48 replies to this topic

[Boot]

In a D&D context, it's hard to imagine gods intervening without nuking the PC's out of existence. A god gets pi$$ed, and he wipes out most of the human race with a worldwide flood, or immolates a couple of cities, or causes an evil kingdom to lose an existential war.

In most D&D universes, characters of the Cleric class get their power directly from the god they worship. Sometimes, bonus spells are granted to the uber faithful.

This may be true of the Hyborian Age, but, then again, it may not. Is Sorcery a science with absolute and direct cause and effect? Or, is it a gift (or a curse) of a demon...or a god? We don't quite know. I like the mysterious aspect of sorcery (and mostly, of the gods, sans a few instances) during the Hyborian Age as opposed to typical D&D worlds.

[Ironhand]

In a D&D context, it's hard to imagine gods intervening without nuking the PC's out of existence. A god gets pi$$ed, and he wipes out most of the human race with a worldwide flood, or immolates a couple of cities, or causes an evil kingdom to lose an existential war.

In most D&D universes, characters of the Cleric class get their power directly from the god they worship. Sometimes, bonus spells are granted to the uber faithful.

This may be true of the Hyborian Age, but, then again, it may not. Is Sorcery a science with absolute and direct cause and effect? Or, is it a gift (or a curse) of a demon...or a god? We don't quite know. I like the mysterious aspect of sorcery (and mostly, of the gods, sans a few instances) during the Hyborian Age as opposed to typical D&D worlds.

In that case, we're not talking about gods intervening directly in human affairs. Instead, a priest casts a spell, and claims it's the god answering his plea. And who can contradict him?

[constantine]

In that case, we're not talking about gods intervening directly in human affairs. Instead, a priest casts a spell, and claims it's the god answering his plea. And who can contradict him?

Ironhand

Well said. That's the problem when one confuses an RPG system (in that case Mongoose's) with the parameters of a fantasy world, specifically here Howard's Hyborian Age. When, for example, priests of Mitra practice some form of magic against an evil sorcerer, as in THotD when Tarantine priests battle Altaro (probably with some form of apotropaic magic), they must have been taught about it through certain of their sacred texts and not the ''standard'' spellbook. So, it is one thing to use specific rules to present magic in a game and another to turn them into a definitive authority on the nature of the divine in REH's imaginary world.

Of course, cults of spurious origins can always appear, but that doesn't discredit most of the major faiths of the Hyborian Age. In the end, the gods Howard presents in his fictional world are no more mysterious than the deities worshiped throughout (real world) history.

[Kortoso]

Also, REH, in his storytelling, often deliberately injects ambiguity into this tales.

[LordYam]

I believe that even if there are benevolant gods, they have enough flaws that they qualify as grey at best. I loved how in the comics one of mitra's preists states "gentle gods require ambitious servants" and other sources state that he does have high standards and has somewhat of a judgemental dogmatism. So while mitra may be more benevolant, he can still be pretty nasty at times even if he is capable of compassion. Mitra's priests were descended from Epimitreus's chosen, so I think Epimitreus might have had a connection with him

[constantine]

The corruption of priests does not reflect on the nature of the deities. Mitra is not a ''nasty'' god at all when judged by his actions (indirectly in BC) or those of his highest disciples (Epemitreus in TPotS). A quote coming out of a DH comic does not change that, nor does the character of Nabonidus in RitH.

There are also the examples Arus in THA and the Aquilonian priesthood in THotD, which was decimated by black magic and dark entities. These seem quite consistent with the doctrine of Mitra's faith.

Edited by constantine, 12 September 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[LordYam]

It's just that I read an essay arguing that Good Gods aren't necissarily intended. I thought a black and grey morality might be better suited for Conan (in that even the most benovolent beings may be willing to dirty their hands a few times.) In a grim world like this, purely moral people are less likely to endure

[Ironhand]

Conan's own moral ambiguity is easier to stomach if the whole world, both mortal and divine, is morally ambiguous at best and horribly evil at worst.

Edited by Ironhand, 13 September 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[deuce]

It's just that I read an essay arguing that Good Gods aren't necissarily intended.

What essay?

I thought a black and grey morality might be better suited for Conan (in that even the most benovolent beings may be willing to dirty their hands a few times.) In a grim world like this, purely moral people are less likely to endure

Conan worships Crom. That doesn't change the fact that in the very first Conan tale (The Phoenix on the Sword ), "forces of Light" are mentioned and the implication is that Conan survived the attack by the Set-demon directly as a result of the intervention of said "forces of Light". The foundation of the entire "Conan saga".