34 replies to this topic

[Taranaich]

Merci beaucoup, Mr Louinet! I know I would buy a book of Howard's Conan drafts. Heck, if Chris Tolkien can publish J.R.R's multitude of notes and scribbles about Middle Earth I don't see why Howard shouldn't have his own "History of the Hyborian Age" book, or even series if there's enough material.

draft a: "When Eruk, the proud city of queen Tamuris, defied [Natohk's] hordes, he changed the course of a river by his magic, so that it undermined the walls, making a breach for his hawks to ride through." [In the first draft of "Queen of the Black Coast", Belit was originally called Tameris]

Intriguing, wonder where Tamuris/Tameris comes from. Tomyris of the Massagetae seems a good possibility, considering her later appearances in art. There's also the Hebraic root Tamar, meaning "Date", maybe Howard was being a bit tongue-in-cheek .

I think Belit was a more poetic choice though, personally, I'm glad he changed it.

draft b: ?Amalric, delving into the scenes of a turbulent life, recalled a desperate battle on the northern frontier, and wild figures rushing into the melee ? tall, supple women, stark naked, their black hair streaming, their eyes blazing, swords dripping redly in their hands. He shook his head?

Man, I really wish that bit didn't get cut out, it's a very striking passage.

"Shushan" replaced "Nippr" except when Thugra mentions that this is where he sleeps, which was replaced not by Shushan, but by Akbatana.

Makes sense, since Shushan is referred to as "The Imperial" it would probably make a strong base for Natohk.

A question though: what do these passages and snippets mean for the Howard mythos? Should they be counted as "canon" except when they contradict the final article (i.e. changed names/places), or are they just apocrypha? It would be nice to have some more stuff for the Hyborian Age from Howard's own pen (erm, typewriter) after all.

P.S. I always though Zuagros was related to the Zuagir in some way, either as it's current base of operations or their ancestral homeland. Though I don't know if it fits with Conan's implied destination exactly.

[Fernando]

There is also the draft name for Khoraja in BLACK COLOSSUS; Khoraspar, a principality ruled by a count (and later a princess).

It seems pretty apparent from the context of HOUR OF THE DRAGON that Howard changed the origin of the Acheronians from an advanced Hyborian tribe in the synopsis to one of a much more Stygian bent. In fact, there isn't any mention of the Acheronians being Hyborians in the actual novel. Now in essence, I might be able to entertain the notion of a Hyborian Acheron, although it plays hell with the timeline and completely contradicts THE HYBORIAN AGE essay. The thing is how much of the information in the synopsis has changed in becoming the novel. The Acheron of the synopsis is a lot bigger than the one given in the novel, for one thing. The synopsis locations also flatly contradict the "Northern Stygian lands" recounted in BLACK COLOSSUS, since there are in the same location at the same time. It doesn't really appear that Howard followed through on his original ideas when he wrote HOTD.

I agree 100% with you, Rippke! And I don't see why doubt if Acheron was founded by the Giant Kings (of course it was!). In my opinion, that empire was ideed built for the same white-skinned pre-Stygian people from wich Xaltotun and Thalis were descendants (and wich is also the same race of Thuron and Akivasha). I don't believe the physical resemblance among those four characters is a simple coincidence. I'm also longing to see your timeline's sequence, in the Mongoose.

So would Zuagros be the capital of the queen of Ophir?

Why not?! Howard never mentioned that capital's name in his texts. Zuagros is, in my opinion, a better name than "Ianthe" (from the LSDC's pastiche "The Star of Khorala").

Edited by Fernando, 31 December 2007 - 01:35 PM.

[Axerules]

Hello Fernando, are you doing well, friend ?
We already discussed this -at length- in the "Acheron" thread. But here are a few reminders.

I'll start with a short critique of Mr Rippke's "necroed" (is THAT a word ? ) post:

It seems pretty apparent from the context of HOUR OF THE DRAGON that Howard changed the origin of the Acheronians from an advanced Hyborian tribe in the synopsis to one of a much more Stygian bent. In fact, there isn't any mention of the Acheronians being Hyborians in the actual novel.

There isn't a single reference to "giant-kings" or "Elder racians" in THotD either. Nor ANY reference at all about g-k's in another REH yarn, synopsis or note than TGitB, written a LONG time before the novel.

