to kill him. Cain, like Adam and Eve, made a childish mistake, the first of its kind. But no sin is unforgivable in the Bible, including murder.

There is a lot of legal and traditional sentiment for one's family name, and the simple fact that Cain is a homonym (is that the word for two words that sound the same but have different meanings? Whatever) with Kane does not make them the same word. I know guys named Dick, Peter and John, and they don't let unfortunate connotations spoil the beauty of those classic names. I would be amazed to hear that a family had changed its name over this issue. Puritans were not superstitious types at all, they were "purists" who fought superstitious traditions. I don't think that this kind of thing would enter their heads. I seriously doubt that they would name their son Cain, but that is about it. There is no Biblical evidence that Cain is in Hell.

[Buxom Sorceress]

foxford, on Dec 5 2005, 07:49 AM, said:

Crom is also from irish legends but the name is Crom Cruach Who was an evil wizard/Demigod

http://www.pantheon....rom_cruach.html
There is also a stone circle associated with crom in the Rep Of Ireland

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for the info + link. that site is good + very interesting.

i like this entry i found there..
..*Cimmerians - by Ryan Tuccinardi
A mythical tribe who lived at the end of the world in a place of mists and darkness, where the sun never arrived. These people were popular in Greece and many stories were crafted. They were believed to be the ancestors of the Scythians or the Celts.*

visiting the actual temples of the gods in greece was a wonderful experience for me.
+ i can still feel the ancient powers when i touch the standing stones + circles in the many sites we have in the uk.
----
hey DAKNIGHT + KORAK, the only 'mark of cain' i know leaves a red weal?
----
thanks to all for the variety of info.

This post has been edited by Buxom Sorceress: 07 December 2005 - 04:12 PM

[daknight]

korak_the_killer, on Dec 7 2005, 09:02 AM, said:

daknight writes- There are times through history where people have changed their last names. The study of genologies presents this. Someone who entered the Puritan movement having a pre-existing name that would have negative conotations, one would think would change it, out of propriety, if not spiritual impetus. Perhpas I am just reading more irony into Howard's work than is there?


It is quite possible that Howard intentionally included the allusion to Cain, since Solomon is a restless, wandering adventurer. I think you are putting too much negative connotation on the Biblical character, because even though he was the first murderer, God did not strike him dead nor would he allow anyone else to kill him. Cain, like Adam and Eve, made a childish mistake, the first of its kind. But no sin is unforgivable in the Bible, including murder.

There is a lot of legal and traditional sentiment for one's family name, and the simple fact that Cain is a homonym (is that the word for two words that sound the same but have different meanings? Whatever) with Kane does not make them the same word. I know guys named Dick, Peter and John, and they don't let unfortunate connotations spoil the beauty of those classic names. I would be amazed to hear that a family had changed its name over this issue. Puritans were not superstitious types at all, they were "purists" who fought superstitious traditions. I don't think that this kind of thing would enter their heads. I seriously doubt that they would name their son Cain, but that is about it. There is no Biblical evidence that Cain is in Hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay. The restless, wanderer allusion does certainly work. And it could very well be that that was all there was to it.

[Ant]

daknight, on Dec 7 2005, 08:16 PM, said:

... Okay.  The restless, wanderer allusion does certainly work.  And it could very well be that that was all there was to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just as with Karl Edward Wagner's Kane.

Cheers,
Ant

[korak]

In fact, I think that a Puritan family would like the name based on the resemblance to the cane plant, which is tall and straight and rigid. Also, the cane was a useful implement in disciplining Puritan youths, and Kane himself could be seen symbolically as the cane stick God wields against demons.

Not to mention the fact that Kane himself carried a magical african walking cane.

This post has been edited by korak_the_killer: 08 December 2005 - 01:33 AM

[Valin]

daknight, on Dec 5 2005, 08:18 PM, said:

  But, un-seriously, Cain Kane would be funny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Solomon's sweet sister, Candy?

[Buxom Sorceress]

Valin, on Dec 8 2005, 08:10 PM, said:

daknight, on Dec 5 2005, 08:18 PM, said:

  But, un-seriously, Cain Kane would be funny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Solomon's sweet sister, Candy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CANDYE KANE was a massively buxom usa porn star who now sings blues music with her guitar + band.

http://www.candyekane.com/

[ u can imagine the shocked dissaproval of her 'strict older brother Soloman'..?! ]

This post has been edited by Buxom Sorceress: 10 December 2005 - 01:26 AM