43 replies to this topic

[Firderis]

Good days dear readers,

first of all, pls excuse any wrong spellings and others thing in that mind, i'm not rly the best in translation between german and english sequences.

As a supporter for a AoC-(Age of Conan, the incoming mmorpg-title)fansite i try to introduce our visitors to the world of REH and his chacacters. My personal background is not rly helpful, in reason of reading the Marvel-comics instead of the REH-history. I were the first time surprised, when i must learnd that Red Sonja had nothing to do with Conan and even did not exists (i know now the story of Red Sonya).

So that brings me to my question. I read a website which declare Kalanthes was last seen as an old men. And at the same time i've seen at another one ( http://www.marvunapp...ndix/thotha.htm ) he has been killed by Thoth-Amon himself, in a kind of trap (Serpent-man). So what's now the "true" in REHs world? Did he died in the fight against the serpent-man or did he survived until his old days?

I'm pleased in any help, i'm getting so confused....


With regards, Firderis

[WALKAN]

The Trap did never reach him. The bowl which contained the serpentthing was opened by the wrong person. In the end the monster was killed by Conan. The story "The God in the Bowl" is just a few pages worth the reading!

[terryallenuk]

I think he was only mentioned in The God in the Bowl and didn't actually appear in any of Howard's stories, without checking . Not sure about pastiches but his appearances took place in the comics.

Terry

[Firderis]

Thx a lot for all your help. So all i've got to do is changing the name of the person who open the box *smiles silenced*

[Firderis]

Does anybody of you know a dictionary which shows the most characters of the REH-Conan-universum? I've got a link for the Marvel-Conan-universum, but its not rly helpful: http://www.marvunapp...ix/appconan.htm

I would be happy if the same thing would exists for the REH-Conanworld

[terryallenuk]

Does anybody of you know a dictionary which shows the most characters of the REH-Conan-universum? I've got a link for the Marvel-Conan-universum, but its not rly helpful: http://www.marvunapp...ix/appconan.htm

I would be happy if the same thing would exists for the REH-Conanworld

Can't think of another on-line I've come across . If you can , however , find a copy of the Conan the Swordsman book around , probably cheap on e-bay or through Abebooks , there's a glossary of characters , places etc. that appear in the Conan stories up to that date it was published . Not a lot of _detail_about each but it might be a start.

Terry

[Firderis]

Thx anyway Terry. So i will still wait for Conan - The Ultimate Guide and hope i can find one in switzerland *smiles*

[terryallenuk]

Thx anyway Terry. So i will still wait for Conan - The Ultimate Guide and hope i can find one in switzerland *smiles*

That should be excellent indeed . Amazon France and Germany have it listed whichever works out the cheapest for you.


Terry

[WALKAN]

Thx a lot for all your help. So all i've got to do is changing the name of the person who open the box *smiles silenced*

The name of the victim was Kallian Publico!

[Amra]

Kalanthes of Hanumar was a priest of Ibis in Howard's story "The God in the Bowl". Howard submitted the story to Weird Tales magazine after he submitted The Frost Giant's Daughter, but both tales were rejected. The God in the Bowl was published in Space Science Fiction magazine in September of 1952, many years after Howard's death.

[Thulses]

The general consensus seems to be that Kalanthes is a noble priest of Ibis fighting the wicked Thoth-Amon but I have a completely different view and was wondering if anyone else shared it.

First off let's start with what we know for sure from REH's The God in the Bowl
1 He's from Hanumar
2 He's a denizen of Numalia
3 High priest of Ibis
4 Wanted dead by Thoth-Amon

I think the cult of Ibis is centered in the fortress city of Hanumar that straddles the borders of Stygia and Kush. Hanumar is a wonder of military engineering (I think of the fortress of Buhen in Egypt). Nearly impregnable, Hanumar is protected by unassailable walls and moats and terrible magics. From here the cult of Ibis contends with acolytes of Set for control of Stygia's religous power, both claiming that their god is the king of the Stygian pantheon. The cult of Ibis is in no ways noble, being just as dark and terrible as the Black Ring.

Kalanthes holds a lot of political clout in Nemedia, often travelling there in secret to make deals behind closed doors with powerful men.

I imagine Kalanthes as an older man being a mix between Stygians and Kushites like most who live in Hanumar. In classic villian fashion I see Kalanthes as a pedophile who beds young boys studying to become priests and makes human sacrifices to Ibis on blood-stained alters.