Now in essence, I might be able to entertain the notion of a Hyborian Acheron, although it plays hell with the timeline and completely contradicts THE HYBORIAN AGE essay. The thing is how much of the information in the synopsis has changed in becoming the novel. The Acheron of the synopsis is a lot bigger than the one given in the novel, for one thing.

To be more accurate, Acheron itself contradicts THA, be it an Elder Racian/giant-kingish dominated Acheron or an Hyborian one. I don't recall any mention of Hyborians enslaved by an ancient race in the West in the essay. There isn't a single reference to Acheron in any other text than the novel and the synopsis. I could have written the same sentence as Darkstorm to bolster the opposite POV.

BTW, IF REH "jettisoned" the timeline when he wrote THotD (something Mr Rippke stated in the Mongoose Forum a few months ago), what does it say about a certain essay dealing with Akivasha's origins ? It would become void.

It doesn't really appear that Howard followed through on his original ideas when he wrote HOTD.

In the synopsis AND in the finished story, REH used the SAME description for Xaltotun. In the first place, it was used to portray an HYBORIAN.

I agree 100% with you, Rippke! And I don't see why doubt if Acheron was founded by the Giant Kings. In my opinion, that empire was ideed built for the same white-skinned pre-Stygian people from wich Xaltotun and Thalis were descendants (and wich is also the same race of Thuron and Akivasha). I don't believe the physical resemblance among those four characters is a simple coincidence.

Fernando, please: is there a single reference to Thuron being an "Elder racian" in REH's texts ? Mr Rippke wrote it in HH because Thuron "fitted" with HIS invented definition of the Elder Race. REH didn't. Look closely at the descriptions of the two alledged members of the Elder race.
In The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune story, the girl of the Elder Race is described like this: "Fine gold was her hair and her violet eyes were slanted strangely; she was beautiful, but her beauty meant little to Kull." Tuzun Thune, the second true member of the Elder Race: "The man was ancient as the hills of Zalgara; like wrinkled leather was his skin, but his cold gray eyes were like sparks of sword steel." Are they also supposed to be the ancestors of the g-ks ? Do they have obvious similarities with Thuron, who wasn't an Elder Racian ? With Akivasha/Thalis/Xalt ?

[Fernando]

Hello Fernando, are you doing well, friend ?

All right with me, meu grande amigo!

Fernando, please: is there a single reference to Thuron being an "Elder racian" in REH's texts ? Mr Rippke wrote it in HH because Thuron "fitted" with HIS invented definition of the Elder Race. REH didn't. Look closely at the descriptions of the two alledged members of the Elder race.
In The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune story, the girl of the Elder Race is described like this: "Fine gold was her hair and her violet eyes were slanted strangely; she was beautiful, but her beauty meant little to Kull." Tuzun Thune, the second true member of the Elder Race: "The man was ancient as the hills of Zalgara; like wrinkled leather was his skin, but his cold gray eyes were like sparks of sword steel." Are they also supposed to be the ancestors of the g-ks ? Do they have obvious similarities with Thuron, who wasn't an Elder Racian ? With Akivasha/Thalis/Xalt ?

Well, maybe the expression "Elder Race" can be used for Thuron and also for the two The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune's characters you've mentioned (in Men of the Shadows didn't the Picts speak of themselves like the first human race? Maybe this expression is used for all the first humans of Howard's fiction, no matter their physical features...); or maybe Thuron simply doesn't belong to the Elder Race! But I keep believing that the Giant Kings were descendants of Thuron's people and became later the Acheronians' ancestors, and I also think the - using your own words - "obvious similarities" among Thuron, Akivasha, Xaltotun and Thalis aren't only coincidence.

About Akivasha, I still believe her father Tuthamon was a Giant King, and the first king - or one of the firsts kings - of Elder Stygia (due to the fact she and Tuthamon existed in the same time of Elder Stygia's foundation: 10,000 years before Conan). In the essay The Mystery of Pre-Human Stygia, the only mistake I've found was the gap of only 6,500 years between the Great Cataclysm and Conan's Age - and this was corrected by Mr. Rippke in his Mongoose's chronology.

About Thalis, she can be descendant of white-skinned Stygians (Giant Kings) with dark-skinned ones, from the royalty, what can explain her Stygian features. I don't believe - as it was said in "Acheron..." thread - she was white because of sun's lack on her skin. B?lit was a princess before she became a pirate, but though she sailed in tropical and sunny regions, her skin didn't become dark.

