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Anyone Here Practice Any Sort Of Martial Art?


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#21 Kortoso

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:59 PM

On the other hand, I train for fun rather than self-defence anyway, so the main thing for me is doing training I enjoy. After all, learning how to swing a broadsword isn't going to help me much on the street, but it sure sounds like fun. :D

That's the bottom line now isn't it? :)

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 05:25 PM

Greetings!
slideyfoot,hello!Ground fighting is important,mostly on a one to one battle,if it is a multiple attack keep your feet and a back against the wall! ;) If your shoved(or fall) to the ground get on your side,prop up on your elbow and when the @$#!!* comes at you a good swift kick in the groin will help! :P
If your under him and he is the mounted postion,cover,get your feet under your hips and throw him to a side,then grab your broadsword and dispatch him! :lol:

Tu

#23 Kortoso

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 07:00 PM

Just found this recently:
http://historical-pa.../article-8.html
Looks like ground-fighting goes back a little bit, doesn't it?

#24 budgie

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:21 PM


On the other hand, I train for fun rather than self-defence anyway, so the main thing for me is doing training I enjoy. After all, learning how to swing a broadsword isn't going to help me much on the street, but it sure sounds like fun. :D

That's the bottom line now isn't it? :)


Im the opposite, Im a traditionalist when it comes to my art.. theres as much form used in the bows as there is in the kata or sparring.. its a form of mental as well as physical conditioning..

each to thier own though..

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#25 slideyfoot

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:00 AM

Just found this recently:
http://historical-pa.../article-8.html
Looks like ground-fighting goes back a little bit, doesn't it?


Absolutely - cheers for the link, plenty of interesting info in there. B)

I tend to copy and paste this post I made earlier whenever someone mentions the history of MA, pankration in particular:

Pankration is roughly 2700 years old, as it can be dated to at least 536 BC (when the oldest yet dated statue honouring an Olympic pankratiast was erected) or possibly 648 BC (if you take Sextus Julius Africanus' list of Olympic sports to be accurate, but as that was written after 217 AD, I'm suspicious), either of which would indicate it was probably in existence before those dates.

Wrestling has it beat by some considerable distance, with murals from Beni Hasan, Egypt (dating to at least 1950BC) demonstrating recognisable wrestling technique. Even older are the limestone plaques and bronze jars depicting wrestlers (and boxers, incidentally) from Nintu Temple VI in what used to be Sumeria (modern-day Iraq), dating from around 3000 BC.

Posted Image
Terracotta Plaque of Wrestlers and Boxers
Khafaji, Nintu Temple
Early Dynastic Period, 3000-2340 B.C.
Iraq Museum, Baghdad


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Copper Statuette of Wrestlers
Khafaji, Nintu Temple
Early Dynastic Period, ca. 2600 B.C.
Iraq Museum, Baghdad


slideyfoot,hello!Ground fighting is important,mostly on a one to one battle,if it is a multiple attack keep your feet and a back against the wall!


I've always assumed that if its more than one guy, you're pretty much screwed, but then if it was me, one guy would be more than enough! :blink:

You might find this interesting - unusual that someone advocates pulling guard as self-defence, but allegedly worked for that poster.

Im the opposite, Im a traditionalist when it comes to my art.. theres as much form used in the bows as there is in the kata or sparring.. its a form of mental as well as physical conditioning..

each to thier own though..


I agree; as mentioned in the last couple of posts by Kortoso and I, its the enjoyment that really counts, and we all enjoy ourselves in different ways. Though thats certainly a statement that needs to be made with care... ;)

Of course, we could have a long discussion about what consitutes 'tradition' in MA, but I'll leave that for another time. :D

#26 grim cimmerian

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 12:01 AM

well lets see...
Brawling punk: 10+ years (I was a bellicose youth)
Tae Kwon Do (2nd degree black belt): 15 years 7 as an instructor
Koshiki kumite fighter: 2 years
mixed martial arts full contact fighter: 2 years
edged weapon ballistic training (thats knife throwing folks):9 years
Akido: 4 years
I have dabbled in most of the other forms of combat informally and have picked up techniques from various styles.

I started martial arts in junior high school and have been doing them ever since although I no longer compete or teach.
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#27 slideyfoot

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:00 AM

Koshiki kumite fighter: 2 years


Was the style actually called koshiki kumite, or was this a karate style that you happened to compete in (IIRC, kumite in what karate guys call competition, despite the unfortunate Frank Dux associations the term has picked up since ;) )

mixed martial arts full contact fighter: 2 years


Coolies - which competitions you been in? You up on Sherdog? Or was this a while back, so unlikely to be listed?

