54 replies to this topic

[Kortoso]

Since Howard originally dreamed of the Hyborian Age so he could write and sell tales about his favorite historical periods, then it's really not necessary to accept this age as "real". But I can that authors can use it to let their medieval and ancient fantasies to continue in the same vein.

[Spartan198]

But: when you write about an (let's say) aquilonian mercenary, why not write about a french mercenary from 14th century? Or when writing a story with an afghuli background, why not write an adventure story that plays in 19th century in the Near East? An adventure with settlers and wild Picts? Write a frontier story.
That's what REH did, he just changed the names and exchanged guns with broadswords.

Historical fiction is extremely hard to write while keeping accurate to history. And when you deviate and throw something improbable or unlikely in for story or entertainment purposes, you get people nitpicking and complaining about it. Look at 300 as a prime example of this.

The most appealing aspect of the Hyborian Age as a setting is that very little is actually considered off limits. You can have medieval knights going head to head with classical hoplites (or any number of other combinations) without it being entirely implausible. I can use the Hyborian Age as a setting for various genres of stories, ranging from "historical" fiction to the totally unbelievable. The only things I personally consider off limits are things such as guns and cannons. The rest is fair game.

While admittedly there's a lot to learn about the Hyborian Age, it's a largely much easier setting to write in as it encourages creativity rather than restricts it with historical "guidelines".

Edited by Spartan198, 30 November 2009 - 11:28 AM.

[1980conanfan]

I have had an idea, for many years, about the adventures of a thief in the Hyborian world. He could go to many of the same places as Conan, Perhaps even be in the same town as Conan and not actually run into the cimmerian, but basically just go and have adventures of his own- using stealth, a quick wit, a nimble blade, and a suave style that Conan doesn't quite possess. As a child I even went so far as to come up with the thief's name and origin, and wrote a couple of stories about him. He refers to himself as a Rogue, not a thief.......and picks locks, romances ladies with flowers, charm, and a dashing smile........sometimes works on the side of good but the bottom line is to ALWAYS make a profit. So basically, the idea was to have "more Hyborian adventures" for me to read. I called his shortstories ROGUE FOR HIRE, and even went so far as to come up with a set of guidelines that my thief/swashbuckler/womanizing guy lived by:
RULES of ROGUE
1- don't get caught
2- capitolize on everything
3- always steal
4- words are sometimes the best weapon
5- never fully trust a mage
6- analyze the situation
7- the sneak attack is your best friend
8- disguise when necessary
9- romance the pretty ones first
..................so basically using these guidelines I just had my guy go about his adventures. Yes I know......this is kinda cheesy....but I came up with this stuff as a ten or twelve year old, and my love of sword-n-sorcery promted me to just start writing.

Edited by 1980conanfan, 08 September 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[Ironhand]

I have had an idea, for many years, about the adventures of a thief in the Hyborian world. He could go to many of the same places as Conan, Perhaps even be in the same town as Conan and not actually run into the cimmerian, but basically just go and have adventures of his own- using stealth, a quick wit, a nimble blade, and a suave style that Conan doesn't quite possess. As a child I even went so far as to come up with the thief's name and origin, and wrote a couple of stories about him. He refers to himself as a Rogue, not a thief.......and picks locks, romances ladies with flowers, charm, and a dashing smile........sometimes works on the side of good but the bottom line is to ALWAYS make a profit. So basically, the idea was to have "more Hyborian adventures" for me to read. I called his shortstories ROGUE FOR HIRE, and even went so far as to come up with a set of guidelines that my thief/swashbuckler/womanizing guy lived by:
RULES of ROGUE
1- don't get caught
2- capitolize on everything
3- always steal
4- words are sometimes the best weapon
5- never fully trust a mage
6- analyze the situation
7- the sneak attack is your best friend
8- disguise when necessary
9- romance the pretty ones first
..................so basically using these guidelines I just had my guy go about his adventures. Yes I know......this is kinda cheesy....but I came up with this stuff as a ten or twelve year old, and my love of sword-n-sorcery promted me to just start writing.

Look for a story/novel by Tanith Lee, titled Cyrion, or Syrion, I'm not sure of the spelling. The eponymous hero pretty much meets your description. Only differences are that he has some magical talents, and sometimes hires out as an "expiditer".

[LordYam]

This might not be the best topic, but I was wondering how a true pastiche would be done. To be honest, I am proposing a pretty radical idea. It shouldn't feature conan directly. It would be like Wolves along the border, in that he may be mentioned.


Having read Conan the avenger, I loved a few elements (the tyranical sorcerer yah chieng, the idea of the Scarlet circle, white hand and other sorcerous groups that deCamp made being potentially workable, the city on the edge of the world), but feel that if non conan protagonists were involved they would be a snugger fit.

So how would you do a pastiche?

[Lunatic]

I would just write about another cimmerian since I find them endearing.

[MiihkaliT]

What did Valeria do before "Red Nails" and, what became of her after she and Conan parted company?

I've always felt that Valeria was one of the most important and interesting characters of the Hyborian Age, if not the most interesting (save Conan). Though he wasn't the Cimmerian's love of the life --I wouldn't even describe their affair a romantic one-- she was perhaps the only person ever encountered in the stories who was equal to Conan, both in terms of fighting and willpower. She really seems to have been an colourful and expectional character, living a vivid life and having quite a lot of experiences. It's really sad that Howard never wrote more of her; I would love to hear more about her fortunes. She's definitely a character worth of her own series of novellas.