And, finishing this post, a Happy 2008 for you, for all the REH Forum's members, moderators - and everyone who somehow work here - and for all your and theirs familys and friends!

Edited by Fernando, 04 January 2008 - 08:42 PM.

[Darkstorm Dale]

Didn't know where else to put this, but it seems to fit the topic so here goes nothing.

Upon reading Patrice Louinet's "Hyborian Genesis" (excellent, informative essay) I was struck by his observation that Howard began writing THE HYBORIAN AGE after THE GOD IN THE BOWL. He proceeds to talk about Howard's "ambiguous phrasing" on the subject of writing the essays leading people to the conclusion that Howard wrote the essay before the stories (THE COMING OF CONAN THE CIMMERIAN, pp 440). He then writes: "While there is no denying that Howard had some ideas as to what his Hyborian world was to become, there was no attempt at systemization until after the first three stories were written."

I believe that Patrice is wrong about this. I really think that Howard conceived THE HYBORIAN AGE essay concurrently with the first three stories. I realize that I'm going to need proof to back up my assertion.

Patrice claims (on pp 437) that the term Hyborean is used in the Conan story THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. He claims that the word Hyborian wasn't introduced by Howard until the last draft of his essay. I have no reason to doubt this.

The problem with his theory, to my way of thinking, lies with the first, two page draft of the essay. In this draft, Howard plainly states: "Ten thousand years after the sinking of Atlantis, this northern race is found to have spread in successive waves all over the known world, they are a hardy race, of mixed complection, though the original type was blond. Living for centuries in other climates has changed the complection of some, resulting in mixed colors. The people are in many different tribes, but are designated by the general name of Hyperboreans." Later on he writes: "The Picts, through contact with the Hyperboreans - here used in the sense of the whole race - have begun another slow climb of progress; they are somewhere between the state of savages, and that of barbarians." So Hyperborean is the first choice for the term that eventually becomes Hyborian. Also, Howard states in this first draft that five thousand years pass between the founding of the earliest kingdom of Hyperborea and the world as it appears at the height of their civilization. Chronologically, this is quite different than how this data is presented in THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD.

In THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD, Howard relates a bit of the timeline; fifteen hundred years between the life of Epemitreus the Sage and the reign of King Conan. Epemitreus lived at a time ?when the world was young and men were weak?? His life was dedicated to fighting the influence of his god?s arch-nemesis; Set. From the context, it seems clear that he lived at a time when the Hyborean world was young and its men were weak (the time when the tribes began to build the earliest nations). Conan, on the other hand, lives at the height of the Hyborean civilization. So the dates given in the story are not the same as the first draft of the essay.

These two clues show that the first draft of THE HYBORIAN AGE essay was almost certainly written PRIOR to Howard?s first Conan tale.

The second draft of the essay spells the name Hyborean, just like THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. Howard also changes the timeline laying it out in much the same way that it appeared in the first story; the first kingdoms being formed fifteen hundred years before the Hyborian world is swept away at its height.

Patrice mentions that the genesis of Howard?s second Conan tale, THE FROST-GIANT?S DAUGHTER, was probably created during the writing of the first story; Conan relates a bit about the Nordheimer race. Interestingly enough, the second draft of the essay also expands upon the role of the Nordheimer race in his world?s history. Howard appears to be experiencing creative synergy between his stories and his historical essay.

I cannot absolutely place when Howard wrote the second draft; certainly after PHOENIX and maybe after TFGD, as well. While it?s possible that he could have drafted it before PHOENIX and used the facts from the draft in his story, I tend to discount this. It makes more sense, from a world-builders point of view, that Howard wrote his very basic first draft, and then wrote PHOENIX, and finally wrote the second draft, revising it to use the facts laid down in the first story.

The third draft and the finalized essay were written pretty much when Patrice believes; between the third story, THE GOD IN THE BOWL and the fourth, THE TOWER OF THE ELEPHANT. There really aren?t many differences between the two; the final essay is just a considerably fleshed out version of the third draft. The name of the tribe becomes ?Hyborian? as of the third draft, and the fifteen hundred year timeline doesn?t change in either the third draft or the finished essay.

The way I see it, Howard wasn?t being ambiguous at all, this essay existed in some form from the very beginning.

My two bits, at any rate?

Edited by Darkstorm Dale, 06 February 2008 - 04:57 AM.