I also like to think that Kalanthes was the man behind the curtain, instigating the events in REH's The Hour of the Dragon. Slipping knowledge of the Heart of Ahriman and planting seeds in the minds of certain Numedians, Kalanthes played entire nations like puppets on a string. Maybe he did this hoping that the rise of Acheron would distract the priesthood of Set long enough for his own cult to take over Stygia, or perhaps he'd have sought an alliance with Xaltotun to crush his enemies within the Black Circle. Then there's always the chance that his motives were even darker, sinister plots that would escape the minds of most men. Perhaps he also orchestrated the theft of Thoth-Amon's ring in an attempt to have T-A killed by his fellow priestcraft.

Edited by Thulses, 10 September 2010 - 09:00 PM.

[elegos7]

This is a great post about Kalanthes.
I never thought he could have been the mastermind behind the events in The Hour of the Dragon.
But why not?

[Axerules]

I merged two threads about Kalanthes.

[Taranaich]

The general consensus seems to be that Kalanthes is a noble priest of Ibis fighting the wicked Thoth-Amon but I have a completely different view and was wondering if anyone else shared it.

This is a really cool, interesting theory, Thulses! I shall address it thusly. (That's not a word, but it totally should.)

First off let's start with what we know for sure from REH's The God in the Bowl
1 He's from Hanumar
2 He's a denizen of Numalia
3 High priest of Ibis
4 Wanted dead by Thoth-Amon

I think the cult of Ibis is centered in the fortress city of Hanumar that straddles the borders of Stygia and Kush.

I'm really not sure about the placement of Hanumar on the Stygian/Kushite border. For one thing, why would Thoth-Amon have it sent all the way north to Nemedia if it was just going to go back down south again? No-one remarks upon the caravan taking such an unusual and roundabout route. The fact that there's a living being in the bowl would suggest that the faster route would be preferable. The Bowl was staying at Kallian Publico's temple overnight, when it would resume its journey to Hanumar - indicating that Kalanthes is still there. Thus, it makes sense that Numalia is somewhere on the route between Stygia and Hanumar.

Now, as to whether Hanumar is in Nemedia - that's something that only now occured to me as being uncertain. We know that Hanumar is not on the road from Numalia to Aquilonia:

The master of the caravan had been paid by these other men to deliver it directly to Kalanthes, but he?s a rascal by nature, and wished to proceed directly to Aquilonia, on the road to which Hanumar does not lie. So he asked if he might leave it in the Temple until Kalanthes could send for it.

Now, does that mean that Hanumar is in Aquilonia, but that it's somewhere out of the way from the usual roads; or does it mean that Hanumar lies elsewhere? For now, I'm content to think that Hanumar is somewhere in north/eastern Nemedia, or possibly Brythunia/Hyperborea, with Numalia being on the road to Stygia. That said, Kalanthes is pretty much in line with known Nemedian names.

The nature of Ibis is also very unclear. If he is a Stygian deity, then he's a minor one - at least in Stygia itself. There is no evidence of a "sorcerous civil war" in Stygia between the forces of Set and Ibis in other stories, even accounting for a cloak-and-dagger affair far from the public eye. In comparison, much is made of the wars between Mitra and Set. Set reigns utterly supreme in Stygia, and any contenders are in the distinct minority. I'm very unsure whether Ibis is a "good god" or simply an evil/neutral/amoral one that happens to be opposed to Set, myself.

I also like to think that Kalanthes was the man behind the curtain, instigating the events in REH's The Hour of the Dragon. Slipping knowledge of the Heart of Ahriman and planting seeds in the minds of certain Numedians, Kalanthes played entire nations like puppets on a string. Maybe he did this hoping that the rise of Acheron would distract the priesthood of Set long enough for his own cult to take over Stygia, or perhaps he'd have sought an alliance with Xaltotun to crush his enemies within the Black Circle. Then there's always the chance that his motives were even darker, sinister plots that would escape the minds of most men.

I have to say this one's quite a stretch for me. For one thing, Xaltotun's a Set worshipper: an Ibis worshipper raising the mightiest servant of Set in the last 3,000 years seems exceedingly unlikely. That said, the idea of Kalanthes being a puppetmaster appeals to me - I just don't think he had a hand in the case of THotD.

Perhaps he also orchestrated the theft of Thoth-Amon's ring in an attempt to have T-A killed by his fellow priestcraft.

This, I like very much.

