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Pre-Columbian/Native American History And Archaeology


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#81 theagenes

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 09:51 AM

That's a delicious looking truffle fine looking little head ya got there!


It does kind of look like a chocolate Easter bunny head, doesn't it? :D
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#82 Kortoso

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:09 PM

Here's a fun one:
http://io9.com/58594...-century-alaska
What was a bronze buckle from East Asia doing in 11th century Alaska?

#83 Landsknecht

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

Here's a fun one:
http://io9.com/58594...-century-alaska
What was a bronze buckle from East Asia doing in 11th century Alaska?


So that's where I dropped that! :D

While not impossible, the author uses "zero percent chance" a little loosely. The nearby Tlingits (and Haida) has an ancient (pre-columbian) copper working culture which is certainly higher than "zero archeological evidence". From melting copper to making a sort of bronze is just not an unimaginable jump.

Posted Image

It is still possible to walk across the Bering Strait so Asian trade was always possible:

http://www.tothepeop...ing-across.html
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#84 Kortoso

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:30 PM

Yes, it's true many northern tribes figured out how to hammer copper ore into tools. That's a good looking piece, BTW. One imagines the Picts producing their copper weapons in such a way.

On the other hand, there has probably been a lot more coastal trade and immigration over the years than is commonly supposed.

#85 Landsknecht

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:16 PM

Yes, it's true many northern tribes figured out how to hammer copper ore into tools. That's a good looking piece, BTW. One imagines the Picts producing their copper weapons in such a way. On the other hand, there has probably been a lot more coastal trade and immigration over the years than is commonly supposed.


I agree that there was a lot more back and forth between Asia and America than we thought. The Blue Fish Caves just north of us have hunting artifacts dating to about 40,000 years but no evidence has been found for settlements. They might have traveled this far just to hunt(?)

If you like this Tlingit dagger you would love our state museum or the Sheldon Jackson collection in Sitka. You would probably really like to meet Tommy Joseph in Sitka too: http://tommy-joseph.blogspot.com/ He is pretty much the expert on at least Tlingit armour and weapons if not all Alaskan and near Asian armour and weapons. He's on Facebook and doesn't have nearly enough friends. Just sayin.

I suspect that Picts and early Celts had similar copper working skills. We can occasionally find alluvial copper nuggets as large at quarters which they probably cast into larger pieces to make daggers and potlach shields.

Posted ImagePosted Image

As I understand it, these huge, heavy copper tablets were some where between Irish hearthstones and bearer bonds for Tlingit clans since they held greatly inflated value. Oddly they do not seem to have used the local gold nuggets the same way or they were traded away over the centuries(?)

Posted Image

Our local Tlingit and Haida were not sissy pacifists like the Aztecs. I would have really enjoyed REH "bringing these warriors to life" in one of his stories. We keep trying to help our one long time SCA Tlingit fighter into going to more traditional armour but he does not want to give up his open face helm. :mellow:
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#86 deuce

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:41 AM

So I'm still excavating a Swift Creek/Weeden Island village and mound site near Panama City. Yesterday this figurine/adorno head popped up in a feature near a shell midden. It's very unusual to find one of these, especially outside of a funerary context. I thought I'd share it with you guys.
Jeff


Posted Image


I missed this originally. Very cool, Theagenes. B)

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#87 deuce

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:43 AM

A very interesting find in Alaska:


http://www.colorado....f531dc88a5.html

Who knows? Perhaps it belonged to a lost and forlorn Hun who sailed with the Inuit. Almost a Howardian tale in that.

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#88 deuce

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:54 PM

In 2007, MIT tried to decode Quipu/Khipu, the only totally three-dimensional writing system known to history:

http://courses.csail....edu/iap/khipu/

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#89 Ironhand

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:30 AM

Topologically, it appears to be only 2D.

I know someone who has done research in rosaries, and I'm going to ask her about QK.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

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#90 deuce

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:36 AM

The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

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#91 Kortoso

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:56 AM

The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

Interesting. No mention of whether they were in contact with the Incan civilization.

