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#1 Pontifex

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:35 PM

do you guys know of any sites or books that discuss magical or mythical creatures? i'm looking for something that might have much lesser known creatures of folklore and stuff like that.

I'm currently reading the Harry Potter books and there are mentions of creatures I have never heard of before. For instance, a Grindylow. Grindylows are a sort of "bogeyman" used as a ploy to keep children from getting in the cold water in the area. They were to grab little children with their long arms and fingers and devour them if they came close to the edge of pools, marshes, or ponds.

#2 Rusty Burke

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 05:12 PM

do you guys know of any sites or books that discuss magical or mythical creatures? i'm looking for something that might have much lesser known creatures of folklore and stuff like that.

I'm currently reading the Harry Potter books and there are mentions of creatures I have never heard of before. For instance, a Grindylow. Grindylows are a sort of "bogeyman" used as a ploy to keep children from getting in the cold water in the area. They were to grab little children with their long arms and fingers and devour them if they came close to the edge of pools, marshes, or ponds.


Me, I'm a big fan of Google. I just typed "grindylow" in and the first hit was a Wikipedia article which tells us it's just what you say, and that this creature originated in folk tales in Yorkshire. I figure that if you enter something in Google and the only hits you get are references to a particular work of fiction, that author probably made it up. In this case, though, Rowling evidently borrowed from folk tradition.

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#3 Pontifex

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 05:30 PM

well, i want to find things i don't know. like the grindylow. i never heard of it before so i want to be able to discover other creatures i don't know about.

#4 deuce

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 06:03 PM

well, i want to find things i don't know. like the grindylow. i never heard of it before so i want to be able to discover other creatures i don't know about.



Hey Pontifex! When I was 20 years old I was in a similar position. I'd just discovered FRP Gaming. I was the DM for my crew and I wanted cool and authentic critters for buds to encounter (and usually kill). I knew already that most of the bogies in the D&D Monster Manuals™ were either made up or wildly inaccurate. So, time to research for myself (something I enjoy anyway). Most of my crew said they really enjoyed the different (ie, authentic) take on monsters/non-humans.

Anyway, I don't have any specific bestiaries to recommend. It was a while back and I got most of my sources from the library. Luis Borges wrote a famous one, though some of the beasties he made up himself. A lot of the supernatural creatures that we take for granted, like "gnomes", were invented in relatively recent times by one person (Paracelsus, in this case). A very good place to start would be reference works on mythology/legendry/folklore. Those will lead you quickly to other, more specific sources. One other source that I would recommend is Lin Carter's Kesrick series. While not the greatest writer in the world, Carter was an absolute top-flight scholar of the weird and fantastic. Each book has a glossary in the back that discusses each and every "fantastic" thing mentioned in the novel. You should be able to pick them up plenty cheap. Hope that helps. :)

BTW, I wonder if the "grindylow" (malevolent creature, associated with water) has any connection (at least linguistic) with "Grendel"?

Edited by deuce, 12 January 2007 - 06:43 PM.

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#5 Rusty Burke

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 10:11 PM

well, i want to find things i don't know. like the grindylow. i never heard of it before so i want to be able to discover other creatures i don't know about.


Here's a site that came up with a Google search for "mythical creatures," looks pretty good. No grindylows, though.

http://webhome.idire...rs/monsters.htm

Rusty

#6 PainBrush

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 06:16 PM

do you guys know of any sites or books that discuss magical or mythical creatures? i'm looking for something that might have much lesser known creatures of folklore and stuff like that


Okay I got the one you have to get a copy of : Funk and Wagnell's Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend . I have the hardcover 1973 edition that compiled the earlier 1949 editions under one giant cover with lots of additions & revisions - it has like 1200 pages with tiny-tiny little font-type on very thin pages( what I mean is this book is HUGE with more of the above subjects than you will probably ever finish reading , it weighs like 10 pounds ! - Think 'Yellow-Pages' but on white opaque pages instead ) I have a whole bookshelf dedicated to folklore/legend/myth/religion etc. & this is the single best book I have ever had on those subjects .