[elegos7]

Dale,

Where could you find the drafts of THE HYBORIAN AGE? I have only seen the final version, but would be interested in the earlier drafts as well. The Del Rey edition contains only the final version.

Didn't know where else to put this, but it seems to fit the topic so here goes nothing.

Upon reading Patrice Louinet's "Hyborian Genesis" (excellent, informative essay) I was struck by his observation that Howard began writing THE HYBORIAN AGE after THE GOD IN THE BOWL. He proceeds to talk about Howard's "ambiguous phrasing" on the subject of writing the essays leading people to the conclusion that Howard wrote the essay before the stories (THE COMING OF CONAN THE CIMMERIAN, pp 440). He then writes: "While there is no denying that Howard had some ideas as to what his Hyborian world was to become, there was no attempt at systemization until after the first three stories were written."

I believe that Patrice is wrong about this. I really think that Howard conceived THE HYBORIAN AGE essay concurrently with the first three stories. I realize that I'm going to need proof to back up my assertion.

Patrice claims (on pp 437) that the term Hyborean is used in the Conan story THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. He claims that the word Hyborian wasn't introduced by Howard until the last draft of his essay. I have no reason to doubt this.

The problem with his theory, to my way of thinking, lies with the first, two page draft of the essay. In this draft, Howard plainly states: "Ten thousand years after the sinking of Atlantis, this northern race is found to have spread in successive waves all over the known world, they are a hardy race, of mixed complection, though the original type was blond. Living for centuries in other climates has changed the complection of some, resulting in mixed colors. The people are in many different tribes, but are designated by the general name of Hyperboreans." Later on he writes: "The Picts, through contact with the Hyperboreans - here used in the sense of the whole race - have begun another slow climb of progress; they are somewhere between the state of savages, and that of barbarians." So Hyperborean is the first choice for the term that eventually becomes Hyborian. Also, Howard states in this first draft that five thousand years pass between the founding of the earliest kingdom of Hyperborea and the world as it appears at the height of their civilization. Chronologically, this is quite different than how this data is presented in THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD.

In THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD, Howard relates a bit of the timeline; fifteen hundred years between the life of Epemitreus the Sage and the reign of King Conan. Epemitreus lived at a time ?when the world was young and men were weak?? His life was dedicated to fighting the influence of his god?s arch-nemesis; Set. From the context, it seems clear that he lived at a time when the Hyborean world was young and its men were weak (the time when the tribes began to build the earliest nations). Conan, on the other hand, lives at the height of the Hyborean civilization. So the dates given in the story are not the same as the first draft of the essay.

These two clues show that the first draft of THE HYBORIAN AGE essay was almost certainly written PRIOR to Howard?s first Conan tale.

The second draft of the essay spells the name Hyborean, just like THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. Howard also changes the timeline laying it out in much the same way that it appeared in the first story; the first kingdoms being formed fifteen hundred years before the Hyborian world is swept away at its height.

Patrice mentions that the genesis of Howard?s second Conan tale, THE FROST-GIANT?S DAUGHTER, was probably created during the writing of the first story; Conan relates a bit about the Nordheimer race. Interestingly enough, the second draft of the essay also expands upon the role of the Nordheimer race in his world?s history. Howard appears to be experiencing creative synergy between his stories and his historical essay.

I cannot absolutely place when Howard wrote the second draft; certainly after PHOENIX and maybe after TFGD, as well. While it?s possible that he could have drafted it before PHOENIX and used the facts from the draft in his story, I tend to discount this. It makes more sense, from a world-builders point of view, that Howard wrote his very basic first draft, and then wrote PHOENIX, and finally wrote the second draft, revising it to use the facts laid down in the first story.

The third draft and the finalized essay were written pretty much when Patrice believes; between the third story, THE GOD IN THE BOWL and the fourth, THE TOWER OF THE ELEPHANT. There really aren?t many differences between the two; the final essay is just a considerably fleshed out version of the third draft. The name of the tribe becomes ?Hyborian? as of the third draft, and the fifteen hundred year timeline doesn?t change in either the third draft or the finished essay.

The way I see it, Howard wasn?t being ambiguous at all, this essay existed in some form from the very beginning.

My two bits, at any rate?

[Darkstorm Dale]

Dale,
Where could you find the drafts of THE HYBORIAN AGE? I have only seen the final version, but would be interested in the earlier drafts as well. The Del Rey edition contains only the final version.

