184 replies to this topic

[The Gneech]

I am looking for direct REH references to Hyperborea; I have seen a lot of references to Conan being "captured by Hyperboreans" (including in the Dark Horse comic), but none of it appears to be in tales actually written by Howard. The only mention I've found so far is in "The Hyborean Age". I -have- found a reference to "Legions of the Dead" but that was deCamp/Carter IIRC.

Am I just missing something? Please enlighten me!

-The Gneech

[Kieran]

In a letter Howard wrote to fan P.S. Miller, Howard mentions after leaving Cimmeria, Conan spent time with the Aesir fighting the Vanir and Hyperboreans. He was captured by the Hyperboreans but escaped and headed south to Zamora to start his thief adventures.

Edited by Kieran, 20 November 2006 - 10:40 PM.

[Brule]

I am looking for direct REH references to Hyperborea; I have seen a lot of references to Conan being "captured by Hyperboreans" (including in the Dark Horse comic), but none of it appears to be in tales actually written by Howard. The only mention I've found so far is in "The Hyborean Age". I -have- found a reference to "Legions of the Dead" but that was deCamp/Carter IIRC.

Am I just missing something? Please enlighten me!

-The Gneech

REH never wrote a story with the hyperboreans there mentioned in a few stories but never used. But yea
deCamp/Carter wrote a few stories with them. "Witches of the Mists", "The Thing in the Cript"

Cheers,
Brule

[Almuric]

Older Minor Spoilers
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The De Camp/Carter stories had the Hyperboreans as a proto-Finnish people ruled by evil sorcerers. Busiek made them into an immortal race that were once human. When they finally got sick of living forever they would jump into a gorge where their insectoid "gods" devoured their remains. Howard never really said much, other than that they had cities with high stone walls.

[The Gneech]

In a letter Howard wrote to fan P.S. Miller, Howard mentions after leaving Cimmeria, Conan spent time with the Aesir fighting the Vanir and Hyperboreans. He was captured by the Hyperboreans but escaped and headed south to Zamora to start his thief adventures.

Thanks for the info!

-TG

[deuce]

How weird. I was just mulling over a similar idea at work. There are actually several references in "The Coming of Conan". One is in "Black Colossus". There's also one in "Phoenix" and some in the background materials in the back of the book.

BTW: shouldn't this be in The Hyborian Age?

[Kortoso]

A number of Hyborian nations were never used in the stories. Conan never visited the Border Kingdom, for instance.

[Senta]

Older Minor Spoilers
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The De Camp/Carter stories had the Hyperboreans as a proto-Finnish people ruled by evil sorcerers. Busiek made them into an immortal race that were once human. When they finally got sick of living forever they would jump into a gorge where their insectoid "gods" devoured their remains. Howard never really said much, other than that they had cities with high stone walls.

i was sure that Howard never described Hyberborea in detail, and wondered where Busiek got his interpretation from. i wasn't aware of the letter from Howard hibnting at Conan fighting Hyperboreans etc.

[Almuric]

Busiek based his Hyperborea on the Greek legend, but with a darker twist.

[Pictish Scout]

Busiek based his Hyperborea on the Greek legend, but with a darker twist.

And some Lord of the Rings ( the movie) Uruk-Hai, I think.

[Kortoso]

There's a "gaunt" Hyperborean in the opening scene of Tower of the Elephant.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Hyperborean trivia: In ancient Greece, Boreas was the god of the north wind. Hyperborea meant "beyond the north wind" i.e. a remote, cold place way up there to the north.

[Mikey_C]

Marc Bolan:

Lionel Lark was an alchemist by professsion but he loved to quest. Li and Mole were a romantic pair. Li, with his many-coloured zodiac coat flapping about as he rode the dawn wind. Rubbing his rimless spectacles, he lectured Mole in his larkish manner about the mythical Lily Pond and its latitude and longitude, and goofing sometimes, and mentioning the Hyperboreans, the frozen folk who lived behind the North Wind.

Utterly irrelevant, but quite a connection for old "groovers" like me!

[deuce]

Is that Marc Bolan as in "T-Rex" Marc Bolan?

[Mikey_C]

The very man. He had quite an interest in fantasy and mythology. That little spaced-out children's story was narrated by none other than the great John Peel in his hippy days.

- Sorry folks, even more off-topic...

Edited by Mikey_C, 28 November 2006 - 12:17 AM.

[deuce]

The very man. He had quite an interest in fantasy and mythology. That little spaced-out children's story was narrated by none other than the great John Peel in his hippy days.

- Sorry folks, even more off-topic...

Damn right, Mikey! We're no thread hijackers! I'll get the ball rollin... Howzabout this: how come ol' KB put all the Hyperboreans (as far as I can tell) in ONE city when Conan himself says they live in "cities" (in "Phoenix")? Hyperborea is a BIG country. How do they defend it? KB makes it seem like Switzerland or Shangri-la (ie, little and REALLY mountainous). Personally, I think REH had a medieval/Renaissance Russia idea in mind for Hyberborea. Comments? See, back on track!

