320 replies to this topic

[Ironhand]

There's sort of a dichotomy here; many of us maintain a sort of deliberate schizophrenia between true science and REH's pseudohistory. We have an interest in both.

>Earliest modern humans in Europe found


By Tony Fitzpatrick


Sept. 22, 2003 ~{!*~} A research team co-directed by Erik Trinkaus, Ph.D., professor of anthropology at Washington University in St. Louis, has dated a human jawbone from a Romanian bear hibernation cave to between 34,000 and 36,000 years ago. That makes it the earliest known modern human fossil in Europe.

Other human bones from the same cave -- a temporal bone, a facial skeleton and a partial braincase -- are still undergoing analysis, but are likely to be the same age. The jawbone was found in February 2002 in Pestera cu Oase ~{!*~} the "Cave with Bones" ~{!*~} located in the southwestern Carpathian Mountains. The other bones were found in June 2003.


Erik Trinkaus
A human jawbone (left), dated to between 34,000 and 36,000 years ago, along with a facial skeleton (center) and a temporal bone (right), both of which are still undergoing analysis, but are likely to be the same age as the jawbone.
The results on the jawbone will be published the week of Sept. 22 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (PNAS; www.pnas.org) Online Early Edition. A report on the other bones will appear in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Human Evolution (http://www.sciencedi...ournal/00472484). The finds should shed much-needed light on early modern human biology.

"The jawbone is the oldest directly dated modern human fossil," said Trinkaus, the Mary Tileston Hemenway Professor of Anthropology in Arts & Sciences. "Taken together, the material is the first that securely documents what modern humans looked like when they spread into Europe. Although we call them 'modern humans,' they were not fully modern in the sense that we think of living people."

To determine the fossils' implications for human evolution, Trinkaus and colleagues performed radiocarbon dating of the jawbone (dating of the other remains is in progress) and a comparative anatomical analysis of the sample. The jawbone dates from between 34,000 and 36,000 years ago, placing the specimens in the period during which early modern humans overlapped with late surviving Neandertals in Europe.

Most of their anatomical characteristics are similar to those of other early modern humans found at sites in Africa, in the Middle East and later in Europe, but certain features, such as the unusual molar size and proportions, indicate their archaic human origins and a possible Neandertal connection.

The researchers document that these early modern humans retained some archaic characteristics, possibly through interbreeding with Neandertals. Nevertheless, because few well-dated remains from this period have been found, the fossil remains help to fill in an important phase in modern human emergence.


David Kilper/WUSTL Photo
Erik Trinkaus, professor of anthropology in Arts & Sciences at Washington University in St. Louis, with a human jawbone from a Romanian bear cave. The jawbone was dated to between 34,000 and 36,000 years ago, making it the earliest known modern human fossil in Europe.
Download high resolution image
"The specimens suggest that there have been clear changes in human anatomy since then," said Trinkaus. "The bones are also fully compatible with the blending of modern human and Neandertal populations. Not only is the face very large, but so are the jaws and the teeth, particularly the wisdom teeth. In the human fossil record, you have to go back a half-million years to find a specimen that has bigger wisdom teeth."

The jawbone was found by three Romanian cavers, who contacted Oana Moldovan, director of the Institutul de Speologie, a cave research institute in Cluj, Romania. Moldovan in turn, recognizing the importance of the jawbone, contacted Trinkaus.

The two met in Europe in May 2002, and Trinkaus brought the jawbone temporarily to Washington University for analysis. Trinkaus, Moldovan, the cavers and Ricardo Rodrigo, a Portuguese archaeologist, returned to the cave in June 2003 to produce a map and survey the cave's surface. In the process, the cavers and Rodrigo found the facial skeleton, temporal bone and other pieces that are now undergoing analysis.

Since then, Trinkaus and Moldovan have assembled an international team to document and excavate the cave and analyze the material after it comes out from the cave. The cave was primarily used for bear hibernation. It is not known how the human bones got into the cave, but Trinkaus says one possibility is that early humans used the cave as a mortuary cave for the ritual disposal of human bodies. Some of the bear bones were rearranged by humans, documenting past human activities in the cave.

"The jaw was originally found sitting by itself; the material this summer was found mixed up with bear bones," Trinkaus said. "After they found the face, they collected everything on the surface that might be human, packaged it up and brought it out of the cave. Some of the pieces that they carried out of the cave are, in fact, bear. We know that more of the skull is in the same place, but it was buried or not recognized at the time."

The team plans to return to Romania next summer to continue the scientific analysis of the cave and its contents.

[Dragon Girl]

This is always an interesting subject to me. They're always finding new evidence that human civilization goes back farther than previously thought. There's still considerable doubt as to Neanderthal's connection to humans--were they our ancestors, or were they just another branch of the human family tree?

[Orkin]

There was a tv documentary on recently about stone age people, how they found clay figurines in a paleolithic find, one of which had been set on some kind of woven fabric when it was wet, some might know the weave as sprang or naalbinding. The documentary then went on to show the cavemen with looms, which isn't needed for this kind of work. But, yes, interesting how the dates keep getting pushed back. Makes ya think...