I'm assuming that most sanctioned MMA competitions started cropping up around the time it became popular in Japan with Pancrase (though there were a few 'stiff works', as I believe they're known) and the like, followed by UFC, Extreme Fighting, King of the Cage, Gladiator Challenge etc (among others, though I'm mainly basing my knowledge of that from old newspaper reports and Clyde Gentry's excellent book, No Holds Barred) in the US along with Pride back in Japan, although I'm aware of all those old school comps in Brazil stretching back over the 20th century, and presumably there were plenty of unsanctioned events (like the ones in Russia etc).

#28 grim cimmerian

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 05:21 PM

It isn't a style, Koshiki kumite is a series of invitational full contact tournments that my Tae Kwon Do full contact fighters were invited to. they sent invites to several full contact competitors and schools. I took second place in the Black belt 190 lbs. division one year. :) I think it was 94; might have been 95 or 96 I will have to look at the trophy at home.

What is now called mixed martial arts used to be called free style full contact which I competed in for two years. I had my nose broke twice, my twin brother had his ribs broken. this was long before UFC etc. It is very different than MMA today as there was little judo or jujitsu influence and fighters mainly kept their feet except for throws, locks, and sweeps. Bouts were determined by score or knockout, no submissions. No Cages or octagons either, just a mat and two judges. More traditional style of combat with little grappling and wrestling (you needed to score on clean techniques) There isn't any ground'n'pound either. if knocked down the other fighter is to remain at distance until the judge can determine if a knockout has been made then the fight resumes.

Edited by grim cimmerian, 11 September 2006 - 05:26 PM.

"WOE UNTO MY FOEMEN, PITY THEIR WIDOWS AND KIN."
All flatlanders are soft and frail, I enjoy those qualities in their women.
"By CROM if you so much as touch your hilt I'll split you from crown to crotch and see if your guts are as yellow as I think they are!"

#29 slideyfoot

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:13 PM

What is now called mixed martial arts used to be called free style full contact which I competed in for two years. I had my nose broke twice, my twin brother had his ribs broken. this was long before UFC etc. It is very different than MMA today as there was little judo or jujitsu influence and fighters mainly kept their feet except for throws, locks, and sweeps. Bouts were determined by score or knockout, no submissions. No Cages or octagons either, just a mat and two judges. More traditional style of combat with little grappling and wrestling (you needed to score on clean techniques) There isn't any ground'n'pound either. if knocked down the other fighter is to remain at distance until the judge can determine is a knockout has been made then the fight resumes.


Interesting - doesn't sound much like mixed martial arts, though, if there are limits on techniques and target areas, and particularly if they stop the fight after a knockdown. What you're describing sounds to me more like full contact karate, or what eventually became kickboxing through Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace and Benny 'the Jet' Urquidez, or possibly san shou (considering the throws).

Unless I'm misreading - when you say 'no submissions' etc, I assume you mean there were numerous restrictions on technique and target area? Also, the idea of 'scoring' sounds very different indeed to MMA (certainly not something you would have seen in the earliest examples of what could be called MMA, which are probably the Gracie challenge matches which took place from the 1920s onwards, or indeed the early UFCs) - again, more like full contact karate or san shou. Did you actually stop when a point was scored, or is it more like Olympic boxing, with points being accrued for each strike rather than stopping the match? I'm seeing a lot of Dutch pages pop up when googling 'koshiki kumite', which I assume means it might have had some interest from the muay thai side of things, or heavy contact kickboxing?

Would I be right in thinking this is the same thing, or does it just happen to also be called koshiki?:

In 1979, Hanshi Hisataka officially launched the SUPERSAFE ? equipment and the Koshiki tournament system; and in the following year organized and hosted the first World Koshiki Karatedo Championships, a competitive system based on the use of SUPERSAFE ? equipment. World Koshiki Karatedo Championships have been conducted in Tokyo (1980, 1981, and 1982), Maracaibo, Venezuela (1983), Brishane, Australia (1985), California, U.S.A. (1987), Montreal, Canada (1989) and Amsterdam, the Netherlands (1992). Today Koshiki Karate is parctised in most major countries around the world, and is being considered to be admitted to the Olympic Games.