I received a compact disc containing scans of the first three drafts from a member of the REH Foundation. The plan is that I will write an essay about the drafts and hopefully get it and the drafts published in a fanzine or journal somewhere down the road.

Personally, I find them to be fascinating, although some people will be a bit disappointed. Howard's view of his history is 90% intact on the first draft and there isn't a great deal of change from draft to draft other than the timelines and some minor details. The first draft differs more than the other two. If anyone cares I could list some of the more interesting changes (just be warned; what is interesting to me may not be all that interesting to others).

[deuce]

If anyone cares I could list some of the more interesting changes (just be warned; what is interesting to me may not be all that interesting to others).

Thanks for the insights, Dale! Sounds like a cool project. I'm sure if you wanted to post "the more interesting changes", noone would mind.

[Darkstorm Dale]

Thanks for the insights, Dale! Sounds like a cool project. I'm sure if you wanted to post "the more interesting changes", no one would mind.

I don't have a lot of time to spend on this tonight, so I'm just going to concentrate on the first draft in this post.

Howard calls the pre-cataclysmic era the ?Atlantean Age?. The kingdoms of Kamelia, Valusia, and Verulia dominate this age. He reiterates some of the history from the Kull tales: "The people were of a mixed race and nothing is known of their origin; their legends said their ancestors came out of the east, and overthrew a strange civilization, on the ruins of which their own was erected.".

The Lemurian refugees aren?t subjugated. Instead, they build their ?strange semi-civilization? on the ruins of an unknown pre-cataclysmic civilization. The growth of their civilization drives out one of the tribes that inhabited the area. This tribe in turn destroys ?an incredibly ancient civilization?, and substitutes their own, modified by contact with the older culture; this is Stygia.

Howard names his polar race the Hyperboreans; he hasn't settled on Hyborian yet.

The biggest difference is that the timeline of events varies considerably from the published essay. In this draft, ten thousand years has passed between the sinking of Atlantis and the settlement of the ?Hyperboreans? in the western part of the continent. Another five thousand years pass before the race has broken into the kingdoms that dominate the Conan stories. The Pictish-Hyrkanian destruction of the Hyperborean nations and the Nordic drifts occur over another five thousand year span of history. It?s a pretty rough timeline, all things considered.

That all for now.

[elegos7]

Hi Dale,

Thanks for those insights into the genesis of this essay. It really makes sense that the first draft was written before THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD.

The second draft of the essay spells the name Hyborean, just like THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. Howard also changes the timeline laying it out in much the same way that it appeared in the first story; the first kingdoms being formed fifteen hundred years before the Hyborian world is swept away at its height.

I made a quick search for the word Hyborean and it does not appear in PHOENIX. Where did you get this info? Even the word Hyborian appears only in his 5th completed story, THE SCARLET CITADEL.

I am really looking forward to your essay. I am even more interested whether you can reconcile the different Hyborian timelines Howard has proposed:
1. 1500 years passed between the earliest Hyborian nations and Conan's time (this info comes from PHOENIX and THE HYBORIAN AGE)
2. The Hyborians destroyed the northern Stygian kingdom and Acheron 3000 years before Conan's time (as in BLACK COLOSSUS and HOUR OF THE DRAGON)

Which timeline is more probable? Or is it possible that the length of the years were meant to be different in these stories?

[Darkstorm Dale]

I made a quick search for the word Hyborean and it does not appear in PHOENIX. Where did you get this info? Even the word Hyborian appears only in his 5th completed story, THE SCARLET CITADEL.

Fom the Hyborian Genesis essay. Patrice claims (on pp 437) that the term Hyborean is used in the Conan story THE PHOENIX ON THE SWORD. I'm sure he has a reason for thinking so. Perhaps Howard uses the word in one of the early drafts of TPotS.

I am really looking forward to your essay. I am even more interested whether you can reconcile the different Hyborian timelines Howard has proposed:
1. 1500 years passed between the earliest Hyborian nations and Conan's time (this info comes from PHOENIX and THE HYBORIAN AGE)
2. The Hyborians destroyed the northern Stygian kingdom and Acheron 3000 years before Conan's time (as in BLACK COLOSSUS and HOUR OF THE DRAGON)

Which timeline is more probable? Or is it possible that the length of the years were meant to be different in these stories?