[LordYam]

i know one pastiche she is hired to rescue conan after numidedes has him thrown in jail....but from all accounts it also makes her weaker and is thus not terribly good.

[deuce]

I thought I'd bring this quote over from another thread...

 

It would be interesting if many authors who tried their hand on Conan (usually unsuccessfully) had actually attempted some serious pastiche with other characters of the Conan Saga. REH's two aforementioned fragments show that good results could come from well written stories without Conan being present in (or, in any case, dominating) the tale. I, for one, would love to read a tale that describes some of Shevatas' deeds.

 

--- Constantine

 

Actually, Fritz Leiber wrote an excellent tale set during the Hyborian "Volkerwanderung" period for the AMRA fanzine. In the same venue, Ray Capella published some of his "Arquel" stories, also quite readable.

 

Boardman's The Testament of Snefru is pretty good as well. A fairly accurate portrayal of Stygia in Conan's time, in my opinion.

 

Most pastiche authors (especially the TOR breed) never had a grasp of Conan and his immediate environs. I don't think the same guys writing about Shevatas or Valerius would've produced better results.

 

I prefer not to discuss the "Age of Conan" novels.  

[deuce]

Another cool quote from the "non-pastiche" thread...

 

Some stories about the master thief Shevatas the Zamorian would make good reading, and I would have liked to see a few adventures of that other professional pilferer, Taurus, who met his end in "Tower of the Elephant."  Other good characters were the urbane rogue and traitor Murilo, Belit (before she met Conan) and Valeria of the Red Brotherhood.  Tascela, the perverse sorceress of "Red Nails", must have had some bloody and terrible episodes in her early life, before she came to Xuchotl.  Yasunga, the warrior who followed Belit and then was freed from shipboard slavery as a rower by Conan years later in THE HOUR OF THE DRAGON, must have had a wild career.  He probably came originally from those "far southern isles" where Belit recruited her corsairs.  Kerim Shah, the Turanian agent in "People of the Black Circle" ... Thoth-Amon, for that matter ... Jungir Khan, satrap of Zamboula, and his mistress Nafertari ... and Count Trocero of Poitain must have had some interesting moments during the reign of Numedides ... once you start thinking about the possibilities you could list them for pages.

 

--- Keith Taylor

 

Indeed.  

 

What about Prospero? Might not he have been the "friend" of Conan who got the Cimmerian hauled in front of the magistrate? He holds the distinction of being one of Conan's closest buds. I'm sure he knew how to raise hell without Conan around. In fact, Conan says as much in TPotS. A swashbuckler and a rogue.

[Scott Oden]

I still have some notes laying around my hard drive for a Shevatas novel.  I'd love to write that one . . .

[Keith J Taylor]

Hey, Deuce. I got off the track a little with that comment about Francis Crawford, but your suggestion about Prospero could be the goods. Prospero MIGHT have been the young soldier who ran a guardsman through to protect his sweetheart, at the beginning of "Queen of the Black Coast". Origins never mentioned ... they could have been Poitainian. Conan was young, too, mid-twenties at most, in "QotBC". They might've met again later, after Prospero had knocked around a bit and then returned to Aquilonia. Yes, you're right. I'll bet Prospero did the Errol Flynn bit here and there ... the Don Juan bit also.

[deuce]

I had this idea (even though, as story characters, Mouser predates Cyrion) that Cyrion represents the ideal that Mouser was trying to become.

 

 

Any chance we're ever going to discuss Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age characters again?

 

The majority of the Tanith Lee/Cyrion posts have been moved to the "Obscure Sword and Sorcery Characters" thread:

 

http://www.conan.com...=obscure&page=7

 

Y'all feel more than free to discuss Ms. Lee and her many fine contributions to the Sword-and-Sorcery genre there.  

[Keith J Taylor]

Yes.  By all means let's get back to REH and the Hyborian Age!  What about the Black Corsairs and their far southern isles where Belit recruited them?  I always wondered about that, and about Yasunga, N'Yaga, N'Gora and the others.  I pictured a realm of truly ferocious warriors who'd make Zulus look like teddy bears.  Many characteristics of the south seas in that milieu -- pearls, copra, great long outrigger war canoes, trimarans, expert sailors, but a dash of Madagascar and a trace of Philippine Moros.  I reckon they must have engaged in frequent seaborne conflict among themselves.  Just where was Abombi and who was King Ajaga? (Mentioned in "The Scarlet Citadel".)

[deuce]

Yes.  By all means let's get back to REH and the Hyborian Age!  What about the Black Corsairs and their far southern isles where Belit recruited them?  I always wondered about that, and about Yasunga, N'Yaga, N'Gora and the others.  I pictured a realm of truly ferocious warriors who'd make Zulus look like teddy bears.  Many characteristics of the south seas in that milieu -- pearls, copra, great long outrigger war canoes, trimarans, expert sailors, but a dash of Madagascar and a trace of Philippine Moros.  I reckon they must have engaged in frequent seaborne conflict among themselves. 

 

Several years back, we were discussing the Corsairs on another thread. My ideas were quite similar to yours. Sea-borne Zulus with a touch of Malagasy for exotic color. I think I mentioned something about Iban "Sea" Dayaks as well. 

 

The utter ferocity of the Corsairs seems to be forgotten from time to time. Apparently, they were seen as being beyond the pale even by the Freebooters and Barachans.

 

I'm sure the internecine feuds in the Corsair Isles would make for bloody and exciting reading.