Though they don't mention kumite in there, but as thats just a karate term for sparring, maybe its the same thing? If so, then 1979 would make it vaguely contemparaneous with the advent of full contact karate (I wonder if there was any influence there? Probably not, as it sounds like this was a Japanese based idea - then again, perhaps that had some impact on the later Pancrase in Japan, which started up around the same time as the UFC in 1993), though rather younger than MMA in the form it first took under the Gracies, who kicked off their 'no rules' challenge matches in the 1920s.

I love looking into MA history, hence all the babbling, particularly when its MA history I can look up in newspapers etc (so, from the past 100 years or so). :D

#30 Guest_Tu for Kull_*

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:41 PM

Greetings!
Ah,the good old days of the UFC!No weight classes,gloves,etc,etc,... The only two target's off-limits were the eyes and the groin,which when you think about self-defense is EXACTLY where you should strike!

Tu

#31 PainBrush

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:42 PM

I saw a fight with Benny the Jet ( i'm pretty sure it was him - but it's a lot of years & punches ago ) - here in Detroit some years ago - as an opener for a toughman contest they had a few short kickboxing pros doing demo bouts .( oops , I mean a few short bouts with kickboxers - 'not' short kickboxers ! ) I've never seen anything like how he won his match -knockout . He was getting his a55 handed to him by a heavier brawler kickboxer with an excellent guard - He simply couldn't get inside the guys guard - but you could see him biding his time for the exact right second - which looked like it wasn't going to happen . Then -KAPOW ! he did this move that had everyone in the arena up & shouting & tearing the seats apart because it was so amazing . Facing the other guy straight-on he kicked his leg kind of back up 'behind' himself as he turned to duck a punch - the turn allowed him to bring the flat bottom of his foot up around the BACK of his opponents noggin - making a full contact smack against the back of his head that you could audibly hear & boom-boom out go the lights !! The only time I've ever seen anything similar was - in clips of him doing the same thing before !!

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 11 September 2006 - 06:58 PM.

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#32 slideyfoot

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:49 PM

Greetings!
Ah,the good old days of the UFC!No weight classes,gloves,etc,etc,... The only two target's off-limits were the eyes and the groin,which when you think about self-defense is EXACTLY where you should strike!

Tu


Heh - not quite off-limits, you'd merely get a fine (IIRC; would have to check Gentry to be sure), groin shots meandering between legal and illegal in the early UFCS. For example, have you seen the fight where Joe Son got repeatedly hammered in the crotch by Keith Hackney? Or Gerard Gordeau's eye gouge on Royce Gracie at the end of UFC 1, or indeed Jon Hess against Andy Anderson (won the fight mainly by scratching his eyes, according to Anderson)?

I saw a fight with Benny the Jet here in Detroit some years ago


Really? I'm jealous - from what I've seen, the man was incredible in the ring. Was this quite a while ago, as I think he's in his 50s now and doesn't compete? Saw a great extra on my DVD for Wheels on Meals (1984), which was an extended interview with Urquidez. Apparently, during filming in Barcelona, he and Keith Vitalli wandered round Spanish dojos asking to fight. Vitalli was respectful, perhaps due to the karate thing, but Urquidez was happily knocking people out left right and center - they stopped letting him spar, apparently. ;)

Edited by slideyfoot, 11 September 2006 - 06:54 PM.


#33 grim cimmerian

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:00 PM

Interesting - doesn't sound much like mixed martial arts, though, if there are limits on techniques and target areas, and particularly if they stop the fight after a knockdown. What you're describing sounds to me more like full contact karate, or what eventually became kickboxing through Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace and Benny 'the Jet' Urquidez, or possibly san shou (considering the throws).

Unless I'm misreading - when you say 'no submissions' etc, I assume you mean there were numerous restrictions on technique and target area? Also, the idea of 'scoring' sounds very different indeed to MMA (certainly not something you would have seen in the earliest examples of what could be called MMA, which are probably the Gracie challenge matches which took place from the 1920s onwards, or indeed the early UFCs) - again, more like full contact karate or san shou. Did you actually stop when a point was scored, or is it more like Olympic boxing, with points being accrued for each strike rather than stopping the match? I'm seeing a lot of Dutch pages pop up when googling 'koshiki kumite', which I assume means it might have had some interest from the muay thai side of things, or heavy contact kickboxing?