There's everything from the Celtic myths ( including the mannanans & Lir & the other obscure ones Conan swore by Crom & dozens others)& banshuigs ( banshees) to all the Norse & teutonic legends , all the Viking legends & religions over to American southern black slave folk legends , hillbilly mountain tales & legends , all the Indian legends/myths & religions from the polar North tribes down to Central & South America , to obscure Middle eastern cults , Siberian shamanism , through daemons & angels & changelings & dwarves etc. in all cultures , the wee folk , brownies , to Punjab phangra dancing , to the phurbus used by Tibetan Lamas & sorcerors to drive off & stab demons , to Hungarian & Lithuanian folklore & witch stories all the way to the 'Z's & the 'Zya' which is the Buriat drawing of a person on a cloth by a shaman to work magic against someone with incantations who cannot survive unless he gets a more powerful shaman to undo it . Loup Garous/werewolves/vampyrs/vrykulakas/vrags & werdolaks . Just random jumping around there to show how varied all the subjects/cultures/religions/races etc. are .

There's a key to " countries , regions , cultural areas , Peoples , Tribes & ethnic groups " with references to 2,405 countries etc. from 5 continents & dozens of islands of the world - it starts at Aberdeenshire to Zoroastria , Zulu & Zwiebrucken . There's also a lot of stuff like city-specific folklore & legends in numerous countries - like the Headless horseman/Hessian legends , old New Amsterdam/New York legends , Jersey Devil , southern states folklore & all kinds of dances from indians/blacks/every ethnic group in America as well as all the same stuff from London , Paris , Ireland , Scotland & on & on . Lots of voudoun/Houdou , Creole , Cajun , African , Jamaican , Carribean Islands stories, legends & folklore . I think you get the picture , this things pretty comprehensive & definitely one of the best books I have on 'any' subject - worth hunting down , thank me later !

I did a quick look on Amazon & there's some copies on there - make sure you pay attention to which edition you get if you decide to order one , the 1949 version is a collectors item & will be costly & it will be in multiple volumes - not the one volume big edition from 1973 with all the extra articles & pages . There is another supposed softcover version - but I tried to get a copy before & had no luck , I don't know if the '1' of that edition listed on Amazon still is the guy I tried before & who told me he didn't still have it or not .

I have that book Deuce mentioned by Jorge L. Borges too - it is a pretty good read , not real detailed just a page or 2 per being or creature listed but he has some pretty cool obscure stuff in there too . A few oddities like " A creature imagined by Kafka" & " A creature imagined by C.S>Lewis" " The ANimal Imagined by Poe"

" The Book of Imaginary Beings " by J.L.B. Avon books -paperback .

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 13 January 2007 - 06:32 PM.

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#7 Pontifex

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:36 PM

do you guys know of any sites or books that discuss magical or mythical creatures? i'm looking for something that might have much lesser known creatures of folklore and stuff like that


Okay I got the one you have to get a copy of : Funk and Wagnell's Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend . I have the hardcover 1973 edition that compiled the earlier 1949 editions under one giant cover with lots of additions & revisions - it has like 1200 pages with tiny-tiny little font-type on very thin pages( what I mean is this book is HUGE with more of the above subjects than you will probably ever finish reading , it weighs like 10 pounds ! - Think 'Yellow-Pages' but on white opaque pages instead ) I have a whole bookshelf dedicated to folklore/legend/myth/religion etc. & this is the single best book I have ever had on those subjects .