The 3000 year date first appears in THE SCARLET CITADEL (the founding of Khorshemish), which was written maybe a month after THE HYBORIAN AGE essay. It appears to me that Howard jettisoned the 1500 year dating used in the essay and in PHOENIX pretty quickly for whatever reason. Frankly, I think the 3000 year dating shows Howard's intentions pretty clearly. I could speculate as to why he did it, but I really have no definitive proof that I'd be right (or even close).

[Patrice Louinet]

Dale,

I see you are having quite a lot of fun with this! Careful, it can become addictive...

Interesting theory about "The Hyborian Age", however there is this little problem:
The Aesirs, or should I write AEsirs ?

The word Aesir appears that way in: Phoenix, draft a, and the "Hyborian Names" page

Then it becomes AEsir (Phoenix b1, b2, b3, Frost a & b, Hyborian Age, a, b, and c. etc. no exceptions)

Conclusion, draft a is anterior to "Hyborian Age", all drafts. I very seriously doubt Howard would have written "The Hyborian Age" in-between draft a & b of Phoenix.



Patrice

Edited by Patrice Louinet, 13 February 2008 - 02:56 AM.

[timeless]

"Once again, thanks Patrice. You're a prince amongst scholars." - Deuce



Deuce nailed it. You're the Man, Patrice. Always great to read your stuff.

[Fernando]

Mais oui, c'est effectivement le cas!
Black Colossus
Published version: 14,400 words
draft b (c being a partial): 16,200
draft a: 17,200

Here are a few items of interest buried in those drafts:

draft a: "When Eruk, the proud city of queen Tamuris, defied [Natohk's] hordes, he changed the course of a river by his magic, so that it undermined the walls, making a breach for his hawks to ride through." [In the first draft of "Queen of the Black Coast", Belit was originally called Tameris]

draft b: ?Amalric, delving into the scenes of a turbulent life, recalled a desperate battle on the northern frontier, and wild figures rushing into the melee ? tall, supple women, stark naked, their black hair streaming, their eyes blazing, swords dripping redly in their hands. He shook his head?

"Aphaka" replaced "Gath"
"Shushan" replaced "Nippr" except when Thugra mentions that this is where he sleeps, which was replaced not by Shushan, but by Akbatana.

And yes, here's the discarded scene between Conan and Kutamun, from draft b:

Yet remained one man who would not flee. In the swirling red chaos that seethed and writhed before Conan's rearing steed, a terrible figure suddenly
appeared like a red apparition. It was prince Kutamun, naked but for a breech-clout, his armor hacked away, his crested helmet battered, his broken sword
clotted and crusted red. Blood ran from a score of wounds, but the blaze in his dark eyes was undimmed, and with a terrible shout, he hurled his broken hilt full into Conan's face, and leaping, seized the reins of the screaming stallion. The Cimmerian reeled in his saddle, half stunned, and with an awful exhibition of strength, the dark-skinned giant forced the stallion upward and backward, until the frantic charger lost his footing and crashed into the muck of bloody sand and writhing bodies.
Conan sprang clear as the horse fell and with a roar Kutamun was on him. Locked in a death-grapple they swayed and strained for an instant, then went
down together. In that mad nightmare of battle, Conan never exactly knew how he killed his man. He only knew that a stone in the Stygian's hand crashed
again and again on his bascinet, filling his sight with flashing sparks of red, and somewhere, his groping hand closed on a dagger which he drove again and again into his foe's body, without apparent lessening of the prince's terrible vitality. The world was swimming to the Cimmerian's sight when with a convulsive shudder, the frame that strained against his [sic] stiffened and then went limp.


Patrice

I don't want to interrupt the discussion on the first The Hyborian Age's draft, but, since the Del Rey didn't publish this good stuff, where could I find the whole versions of the 3 first Black Colossus' drafts?

[johnnypt]

Patrice,

Thanks for those tantalizing glimpses into some of the Conan drafts.
Is there a chance that all the Conan synopses and drafts will be published? Christopher Tolkien published The History of Middle-earth in several volumes, containing all the notes of his father relating to Middle-earth.
I think many of us would be interested in a similar series about the Conan tales of Howard.

In the meantime, we would welcome any interesting detail that would add the world of Conan.

No plans yet to publish these; but you never know...

Patrice

Should it ever come to pass, count me as a definite sale!