Would I be right in thinking this is the same thing, or does it just happen to also be called koshiki?:

In 1979, Hanshi Hisataka officially launched the SUPERSAFE ? equipment and the Koshiki tournament system; and in the following year organized and hosted the first World Koshiki Karatedo Championships, a competitive system based on the use of SUPERSAFE ? equipment. World Koshiki Karatedo Championships have been conducted in Tokyo (1980, 1981, and 1982), Maracaibo, Venezuela (1983), Brishane, Australia (1985), California, U.S.A. (1987), Montreal, Canada (1989) and Amsterdam, the Netherlands (1992). Today Koshiki Karate is parctised in most major countries around the world, and is being considered to be admitted to the Olympic Games.


Though they don't mention kumite in there, but as thats just a karate term for sparring, maybe its the same thing? If so, then 1979 would make it vaguely contemparaneous with the advent of full contact karate (I wonder if there was any influence there? Probably not, as it sounds like this was a Japanese based idea - then again, perhaps that had some impact on the later Pancrase in Japan, which started up around the same time as the UFC in 1993), though rather younger than MMA in the form it first took under the Gracies, who kicked off their 'no rules' challenge matches in the 1920s.

I love looking into MA history, hence all the babbling, particularly when its MA history I can look up in newspapers etc (so, from the past 100 years or so). :D

Yup that's it. Koshiki has head gear, chest protection, shin, arm, and hand and top of foot pads. It is limited full contact (stops after a scored point or combination, often called step sparring) think Best of the Best movie type match with pads.

free style full contact is very different from the koshiki (completely different tournament system and sponsors.)
it has no pads, just a mouth guard, (I believe a cup was optional) there are some restrictions as far as target areas that I remember, no throat, eye or groin strikes. Techniques were not restricted however with few exceptions, you could grapple or bar as you pleased (no choking was allowed, no hooking of the mouth or eye area was allowed) it was just pointless as you can't acrue points in that fashion. Grappling was mainly used to throw or when blocking became intangled, fighters usually came apart however. Joint attacks are possible I remember a guy from Nebraska getting his knee blown out from repeated leg kicks from the japanese team guys.
You scored points continuously during the fight by landing clean blows(not blocked or partially blocked techniques) which were determined by two judges. The action was only stopped upon knock down or knockout (from a technique) they didn't stop it after a sweep or throw and you could strike your opponent on the ground, but they would stop it after one head strike if the opponent is on the ground (no ground'n'pound possible) Basically if you landed a technique that knocks an opponent on his ass the judges rushed in to check his responsiveness and either declared the match a knockout or resumed the fight. the fights had three timed rounds. you either won by points accumulated or knockout.
You couldn't do an arm bar or joint attack to win as there were no submissions (you can't tap out), but joint locks are used to restrain your opponent while you bash him etc.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the phrase mixed martial arts as it seems that the term has taken on a specific meaning relating to UFC when to old school martial artists it just means the competition allows any style of training or a fighter has a 'mixed bag' style. Many Muay Thai style fighters competed in this system although it wasn't kickboxing only; it was all martial arts. (mixed martial arts or free style competion.)
"WOE UNTO MY FOEMEN, PITY THEIR WIDOWS AND KIN."
All flatlanders are soft and frail, I enjoy those qualities in their women.
"By CROM if you so much as touch your hilt I'll split you from crown to crotch and see if your guts are as yellow as I think they are!"

#34 PainBrush

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:01 PM

The fight i'm talking about was at least 10 years - maybe 12 years ago ? & I believe all the kickboxers were retired & former champs - that's why they were doing demo bouts at an unsanctioned gig like the Toughman Contest , probably just a quick money gig.

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 11 September 2006 - 07:02 PM.

" You have a good point there,...put your helmet on & no-one will notice it ."
" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "
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#35 Guest_Tu for Kull_*

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:06 PM

Heh - not quite off-limits, you'd merely get a fine (IIRC; would have to check Gentry to be sure), groin shots meandering between legal and illegal in the early UFCS. For example, have you seen the fight where Joe Son got repeatedly hammered in the crotch by Keith Hackney? Or Gerard Gordeau's eye gouge on Royce Gracie at the end of UFC 1, or indeed Jon Hess against Andy Anderson (won the fight mainly by scratching his eyes, according to Anderson)?


Greetings!
I have the first three UFC on video,Joe got hammered on his thigh mostly,...
Sorry Valusians,I was talking self-defense,you know,no rules,no zebra's :P
The two most vunerable areas on the body are the eyes and groin,unless you have a gun or Claymore! :lol: Or break a leg,or arm or collar bone,etc,....