There's everything from the Celtic myths ( including the mannanans & Lir & the other obscure ones Conan swore by Crom & dozens others)& banshuigs ( banshees) to all the Norse & teutonic legends , all the Viking legends & religions over to American southern black slave folk legends , hillbilly mountain tales & legends , all the Indian legends/myths & religions from the polar North tribes down to Central & South America , to obscure Middle eastern cults , Siberian shamanism , through daemons & angels & changelings & dwarves etc. in all cultures , the wee folk , brownies , to Punjab phangra dancing , to the phurbus used by Tibetan Lamas & sorcerors to drive off & stab demons , to Hungarian & Lithuanian folklore & witch stories all the way to the 'Z's & the 'Zya' which is the Buriat drawing of a person on a cloth by a shaman to work magic against someone with incantations who cannot survive unless he gets a more powerful shaman to undo it . Loup Garous/werewolves/vampyrs/vrykulakas/vrags & werdolaks . Just random jumping around there to show how varied all the subjects/cultures/religions/races etc. are .

There's a key to " countries , regions , cultural areas , Peoples , Tribes & ethnic groups " with references to 2,405 countries etc. from 5 continents & dozens of islands of the world - it starts at Aberdeenshire to Zoroastria , Zulu & Zwiebrucken . There's also a lot of stuff like city-specific folklore & legends in numerous countries - like the Headless horseman/Hessian legends , old New Amsterdam/New York legends , Jersey Devil , southern states folklore & all kinds of dances from indians/blacks/every ethnic group in America as well as all the same stuff from London , Paris , Ireland , Scotland & on & on . Lots of voudoun/Houdou , Creole , Cajun , African , Jamaican , Carribean Islands stories, legends & folklore . I think you get the picture , this things pretty comprehensive & definitely one of the best books I have on 'any' subject - worth hunting down , thank me later !

I did a quick look on Amazon & there's some copies on there - make sure you pay attention to which edition you get if you decide to order one , the 1949 version is a collectors item & will be costly & it will be in multiple volumes - not the one volume big edition from 1973 with all the extra articles & pages . There is another supposed softcover version - but I tried to get a copy before & had no luck , I don't know if the '1' of that edition listed on Amazon still is the guy I tried before & who told me he didn't still have it or not .

I have that book Deuce mentioned by Jorge L. Borges too - it is a pretty good read , not real detailed just a page or 2 per being or creature listed but he has some pretty cool obscure stuff in there too . A few oddities like " A creature imagined by Kafka" & " A creature imagined by C.S>Lewis" " The ANimal Imagined by Poe"

" The Book of Imaginary Beings " by J.L.B. Avon books -paperback .



Thanks for the replies guys. PB, that 1st book sounds awesome! I'll definitely check into that one.

Edit: I ordered a like new copy of the one you have, PB.

Edited by Pontifex, 13 January 2007 - 11:04 PM.


#8 Nick Morbius

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 05:24 AM

first post, woohoo!


you can often find small print run books from specific areas that detail the floklore and ghost or horror stories of that town or area. keep an eye out on ebay and look at ebay in other english speaking countries (not just going through the ebay search options from ebay.com, but putting the .co.uk or other countries tag in the web address)

#9 Buxom Sorceress

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 07:49 AM

do you guys know of any sites or books that discuss magical or mythical creatures? i'm looking for something that might have much lesser known creatures of folklore and stuff like that...

Read the great Mythological Booklists at this B) Link...

http://www.thewildhu...eral_misc.shtml

------
PAINBRUSH: thanks for the info about
Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
by Maria Leach.

according to Funk and Wagnalls' Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend, "to get a new dress all a girl need do is to catch a butterfly of the desired color and crush it between her teeth while muttering a magic formula,"

so next time your woman asks for a new dress...just hand her a butterfly net and tell her to go choose whatever she likes...?? :D

i will send my invisible stalker to bring me a copy so i can read more speculation about myself and my eldritch mutated family... ;)

Edited by Buxom Sorceress, 14 January 2007 - 08:12 AM.


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#10 Pontifex

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 04:11 AM

Grr...I was expecting my book to arrive by now so I emailed the company I ordered from. They had "server problems" and lost my order. Since I emailed them, they tried to place my order but found they don't have the book in stock and said they are refunding me my money.