[Orkin]

Forbidden Archeology

Over the past two centuries researchers have found bones and artifacts showing that people like ourselves existed on earth millions of years ago. But the scientific establishment has ignored these remarkable facts because they contradict the dominant views of human origins and antiquity. Cremo and Thompson challenge us to rethink our understanding of human origins, identity, and destiny. Forbidden Archeology takes on one of the most fundamental components of the modern scientific world view, and invites us to take a courageous first step towards a new perspective.

In 1979, researchers at the Laetoli, Tanzania, site in East Africa discovered footprints in volcanic ash deposits over 3.6 million years old.  Mary Leakey and others said the prints were indistinguishable from those of modern humans. To these scientists, this meant only that the human ancestors of 3.6 million years ago had remarkably modern feet. But ccording to other scientists, such as physical anthropologist R. H. Tuttle of the University of Chicago, fossil bones of the known australopithecines of 3.6 million years ago show they had feet that were distinctly apelike. Hence they were incompatible with the Laetoli prints. In an article in the March 1990 issue of Natural History, Tuttle confessed that "we are left with somewhat of a mystery." It seems permissible, therefore, to consider a possibility neither Tuttle nor Leakey mentioned--that creatures with anatomically modern human bodies to match their anatomically modern human feet existed some 3.6 million years ago in East Africa. Perhaps, as
suggested in the illustration on the opposite page, they coexisted with more apelike creatures. As intriguing as this archeological possibility may be, current ideas about human evolution forbid it.

Spooky stuff.

[Dragon Girl]

I've seen that website. They have some cool stuff there, such as a toxodon bone with an arrow point stuck in it. Toxodons lived in what is now South America around 4 million years ago, and humans weren't supposed to have arrived there till about 40,000 years ago; so how did the arrow end up in the animal's femur? Either there were toxodons still living here when humans arrived, or else humans have been around a lot longer than we ever realized.

[Kortoso]

Tools unlock secrets of early man

New research shows early humans were living in Britain around 700,000 years ago, substantially earlier than had previously been thought.

[Taranaich]

THE LITTLE PEOPLE!!!

[Argrath Dragonspear]

Before much data was both censored and suppressed, there were finds in Ightham, Kent of flints bearing marks which indicated they had been deliberately flaked dated to......
At least 12 million years ago!
If you would like to read a scholarly work on evidence for man being much older than is claimed, using recorded findings and research then I can only recommend you read the book 'Forbidden Archeology'.

[PainBrush]

I won't get into any personal beliefs or opinions on the subject except to say , that kind of 'pseudo-science' muddies the waters of 'concrete' evidence & good science . The 'stone' is 780,000 years old , or the one mentioned above at 12 'million' years , but the fact that the only evidence of 'human' interaction is that there were "nearby" -or even in the 'same' area , - some teeth from a species of 'water-vole' -which they have no idea of when it first appeared or when it actually might have died off or went extinct ?? Or if the teeth were actually dug up at a much later date (by whoever did any 'alleged' prehistoric flaking) & were 'incidental' . & in the 12 million year theory mentioned above , the only evidence is that they 'bear marks' which 'might' indicate they were flaked by humans , in neither case any mention of tests to see "what" they may have been flaked 'with' or 'against' -or any proof whatso-ever including carbon-dating of any 'surfaces' or any chromatography or anything . - They do indeed look 'flaked' or napped , but there's nothing to say how they were buried or by who knows 'what' circumstances & no proof that besides they may be on 12-million year old rocks ,- but were napped only a hundred or 2 years ago , or even 6,000 years ago ?!!?

That Forbidden Archaeology sounds like a good book , hadn't heard of that before . I have it on my short list , thanks .

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 19 December 2005 - 01:30 AM.

[Kortoso]

Before much data was both censored and suppressed, there were finds in Ightham, Kent of flints bearing marks which indicated they had been deliberately flaked dated to......
At least 12 million years ago!
If you would like to read a scholarly work on evidence for man being much older than is claimed, using recorded findings and research then I can only recommend you read the book 'Forbidden Archeology'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I know from my academic friends, it's not as much a conscious suppression, as a system that doesn't support new discoveries as much as they think they do.

[Ironhand]

When killer kangaroos roamed the earth
Australian paleontologists find traces of demon ducks, other species
Reuters


Updated: 12:44 a.m. CT July 12, 2006
SYDNEY, Australia - Forget cute, cuddly marsupials. Paleontologists say they have found the fossilized remains of a fanged killer kangaroo and what they describe as a "demon duck of doom."

A University of New South Wales team said the fearsome fossils were among 20 previously unknown species uncovered at a site in Australia's northwest Queensland state.

Professor Michael Archer said Wednesday that the remains of a meat-eating kangaroo with wolflike fangs were found, as well as a galloping kangaroo with long forearms that could not hop like a modern kangaroo.

"Because they didn't hop, these were galloping kangaroos, with big, powerful forelimbs. Some of them had long canines (fangs) like wolves," Archer told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

Vertebrate paleontologist Sue Hand said modern kangaroos look almost nothing like their ferocious forebears, which lived between 10 million and 20 million years ago.

