99 replies to this topic

[Spartan198]

REH never mentioned any,but considering the proposed timeline,I wouldn't be surprised. Mammoths or mastadons wouldn't be any different from elephants in regards to domesticating for warfare or labor. Rhinos,however,I'm a bit more skeptical about.

[Zula]

Greetings!
He rode that 'creature' in "The Scarlet Citadel"

Other than that;women and horses(not in that order!)


Tu

Yes, I believe they were called Opliphaunts, or some such thing

[Taranaich]

In Red Nails, Howard used "mastodon" as a metaphor. Elsewhere he used "cyclopean" and by that logic we should see armies of Cyclopes.

The difference being Mastodons were real, and that they were around at the same time as Conan.

Mammoths and Mastodons were largely extinct before known examples of elephant domestication, so it's basically unknown whether they could be used as mounts or labourers as elephants were, though since they're extremely similar it's a possibility.

Rhinos are a different matter though: they are too short-sighted, temperamental and territorial to work well as a cavalry unit. It could be possible to capture infants and raise them as war/pack animals, but I can't think of any historical precedent for it.

However, in terms of Howard's writing, the subject never comes up.

Yes, I believe they were called Opliphaunts, or some such thing

"The oliphants sounded a fanfare of triumph all over the plain..."

I think the oliphants in Scarlet Citadel were the musical instruments made of elephant tusks as opposed to elephants (oliphant being an archaic spelling). It would be fun imagining Koth had elephants, but since Howard never refers to them again I don't think this was the case.

[Almuric]

Mastadons were mentioned, I seem to recall, in The Tower of the Elephant.

[Spartan198]

Rhinos are a different matter though: they are too short-sighted, temperamental and territorial to work well as a cavalry unit. It could be possible to capture infants and raise them as war/pack animals, but I can't think of any historical precedent for it.

However, in terms of Howard's writing, the subject never comes up.

It would be pretty darn cool,though.

[deuce]

Mastadons were mentioned, I seem to recall, in The Tower of the Elephant.

Hey Almuric! You're close. "TTotE" mentions lots of elephants in Hyrkania. Conan compared the size of the "dragon" in Red Nails to a mastadon.

[Almuric]

Ah, thank you. I was too lazy to look it up.

[Kortoso]

Mastadons were mentioned, I seem to recall, in The Tower of the Elephant.

Not in my copy.

[Zula]

What about a hippo mount? Surely they rent those riverside along the River Styx?

[Ironhand]

Hippos are vicious. Crocadiles are scared of them. Rhinos are much more tractable.

[Taranaich]

A hippo mount is an even crazier idea than a rhino mount - as Ironhide said, those things are somewhat unfriendly to say the least.

Perhaps they're the real reason Stygia didn't fall to foreign invasion...

[Zula]

I just saw some hippos wimming the other day...amazing...the mass of those things, and they move so fluidly under the water

[The Great Gonzo]

Hi I was speaking with my uncle who is a big Robert E Howard fan about the upcoming Age of Conan MMORPG. I told him about the Rhinos and Mammoth mounts in the game and he said that he doesn't recall ever seeing Robert E Howard having people riding Rhinos and Mammoths in his Conan stories. So I was wondering what you guys thought about this? Did Robert E Howard ever have any of that in his writings?

I don't think rhinos could ever actually be tamed or domesticated. But I know that some ancient eastern peoples (can't remember which ones right now...maybe Persians?) brought war-elehants to battle.

[Spartan198]

I don't think rhinos could ever actually be tamed or domesticated. But I know that some ancient eastern peoples (can't remember which ones right now...maybe Persians?) brought war-elehants to battle.

I think a Rhino's brain would be too small for anything outside of a single, crazed, suicidal charge at an enemy line, a' la 300.

But war elephants were common to peoples all across the Mediterranean. The Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, Persians, Indians, etc., all used war elephants at some point in their history.
That was my premesis for suggesting a possible existence of war mammoths or mastadons in Conan's time. The tundra mammoth finally died out at the end of the Pleistocene, about 11,500 years ago, which corrosponds to the Hyborian Age about 500 years after King Conan, if I'm putting my numbers together correctly.
(Not to mention a dwarfed race still lived on Wrangel Island until around 1700 BC)

[Ironhand]

If a rhino calf is raised by humans from babyhood, it will be very docile and affectionate, and will follow its keeper around like a puppydog. I have often wondered if Africans' lives would be different if they domesticated rhinos as beasts of burden. Think how strong they are!

[Boot]

I'm assuming every detail of Conan has been discussed at some time on these boards. This particular tid-bit could have been missed (though it would not surprise me if there are pages and pages in a thread devoted to it).

In Howard's story there's a line that intrigues the hell out of me. It's at the end of chapter IV of The Devil in Iron. Conan sees a skin among a pile of furs that wrap a dias. It's described as a gorgeous, spotted skin with a predominantly golden hue.

Conan recognized the skin as that of a beast that had been extinct for at least 1,000 years. "...it was the great golden leopard which figures so prominently in Hyborian Legendry, and which the ancient artists delighted to portray in pigments and marble."

Wow. Look at that. With half a sentence, Howard creates an entire aspect of Hyborian culture--or the presumption of one. Man, I love that guy's writing.

But, this post is about speculating on how the Golden Leopard figures into the Legends of the Hyborians. Anybody want to speculate?

Has this been mentioned elsewhere in any Howard work or pastiche? How about in the comics?

Edited by Boot, 17 May 2011 - 03:40 AM.

[Kortoso]

Wow. Look at that. With half a sentence, Howard creates an entire aspect of Hyborian culture--or the presumption of one. Man, I love that guy's writing.

I reach.

From one point of view, which I call "apologist", you know there is the snow leopard in central Asia, which must have been a legend in Howard's time.

But what legends would have been told of this golden leopard? How would it have been represented in Hyborian art? Interesting.

[Munthasem]

It's exactly the thing we all have been blabbing about realism in the very basis of the Hyborian world.
Reading just that small passage, leaves the feeling of something ancient times could have spawned. It's like a great legends driven directly from the cave drawings. The art that doesn't depicting some greater cause in that typical fantasy genre but more turned to animistic and natural conected side of some long gone and forgotten passage in the ancient history of mankind. A passage where legends, myths and sagas lives.

It's much stronger and ads much more depth. Just imagine what a volcano might have looked like to some iron age people. How not to imagine the dragon or whatever horrible beast after seeing that. People invented Thor, Perun, Zeus, Taranis etc to describe thunder. Just one simple vibrations of an air heathed by the lightning bolt which causes the hideous roar from the skies. I mean, you hear roaring from the darkened, cloudy skies, back then when you didn't have physics to explain it. How on earth wouldn't you imagine some great powerfull god that wields a big hammer or galloping the horses dragging the carriage over the sky?

These things add to realism by dragging the parallels between the myth and the realism and adds much more juice to the stories, characters and overall atmosphere than just some randomly invented magic.