So now I have to find another copy somewhere. I found another "new" copy for $54 (the original one I tried to get was $32). I could get a used one for a little less but i'd rather have new if i can get it. I'm kinda scared about buying used without pics. I will email them pics.

I also found another seller who has both HB editions for $69. He says they are in very good condition, very little wear. I'm tempted to go with these. I asked him for pics of these too.

So we'll see. I'm really anxious to get this book.

#11 PainBrush

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:05 PM

Grr...I was expecting my book to arrive by now so I emailed the company I ordered from. They had "server problems" and lost my order. Since I emailed them, they tried to place my order but found they don't have the book in stock and said they are refunding me my money.

Yeah that sounds just like the problem I had when I was trying to get a newer copy of the softcover edition , the hardcover one I have is getting threadbare on the cover & getting pretty beat up so I was trying to get another reading copy but didn't want to spend big on another hardcover , that may be the only ones out there though . I think maybe the reason for that might be - the hardcover version I have is like 3 inches thick & with small type , I can't imagine them setting type any smaller - so how the hell do you make a softcover book 3 inches thick that won't fall apart after a short amount of reading ? - May be why there's no copies to be found anywhere .

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 23 January 2007 - 10:07 PM.

" You have a good point there,...put your helmet on & no-one will notice it ."
" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "
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#12 Pontifex

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:24 PM

Grr...I was expecting my book to arrive by now so I emailed the company I ordered from. They had "server problems" and lost my order. Since I emailed them, they tried to place my order but found they don't have the book in stock and said they are refunding me my money.

Yeah that sounds just like the problem I had when I was trying to get a newer copy of the softcover edition , the hardcover one I have is getting threadbare on the cover & getting pretty beat up so I was trying to get another reading copy but didn't want to spend big on another hardcover , that may be the only ones out there though . I think maybe the reason for that might be - the hardcover version I have is like 3 inches thick & with small type , I can't imagine them setting type any smaller - so how the hell do you make a softcover book 3 inches thick that won't fall apart after a short amount of reading ? - May be why there's no copies to be found anywhere .


so which do you like better, the HB or PB? What is easier to read or of better quality? i'm really leaning towards the HB ones

#13 PainBrush

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:35 PM

No , that's what I meant - I never did get a copy of the softcover book so that's why I was speculating that there aren't too many of them around , because I think a softcover of that size would probably fall apart quickly with repeated reading . Yeah , I would prefer to get the hardcover version if that's the case , I'm not sure how much extra stuff is revised or added from the 2 seperate earlier printing to the single edition later printing - but the 2 volume would probably be the one in the better condition of any old copies for the same reason - bigger books fall apart quicker & this is definitely a big book .

" You have a good point there,...put your helmet on & no-one will notice it ."
" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "
So THIS is civilization ??!??!......

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#14 Pontifex

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 12:21 AM

No , that's what I meant - I never did get a copy of the softcover book so that's why I was speculating that there aren't too many of them around , because I think a softcover of that size would probably fall apart quickly with repeated reading . Yeah , I would prefer to get the hardcover version if that's the case , I'm not sure how much extra stuff is revised or added from the 2 seperate earlier printing to the single edition later printing - but the 2 volume would probably be the one in the better condition of any old copies for the same reason - bigger books fall apart quicker & this is definitely a big book .


Oh, sorry. I guess I didn't read it properly. Guess I'll get both HBs then. Guy wants $69.95 for both so thats a good deal to me!

#15 Buxom Sorceress

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:12 AM

hey guys, i just got a paperback [pb] 1984 version of
Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
edited by Maria Leach.

it is indeed a huge very heavy cumbersome book! it should NEVER have been printed as a 1 vol pb IMO.
its in good condition inside BUT the spine is almost broke thru in 3 evenly spaced places. not surprised by this: the sheer weight of the book when opened out causes this.
[ in fact i ordered the 1996 pb thru amazon-uk marketplace: 'thebookbarns' uk seller sent it in 3 days, BUT it was the 1984 pb! + it was poorly packaged.]
but since there were no old hardback versions available, i am just glad to read any version of it for now.