Tu

#36 grim cimmerian

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:11 PM

by the way full contact Tae Kwon Do is an olympic sport and it is interesting to read in the piece you found that they are considering koshiki for the olympics when it is basically the same thing.
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All flatlanders are soft and frail, I enjoy those qualities in their women.
"By CROM if you so much as touch your hilt I'll split you from crown to crotch and see if your guts are as yellow as I think they are!"

#37 slideyfoot

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:22 PM

[quote name='grim cimmerian' post='52990' date='Sep 11 2006, 07:00 PM']free style full contact is very different from the koshiki (completely different tournament system and sponsors.)[/quote]

Ah, right - wasn't sure if you were talking about the same thing in those posts. Do you remember the name of the full contact thing?

[quote]Techniques were not restricted however with few exceptions, you could grapple or bar as you pleased (no choking was allowed, no hooking of the mouth or eye area was allowed) it was just pointless as you can't acrue points in that fashion. Grappling was mainly used to throw or when blocking became intangled, fighters usually came apart however.[/quote]

Interesting - do you remember what the reasoning was for not scoring for grappling? To make the fight more exciting to the layman, or did it evolve from a stand-up format and therefore didn't take too much note of the grappling side of things?

[quote]You couldn't do an arm bar or joint attack to win as there were no submissions (you can't tap out), but joint locks are used to restrain your opponent while you bash him etc.[/quote]

Heh - not being able to tap out would change things. Though submissions could be quite handy for helping with the knockout; would something like what Goodridge did to Herrera in UFC 8 be permitted? That was unpleasant; had Herrera completely tied up then proceeded to elbow the crap out of his head. :blink:

[quote name='PAINBRUSH']The fight i'm talking about was at least 10 years - maybe 12 years ago ? & I believe all the kickboxers were retired & former champs - that's why they were doing demo bouts at an unsanctioned gig like the Toughman Contest , probably just a quick money gig.[/quote]

Well, no doubt Urquidez is still more than capable of handling himself - still looked in good shape in the extra I mentioned.

[quote name='Tu fo Kull']Greetings!
I have the first three UFC on video,Joe got hammered on his thigh mostly,...
Sorry Valusians,I was talking self-defense,you know,no rules,no zebra's tongue.gif
The two most vunerable areas on the body are the eyes and groin,unless you have a gun or Claymore! laugh.gif Or break a leg,or arm or collar bone,etc,....[/quote]

Fair enough - haven't watched it for a while (I've been working my way though the FightDVD releases: great stuff if you've got a DVD player that can handle Region 2). Though the rules didn't disallow groin strikes in certain UFCs - I guess no-one took advantage. Which is strange, as in the early ones in particular, there were a few guys I'm sure wouldn't be too concerned with 'playing fair'. ;)

[quote name='grim cimmerian']by the way full contact Tae Kwon Do is an olympic sport and it is interesting to read in the piece you found that they are considering koshiki for the olympics when it is basically the same thing.[/quote]

Not sure how official that piece is: its looks pretty amateur, so may just be a throwaway comment by some Koshiki fan. I have heard that san shou is being considered, which would be cool to see at the Olympics. Pankration would be even better. :D

#38 jak

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:17 PM

8 years karate centuries ago, traditional and kickboxing. Not great, not bad, either. Now I just punch and kick in the garage. Heavy, double-end, speed bags. Wrestle with my son, who's getting STRONGER as a 14 year old, and not so easy to throw around anymore.

I watch the UFC for tactics now and then, but when they start wailing away on a guy who's already streaming blood (and I mean streaming. they patched him up between rounds but it opened right back up. he won, though.) or another guy's head turns an odd angle before he passes out in choke hold, it gets a little hard to watch. :blink:

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#39 grim cimmerian

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:18 PM


free style full contact is very different from the koshiki (completely different tournament system and sponsors.)

Ah, right - wasn't sure if you were talking about the same thing in those posts. Do you remember the name of the full contact thing?

Techniques were not restricted however with few exceptions, you could grapple or bar as you pleased (no choking was allowed, no hooking of the mouth or eye area was allowed) it was just pointless as you can't acrue points in that fashion. Grappling was mainly used to throw or when blocking became intangled, fighters usually came apart however.