[Sloth-Amon]

They defend it with umm...Extremely high walls, powerfull magic, and uhhh...

10 000 Uruk-hai?

Edited by Sloth-Amon, 30 November 2006 - 12:21 AM.

[deuce]

They defend it with umm...Extremely high walls, powerfull magic, and uhhh...

10 000 Uruk-hai?

I guess I wasn't being clear enough. My question wasn't about how the 'Hyperboreans' (of Busiek) defended their one little mountain city. My question pertained as to how KB's 'Hyperboreans' defended their entire big-a$$ COUNTRY (roughly the size of Texas/Ukraine). Everybody seems to be based out of Kurt's ONE city (let's call it "Hyperborea"), including the "10,000 Uruk-hai"(BTW, how did you arrive at that figure, Sloth-Amon?).

Anyway, why aren't the Aesir, the Border Kingdom, the Brythunians, the Cimmerians, the Hyrkanians and Crom knows who else swarming all over the unfortified, unwatched, unpopulated and unguarded border regions of Hyperborea? The Cimmerians are hillmen. The Aesir have mighty mountains to provide "mountaineer" mercenary bands to take and hold Hyperborean territory. All these virile (and most of them barbarian) nations, surrounding a decadent, sorcerous, wealthy, slaving pustule (sounds a lot like Acheron, doesn't it?) on the face of the Hyborian lands.

Yet, unlike Acheron (which possessed wider lands and more manpower), the Hyborian and barbarian nations didn't overthrow the Hyperboreans until 500+ years after Conan, when the Aesir gave that kingdom its death-blow. How were the "10,000 Uruk-hai", the slaves and the'Hyperboreans' fed? If it's by magic, then KB's city, "Hyperborea", has more magic within its walls than Xuthal, Xuchotl, Dagonia and Mt. Yimsha combined. Basically, in his version of 'Hyperborea', Busiek depicts a society equal to (on a sorcerous level) Acheron (something that REH never implied). That's quite an achievement considering that the Hyperboreans of Conan's time were descendants of wild Hyborian tribesmen who overthrew "Old Hyperborea" 3000 to (maybe) 3500 years before. Fast learners (relatively speaking), those illiterate Hyperborean tribesmen.

For that matter, how did Hyperborea, with it's impoverished/infertile, uber-mountainous environment, ever become the cradle of countless Hyborian tribes? The "Land Beyond the North Wind" didn't become a 'reality'(at least in Busiek's vision of the Hyborian Age) until after "Hyperborean sorcerors" modified the environment. Busiek (or for that matter, deCamp/Carter) didn't read Howard's "The Hyborian Age" anywhere near close enough. More on that later. I've been at the hospital all night and I gotta work tomorrow. Cheers.

Edited by deuce, 30 January 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Taranaich]

To be frank, I don't think Howard mentioned the Hyperboreans having sorcerers at all. All I've read is that their soldiers are gaunt and slow of speech, and that their castles are immense fortifications. Later on in the Hyborian Age, Hyperborea is mentioned as making war on Aquilonia, which would indicate it has a sizeable enough society.

I personally view the Hyperboreans as at the same level of society as "barbarian" societies that took over an ancient realm, such as the Gothic kings of Italy, the Dorians who rampaged over ancient Greece, or the Ostrogoths who established Castille and eventually Spain. I personally thought they were akin to a pre-Hellenic Aegean culture like the Minoans: they had elaborately horned helmets and double-bitted axes like the Nordheimir, plus they have pretty impressive constructions like the palace at Knossus.


The Labrys, a Minoan axe.


Reconstruction of Knossos. Not exactly Cyclopean, but still impressive for a Bronze Age culture.


Who be this mysterious goddess?

[Pictish Scout]

To be frank, I don't think Howard mentioned the Hyperboreans having sorcerers at all. All I've read is that their soldiers are gaunt and slow of speech, and that their castles are immense fortifications. Later on in the Hyborian Age, Hyperborea is mentioned as making war on Aquilonia, which would indicate it has a sizeable enough society.

I personally view the Hyperboreans as at the same level of society as "barbarian" societies that took over an ancient realm, such as the Gothic kings of Italy, the Dorians who rampaged over ancient Greece, or the Ostrogoths who established Castille and eventually Spain. I personally thought they were akin to a pre-Hellenic Aegean culture like the Minoans: they had elaborately horned helmets and double-bitted axes like the Nordheimir, plus they have pretty impressive constructions like the palace at Knossus.


The Labrys, a Minoan axe.


Reconstruction of Knossos. Not exactly Cyclopean, but still impressive for a Bronze Age culture.


Who be this mysterious goddess?

Yeah, I agree with you. They are the first "barbarian" civilization, they built palaces of stone, a primordial kingdom prior to the other hyborian civilizations. I still think they look much the same as other Hyborians ( Nemedians, Aquilonians, Brythunians...). Yet I don't know what "Gaunt" means... gotta check it out.
Actually Visigoths were the ones conquering spain not the Ostrogoths, and Castille was founded centuries latter, after the Moor invasion ( that ended the Visigoth empire), during the " reconquista".