> Amazon search tip: sometimes their search menu cannot find a book by title. so also search by author name aswell. [ typing Maria Leach found it for me]
----
PONTIFEX: $70 sounds like a good deal for the 2 hardbacks. hope you enjoy them.
are they the 1949 versions or a later printing?
----
PAINBRUSH: is there anything else you want to know about my 1984 pb version?
and thanks again for revealing the existence of this fascinating olde reference tome. :)
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[ i will cradle it with care, but if it eventually falls apart i will ask Grizelda to re-bind it properly with a special hard cover of Pictish oak and Stygian crocodile skin. ;) ]

#16 PainBrush

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 02:18 AM

PONTIFEX: $70 sounds like a good deal for the 2 hardbacks. hope you enjoy them.
are they the 1949 versions or a later printing?
----
PAINBRUSH: is there anything else you want to know about my 1984 pb version?
and thanks again for revealing the existence of this fascinating olde reference tome. :)

Nah , you already mentioned what I suspected about such a big book in softcover maybe not having a real long shelf-life if you read it a lot . if I do get myself another copy I'm going to probably get another hardcover or the earlier 2 volume edition - since I do have the later one already any revisions or extras in the later version I can always look up there . Great book isn't it ? Lots of stuff you might never read or find anywhere else , there's a lot of things in there I tried to look up online & never had any luck finding .

" You have a good point there,...put your helmet on & no-one will notice it ."
" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "
So THIS is civilization ??!??!......

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#17 Pontifex

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 03:29 AM

Buxom: The seller says they are the 1949 editions. I was going to post the seller's description of the items but I can't bring it back up anymore now that I bought it. He said they are in very good good condition with very little wear. I just hoped he wasn't lying. He has 415/415 (100%) positive feedback so I should be good.

I guess I'm kind of glad the 1st seller didn't have the paperback version.

#18 Pontifex

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 11:47 PM

the books came today. I only glanced through a couple entries and all i have to say is WOW! Everything from Native American to Irish to Japanese myths and legends.

only thing i'm a bit disappointed in is no pictures. Pictures would have made it perfect.

#19 Buxom Sorceress

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 01:09 AM

the books came today. I only glanced through a couple entries and all i have to say is WOW! Everything from Native American to Irish to Japanese myths and legends.

glad you can enjoy your new treasure-trove of seemingly endless myths now. :)

i hope that in 10-15 years time, that most of the rarest myths in the books will have been put online [ + picture links] in an indexed 'mythological wiki-pedia section'?
they should be enjoyed by many more people.
--
[ i will have to update the Witches section sometime:
about my great olde aunt Brushmalia. she invented the 1st hovering broomstick. :lol: ]

#20 PainBrush

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 01:36 AM

[ i will have to update the Witches section sometime:
about my great olde aunt Brushmalia. she invented the 1st hovering broomstick. :lol: ]

hmmmmm , my great-great-great olde aunt might have bought that first hovering broomstick fom your great olde aunt ! We'll both have to update them with some info that'll flip their wigs !! :lol: it was no kidding an great-great-great to the nth degree olde aunt of mine back over there in Auldern Scotland who was the first witch ever ( in Scotland) to confess under horrible torture that she & her fellow coveners flew to their sabbats on broomsticks ! She was also the first to tell them what a 'familiar' was (her favorite usually dressed as a black cat!) She was the first to reveal that there were 13 in a coven . Her name was Isabel Gowdie , they put her through hell . They then executed her for telling them what they wanted to hear ! There's all kinds of stuff about her online , there's even a bunch of songs about her . Aha , I found the song info & link; ISOBEL GOWDIE CLASSICAL SYMPHONIC

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 31 January 2007 - 02:37 AM.

" You have a good point there,...put your helmet on & no-one will notice it ."
" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "
So THIS is civilization ??!??!......

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