The species found at the dig had "well muscled-in teeth, not for grazing. These things had slicing crests that could have crunched through bone and sliced off flesh," Hand said.

The team also found prehistoric lungfish and large ducklike birds.

"Very big birds ... more like ducks, earned the name 'demon duck of doom', some at least may have been carnivorous as well," Hand told ABC radio.

Archer said the team was studying the fossils to better understand how they were affected by changing climates in the Miocene epoch between 5 million and 24 million years ago.

Copyright 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
URL: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13825566/

[Taranaich]

Nice find, although carnivorous marsupials have been known for a while now, including a few carnivorous kangaroos like Propleopus oscillans. There was also Thylacosmilus, a marsupial that looked a dead-ringer for a sabertooth. Demon Ducks of Doom are news to me though.

A nice site for marsupial megafauna with illustrations can be found here.

[Ironhand]

Remains of giant camel discovered in Syria

October 06 2006 at 07:55PM

By Khaled Yacoub Oweis

Damascus - Swiss researchers have discovered the 100 000-year-old remains of a previously unknown giant camel species in central Syria.

"This is a big discovery, a revolution in science,". Professor Jean-Marie Le Tensorer of the University of Basel told Reuters. "It was not known that the dromedary was present in the Middle East more than 10 000 years ago."

"Can you imagine? The camel's shoulders stood three metres high and it was around four metres tall, as big as a giraffe or an elephant. Nobody knew that such a species had existed."

It attracted migrating herds, such as antelope, and man
Tensorer, who has been excavating at the desert site in Kowm since 1999, said the first large bones were found some years ago but were only confirmed as belonging to a camel after more bones from several parts of the same animal were recently discovered.

"We found the first traces of a big animal in 2003, but we were not sure it was a giant camel," he said.

A group of humans apparently killed the camel while it was drinking from a spring, said Tensorer, adding that 100 000-year-old human remains were discovered nearby at the once water-rich site in the desert steppe.

The human bones were transported to Switzerland, where they underwent anthropological analysis.

"The bone is that of a homo sapiens, or modern man, but the tooth is extremely archaic, similar to that of a Neanderthal. We don't know yet what it is exactly. Do we have a very old homo sapiens or a Neanderthal?" said Tensorer.

"We expect to find more bones that would help determine what kind of man it was."

Man has been present in what is now modern Syria for 1.5 million years. The area played a key role in the migration of the first human beings towards Asia and Europe, he said.

Kowm, the site where the remains were discovered along with flint and stone weapons, is a 20-km (14 mile) wide gap between two mountain ranges that had a number of springs.

The site, which was first surveyed in the 1960s and where evidence of a 1 million-year-old human settlement has been found, is considered a "reference for early prehistory in the Near East", Basel University said in a recent research paper.

It attracted migrating herds, such as antelope, and man. Archaeological layers covering a period of several hundreds of thousands of years were discovered, which is unusual for such an open site, he said.

"It was a savannah more or less," Tensorer said. "The camels then ate probably what they eat today."

[deuce]

Cool post, Ironhand! I can just see Kull riding one of those through the Lost Lands.

[mckennal]

Don't tell George Bush 'bout them giant dromedaries. He might try bombin' 'em.

[Ironhand]

Check this out for some interesting news on the evolution of whales.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15581204/

[PainBrush]

That is a pretty interesting story - I saw it yesterday on the A.O.L. news-posts when I logged on . Tends to prove what they've been saying for a couple decades about those ancient animals taking to the water- around the time when all the animals living on land all died off . Ice-age ? Ice-age thaw/flood ? Volcanoes ? Meteors ? The evolutionary stuff amazes me to no end , I'm pre-occupied with it lately . Still nothing whatsoever to show any cross-species evolving though . Here's another one the average person has no idea about - the most primitive snakes there are ( meaning ones that have changed the least in the longest amount of time - millions(?) of years ) - the Pythonidae , the giant most primitive snakes , - most of them still have vestigial pelvic/leg bones - which are today only little-spurs used to arouse each other during mating ( kinky !) Just like that big book said - the 'serpent' ( lizard ) lost his legs ! I've been trying to prove & disprove to myself stuff in that book for years - even the obviously 'metaphorical' stuff , - so far the score ; proven - about 10,000 things , dis-proven - still looking !

[PaulMc]

Check this out for some interesting news on the evolution of whales.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15581204/

It's scary how The Onion seems to predict things years in advance...

Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs
http://www.theonion....tent/node/28315

[Ironhand]

Check this out for some interesting news on the evolution of whales.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15581204/

It's scary how The Onion seems to predict things years in advance...

Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs
http://www.theonion....tent/node/28315

If you think that's bad, wait 'till Killer Whales get thumbs! First they'll go after the saltwater crocs, then we're next.

[PainBrush]

hey , fellow onion fans - that's the best stuff on the web ! ( after the Conan boards anyway) check out this 'health-food' from Fritos article from yesterday....ONION FRITOS ( like almost all Onion articles - may not be 'work-friendly' -read at your own risk )

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 09 November 2006 - 02:00 AM.