134 replies to this topic

[Kortoso]

Here's a fun one:
http://io9.com/58594...-century-alaska
What was a bronze buckle from East Asia doing in 11th century Alaska?

[Landsknecht]

Here's a fun one:
http://io9.com/58594...-century-alaska
What was a bronze buckle from East Asia doing in 11th century Alaska?

So that's where I dropped that!

While not impossible, the author uses "zero percent chance" a little loosely. The nearby Tlingits (and Haida) has an ancient (pre-columbian) copper working culture which is certainly higher than "zero archeological evidence". From melting copper to making a sort of bronze is just not an unimaginable jump.



It is still possible to walk across the Bering Strait so Asian trade was always possible:

http://www.tothepeople.com/2006/04/pair-arrested-after-walking-across.html

[Kortoso]

Yes, it's true many northern tribes figured out how to hammer copper ore into tools. That's a good looking piece, BTW. One imagines the Picts producing their copper weapons in such a way.

On the other hand, there has probably been a lot more coastal trade and immigration over the years than is commonly supposed.

[Landsknecht]

Yes, it's true many northern tribes figured out how to hammer copper ore into tools. That's a good looking piece, BTW. One imagines the Picts producing their copper weapons in such a way. On the other hand, there has probably been a lot more coastal trade and immigration over the years than is commonly supposed.

I agree that there was a lot more back and forth between Asia and America than we thought. The Blue Fish Caves just north of us have hunting artifacts dating to about 40,000 years but no evidence has been found for settlements. They might have traveled this far just to hunt(?)

If you like this Tlingit dagger you would love our state museum or the Sheldon Jackson collection in Sitka. You would probably really like to meet Tommy Joseph in Sitka too: http://tommy-joseph.blogspot.com/ He is pretty much the expert on at least Tlingit armour and weapons if not all Alaskan and near Asian armour and weapons. He's on Facebook and doesn't have nearly enough friends. Just sayin.

I suspect that Picts and early Celts had similar copper working skills. We can occasionally find alluvial copper nuggets as large at quarters which they probably cast into larger pieces to make daggers and potlach shields.



As I understand it, these huge, heavy copper tablets were some where between Irish hearthstones and bearer bonds for Tlingit clans since they held greatly inflated value. Oddly they do not seem to have used the local gold nuggets the same way or they were traded away over the centuries(?)



Our local Tlingit and Haida were not sissy pacifists like the Aztecs. I would have really enjoyed REH "bringing these warriors to life" in one of his stories. We keep trying to help our one long time SCA Tlingit fighter into going to more traditional armour but he does not want to give up his open face helm.

[deuce]

So I'm still excavating a Swift Creek/Weeden Island village and mound site near Panama City. Yesterday this figurine/adorno head popped up in a feature near a shell midden. It's very unusual to find one of these, especially outside of a funerary context. I thought I'd share it with you guys.
Jeff

I missed this originally. Very cool, Theagenes.

[deuce]

A very interesting find in Alaska:


http://www.colorado....f531dc88a5.html

Who knows? Perhaps it belonged to a lost and forlorn Hun who sailed with the Inuit. Almost a Howardian tale in that.

[deuce]

In 2007, MIT tried to decode Quipu/Khipu, the only totally three-dimensional writing system known to history:

http://courses.csail....edu/iap/khipu/

[Ironhand]

Topologically, it appears to be only 2D.

I know someone who has done research in rosaries, and I'm going to ask her about QK.

[deuce]

The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

[Kortoso]

The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

Interesting. No mention of whether they were in contact with the Incan civilization.

[deuce]

The golden Warrior-Kings of the Nata:

http://ngm.nationalg...s/williams-text

Interesting. No mention of whether they were in contact with the Incan civilization.

Hey Kortoso! I assume you mean one of the earlier cultures making up the Andean Civilization continuum. The graves being excavated are about a 1000yrs old.

I have to chuckle when I hear people talk about the "ancient Aztecs" or the "ancient Incas". It's quite analogous to saying the "ancient Swiss" or the "ancient Portuguese".

I'm sure there were various contacts with Mexico, the Yucatan, the Amazonian civilization AND the cultures of the Andes. There is plentiful evidence for cultural exchange/commerce between all those regions and Panama was quite likely a crossroads.

For some reason (maybe the menhirs), I get a sort of impression of the Nata being "Native Mesoamerican Celts". Anyway, I look forward to more discoveries.

[Kortoso]

Apologies for the crude shorthand. If I had a trowel I would give it up. I still use the term "Romans" when I mean SPQR.

I had searched for connections between the ancient mesoamerican civilizations and those of South America. Tell me what you know of this connection.

[Almuric]

C'mon. Everyone knows what the connection between Mesoamerican civilizations was:

ALIENS!

[deuce]

Traditional Mayan bee-keeping, ancient long before Columbus, is on the way out:

http://news.national..._maya_bees.html

[deuce]

The Red Paint/Maritime culture. Very Cool.

http://www.archaeolo...cts/letter.html

http://en.wikipedia....ed_Paint_People

Bold sea-farers who built complex stone tombs. Five thousand years ago.

[deuce]

Apologies for the crude shorthand. If I had a trowel I would give it up. I still use the term "Romans" when I mean SPQR.

I had searched for connections between the ancient mesoamerican civilizations and those of South America. Tell me what you know of this connection.

Sorry for replying so late, Kortoso. I think that was when I was having to use the library's computers and I only did so 1 or 2 days a week. I also apologise for my slightly pedantic tone.

Below is an excerpt from Rebecca Storey's Pre-Columbian Economy :

...OK, I guess not. Apparently, the "image extension" I used to capture it isn't allowed. So, here's a link:

http://lasa.internat...oreyRebecca.pdf

Scroll down to about p.22 and you should find all kinds of interesting stuff. Believe me, there was extensive trade (mostly in "prestige" items) over 100s, if not 1000s of miles.

Here's an excerpt from an article about the Hudson Museum's "Emerald Man":

What is the source of the raw material?

Emeralds come from only a few localities around the world. Most emeralds occur in metamorphic rocks as a by-product of that environment but Colombian deposits are unique because they are based on hydrothermal processes. Physical characteristics of emeralds, including color, transparency, inclusions, trace elements, specific gravity, refractive index, appearance through the Chelsea filter and florescence under UV light vary depending on locality. The rarity of emerald sources is apparent on a map of origins of emeralds around the world.
During the Conquest, Pizarro and Cortes sent emeralds from Peru and Mexico, respectively, to the Spanish court. Cortes obtained his emeralds from the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan. The only source of the stone in the Western Hemisphere known at the time of the Conquest was Colombia. Emeralds reached as far south as Bolivia and as far north as Mexico by trade. It is known that the Colombian sources were being mined by the Chibcha earlier than AD 1000, but how much earlier is unknown.

Here's a link to the entire article:

http://www.umaine.ed...EmeraldMan.html

[deuce]

Amazing finds in Windover, Florida:

http://www.nbbd.com/...story/windover/

A pity there's no money to adequately study what's been found already.

[deuce]

The "Isthmian/epi-Olmec" script is still undeciphered:

http://news.byu.edu/...n-Isthmian.aspx

That mask is spooky lookin'.

[Ironhand]

Deuce, thanks for some excellantly interesting finds.

[deuce]

Deuce, thanks for some excellantly interesting finds.

No problem. Stuff I like to share. We seem to be entering a Golden Age of Pre-Columbian archaeology.