[Ironhand]

The Bowl was being sent to Kalanthes allegedly as a gift because of the "great esteem" in which T-A held Kalanthes. This doesn't sound like there was open warfare between T-A and Kalanthes. If T-A actually thought [the presumably wise and intelligent] Kalanthes would fall for this scam, this implies that Kalanthes didn't even know that T-A hated him. Either that, or Kalanthes was a hopeless dimwit. Or didn't know much about Stygian history and culture. Remember, Kallian Publico's assistant suspected the true nature of the Bowl.

Edited by Ironhand, 11 September 2010 - 01:24 PM.

[Thulses]

Great point Ironhand, maybe Thoth and Kalanthes were on friendly terms and T-A viewed Kalanthes as a threat because he was gaining too much power and tried to do away with him before a conflict could occur. Perhaps I'm missing the point altogether but I like the dynamics of T-A and K's relationship.

[theagenes]

Well, we don't really know much about the cult of Ibis, but presumably Ibis is a stand-in for the Egyptian god Thoth (often depicted as a man with the head of an ibis) just as Set is a stand-in for the Egyptian god Seth/Set and Mitra is a stand-in for the Persian/Zoroasterian god Mithra. Thoth was a god of wisdom and knowledge and the inventor of writing. How far the connection can be extended is anyone's guess, as REH never wrote about Ibis again after God in the Bowl was rejected. The ibis is of course a bird that eats snakes.

[Ironhand]

Great point Ironhand, maybe Thoth and Kalanthes were on friendly terms and T-A viewed Kalanthes as a threat because he was gaining too much power and tried to do away with him before a conflict could occur.

This is not implausible.

[Ixion]

The God in the Bowl- ?Why should a man in Stygia send Kalanthes a gift? Ancient gods and queer mummies
have come up the caravan roads before, but who loves the priest of Ibis so well in Stygia,
where they still worship the arch-demon Set who coils among the tombs in the darkness?
The god Ibis has fought Set since the first dawn of the earth, and Kalanthes has fought
Set?s priests all his life. There is something dark and hidden here.?

Definately a war being waged between the two dieties and their followers, maybe even more epic than the battle Mitra and Set wage. Thoth-Amon's intent was definately malicious because he carved his mark into the bowl.

The God in the Bowl- ?I found a symbol on the bottom of the Bowl!? chattered Promero. ?Not an ancient
hieroglyphic, but a symbol recently carved! The mark of Thoth-amon, the Stygian sorcerer,
Kalanthes? deadly foe! He found it in some grisly cavern below the haunted pyramids! The
gods of old times did not die, as men died ? they fell into long sleeps and their
worshippers locked them in sarcophagi so that no alien hand might break their slumbers.
Thoth-amon sent death to Kalanthes

I like Thulses's vision of Hanumar but it doesn't seem to quite fit with the trade route. Kallian says that he'll send a runner to Kalanthes so he can claim his bowl so I imagine that Hanumar must be pretty close to Numalia, possibly a half days run or so.

[Ironhand]

The God in the Bowl- ?Why should a man in Stygia send Kalanthes a gift? Ancient gods and queer mummies
have come up the caravan roads before, but who loves the priest of Ibis so well in Stygia,
where they still worship the arch-demon Set who coils among the tombs in the darkness?
The god Ibis has fought Set since the first dawn of the earth, and Kalanthes has fought
Set?s priests all his life. There is something dark and hidden here.?

Definately a war being waged between the two dieties and their followers, maybe even more epic than the battle Mitra and Set wage. Thoth-Amon's intent was definately malicious because he carved his mark into the bowl.

The God in the Bowl- ?I found a symbol on the bottom of the Bowl!? chattered Promero. ?Not an ancient
hieroglyphic, but a symbol recently carved! The mark of Thoth-amon, the Stygian sorcerer,
Kalanthes? deadly foe! He found it in some grisly cavern below the haunted pyramids! The
gods of old times did not die, as men died ? they fell into long sleeps and their
worshippers locked them in sarcophagi so that no alien hand might break their slumbers.
Thoth-amon sent death to Kalanthes

I like Thulses's vision of Hanumar but it doesn't seem to quite fit with the trade route. Kallian says that he'll send a runner to Kalanthes so he can claim his bowl so I imagine that Hanumar must be pretty close to Numalia, possibly a half days run or so.

This actually points out a problem I have with the story: is Kalanthes supposed to be less astute than Promero? How could he have been fooled?