Interesting - do you remember what the reasoning was for not scoring for grappling? To make the fight more exciting to the layman, or did it evolve from a stand-up format and therefore didn't take too much note of the grappling side of things?

You couldn't do an arm bar or joint attack to win as there were no submissions (you can't tap out), but joint locks are used to restrain your opponent while you bash him etc.

Heh - not being able to tap out would change things. Though submissions could be quite handy for helping with the knockout; would something like what Goodridge did to Herrera in UFC 8 be permitted? That was unpleasant; had Herrera completely tied up then proceeded to elbow the crap out of his head. :blink:


try F.S.F.C. I am pretty sure that was the name of it, I probably have an old registration form somewheres. They were held all over the U.S. I competed in reno NV., Las Vegas NV., Salt Lake City Ut., Denver CO., Anaheim CA., L.A. CA., etc. There were many back east that I couldn't attend due to travel expense. (I know World Tae Kwon Do Federation was a sponsor, that's how I got started in it)

Seems to me that the major competitors were from Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kick boxing etc. Mostly stand up forms of fighting. there was an occasional boxer/wrestler who competed but they usually got trashed. emphasis was definitely on striking and not grappling which in my opinion makes for more exciting fights for the crowd.

I didn't see that fight but from the description as long as he was on his feet yes you could do something like that. On the ground it would be stopped after the first elbow. Mostly what happened was somebody would lock up a wrist or arm then take the undefended head shot. (I myself got a knock out against a dude from canada in the second round when I blocked his punch, caught it, used a wrist lock to force him to bend over then snapkicked him to the face.)
I also had a knockout against a kickboxer from California. He leg kicked then I blocked his first punch, ate his second on the upper cheek then countered with two punches then a spinning backfist combo (which I think knocked him out), I then partially landed a jump spinning back kick to the side of his jaw while he was falling, then immediately as I landed that I did a spinning back sweep to take out his legs but just hit his heaped up body instead, he was already down.
I never was knocked out but I lost a fair share due to points and won a fair share too. B)
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#40 slideyfoot

slideyfoot

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:36 PM

try F.S.F.C. I am pretty sure that was the name of it, I probably have an old registration form somewheres. They were held all over the U.S. I competed in reno NV., Las Vegas NV., Salt Lake City Ut., Denver CO., Anaheim CA., L.A. CA., etc. There were many back east that I couldn't attend due to travel expense. (I know World Tae Kwon Do Federation was a sponsor, that's how I got started in it)


Not seeing it so far, which is a shame as it sounds interesting. Then again, fairly common search terms - might turn something up later.

Seems to me that the major competitors were from Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kick boxing etc. Mostly stand up forms of fighting. there was an occasional boxer/wrestler who competed but they usually got trashed. emphasis was definitely on striking and not grappling which in my opinion makes for more exciting fights for the crowd.


I'd say its definitely easier to appreciate, hence why I often see a crowd booing at certain MMA events because they don't know whats going on if the fighters start to grapple. Of course, it can be boring sometimes, like that woefully mislabelled superfight between Shamrock and Gracie, but then you have exciting people like Genki Sudo. Everyone can understand a good kick to the chin knocking a guy out, but might have more problems getting worked up about a really great guard pass. :P

Not surprised wrestlers didn't do well if there was no ground and pound: that pretty much takes away their main weapon. In fact, not sure why they bothered entering if the focus was on stand-up and they knew they couldn't do anything on the ground? Although I guess some guys would be big enough that one punch might be all they need on the ground - certainly wouldn't want to take any hits from a Coleman or a Kerr.


You were never tempted to try something like UFC etc, then? Though I guess that would make sense if you're mainly a stand-up guy - did your instructor/club have anything to say when UFC 1 hit in 1993, or everyone was quite happy with the FSFC thing they were already doing?

I watch the UFC for tactics now and then, but when they start wailing away on a guy who's already streaming blood (and I mean streaming. they patched him up between rounds but it opened right back up. he won, though.) or another guy's head turns an odd angle before he passes out in choke hold, it gets a little hard to watch. blink.gif


Yeah, not pleasant when you have someone along Tank Abbott lines, who (as he frequently liked to tell people) was there simply to hurt people as much as possible. I prefer a guy like Randy Couture, who appears to be there for the test of skill. Though its a lot less bloody than it used to be, not to mention far more skilful (as seen by the very public passing of the old guard, when Royce Gracie got schooled by Matt Hughes).

Edited by slideyfoot, 11 September 2006 - 08:39 PM.