#92 deuce

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:21 AM


The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

Interesting. No mention of whether they were in contact with the Incan civilization.


Hey Kortoso! I assume you mean one of the earlier cultures making up the Andean Civilization continuum. The graves being excavated are about a 1000yrs old.

I have to chuckle when I hear people talk about the "ancient Aztecs" or the "ancient Incas". It's quite analogous to saying the "ancient Swiss" or the "ancient Portuguese".

I'm sure there were various contacts with Mexico, the Yucatan, the Amazonian civilization AND the cultures of the Andes. There is plentiful evidence for cultural exchange/commerce between all those regions and Panama was quite likely a crossroads.

For some reason (maybe the menhirs), I get a sort of impression of the Nata being "Native Mesoamerican Celts". Anyway, I look forward to more discoveries. :)

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#93 Kortoso

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:49 PM

Apologies for the crude shorthand. If I had a trowel I would give it up. ;) I still use the term "Romans" when I mean SPQR.

I had searched for connections between the ancient mesoamerican civilizations and those of South America. Tell me what you know of this connection. :)

#94 Almuric

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

C'mon. Everyone knows what the connection between Mesoamerican civilizations was:

ALIENS!
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"

Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."


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#95 deuce

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:11 AM

Traditional Mayan bee-keeping, ancient long before Columbus, is on the way out:

http://news.national..._maya_bees.html

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#96 deuce

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:18 AM

The Red Paint/Maritime culture. Very Cool.

http://www.archaeolo...cts/letter.html

http://en.wikipedia....ed_Paint_People

Bold sea-farers who built complex stone tombs. Five thousand years ago. B)

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#97 deuce

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:16 AM

Apologies for the crude shorthand. If I had a trowel I would give it up. ;) I still use the term "Romans" when I mean SPQR.

I had searched for connections between the ancient mesoamerican civilizations and those of South America. Tell me what you know of this connection. :)


Sorry for replying so late, Kortoso. I think that was when I was having to use the library's computers and I only did so 1 or 2 days a week. I also apologise for my slightly pedantic tone.

Below is an excerpt from Rebecca Storey's Pre-Columbian Economy :

...OK, I guess not. Apparently, the "image extension" I used to capture it isn't allowed. So, here's a link:

http://lasa.internat...oreyRebecca.pdf

Scroll down to about p.22 and you should find all kinds of interesting stuff. Believe me, there was extensive trade (mostly in "prestige" items) over 100s, if not 1000s of miles.

Here's an excerpt from an article about the Hudson Museum's "Emerald Man":

What is the source of the raw material?

Emeralds come from only a few localities around the world. Most emeralds occur in metamorphic rocks as a by-product of that environment but Colombian deposits are unique because they are based on hydrothermal processes. Physical characteristics of emeralds, including color, transparency, inclusions, trace elements, specific gravity, refractive index, appearance through the Chelsea filter and florescence under UV light vary depending on locality. The rarity of emerald sources is apparent on a map of origins of emeralds around the world.
During the Conquest, Pizarro and Cortes sent emeralds from Peru and Mexico, respectively, to the Spanish court. Cortes obtained his emeralds from the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan. The only source of the stone in the Western Hemisphere known at the time of the Conquest was Colombia. Emeralds reached as far south as Bolivia and as far north as Mexico by trade. It is known that the Colombian sources were being mined by the Chibcha earlier than AD 1000, but how much earlier is unknown.

Here's a link to the entire article:

http://www.umaine.ed...EmeraldMan.html

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#98 deuce

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 04:49 AM

Amazing finds in Windover, Florida:

http://www.nbbd.com/...story/windover/

A pity there's no money to adequately study what's been found already. :(

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#99 deuce

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:00 AM

The "Isthmian/epi-Olmec" script is still undeciphered:

http://news.byu.edu/...n-Isthmian.aspx

That mask is spooky lookin'.

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#100 Ironhand

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 06:02 AM

Deuce, thanks for some excellantly interesting finds. :)
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject