38 replies to this topic

[dr Bo]

I can see Howard as a war correspondent, even without journalist credentials. All sorts of publications sent out correspondents, not just newspapers, and he had connections in the magazine world. Hell, even the Harvard Yachting News kept a permanent correspondent on Guadalcanal because so many Harvard grad yachtsmen were in the small craft service there. Remember JFK and his PT 109? He could have gotten a Texas paper or magazine to send him overseas just to report on Texas servicemen. I see the big difficulty as his well known reluctance to leave Cross Plains. As for his postwar career, he'd have had to change something, because the pulps crashed in the late 40s.

I think in all Howard wanted to write and live by his writing. So becoming a war correspondend, if it would allow him to keep up working as writer is a possibility.

As for the disapearence of Pulp in the 1940's I wouldn't have been surprised to see him turn into a comic author, or maybe more likely a radio play writer, maybe up to a television one in the 1950's.

[Ironhand]

I can see Howard as a war correspondent, even without journalist credentials. All sorts of publications sent out correspondents, not just newspapers, and he had connections in the magazine world. Hell, even the Harvard Yachting News kept a permanent correspondent on Guadalcanal because so many Harvard grad yachtsmen were in the small craft service there. Remember JFK and his PT 109? He could have gotten a Texas paper or magazine to send him overseas just to report on Texas servicemen. I see the big difficulty as his well known reluctance to leave Cross Plains. As for his postwar career, he'd have had to change something, because the pulps crashed in the late 40s.

I think in all Howard wanted to write and live by his writing. So becoming a war correspondend, if it would allow him to keep up working as writer is a possibility.

As for the disapearence of Pulp in the 1940's I wouldn't have been surprised to see him turn into a comic author, or maybe more likely a radio play writer, maybe up to a television one in the 1950's.

If he had been a war correspondant, that, plus his pulp experience and reputation, would have been sufficient credentials to get him such a job.

[Jack LesCamela]

I think following December 7th, 1941 Robert E. Howard would have done what almost every man his age did or sought to do: Enlist. Hopefully he would have become a war correspondent. Had he survived the war, I think done very well as a writer of paperback originals (which replaced the pulps), and then hardcovers. Westerns were big at the time so I'm guessing that's what he would have concentrated on, but there are good arguments that he would have done historicals, etc. as well

[crossplain pilgrim]

I just discovered this thread. Timeless is great at thinking up these topics with a connection to history. Unlike some of the Howard scholars who have posted here, I am not so confident about posting on what Howard would, or would not, have done in a hypothetical situation. So, of course, I will.

First, however, I think deuce made a tongue-in-cheek comment about Hemingway spending the war in the Florida keys. He did, in fact, travel in the European theater as a war correspondent. I remember reading in one of Ernie Pyle's great books (now there's a guy who deserves another movie and a couple more biographies) of his meeting with Hemingway in France. It was somewhat humorous because they were both in awe of each other.

As for Howard's actions if World War II, I think first you have to assume that either Howard's mother had survived until late 1941 or that he had survived her death and been able to maintain something approaching a healthy mental and physical shape in the years leading to the war. I think if Howard's mother had passed, and Howard had found a way to reconcile himself to her death, that he would have been more inclined to put Cross Plains behind him. At least to fight a war.

Some have mentioned Howard's anti-war poetry, including the one's about World War I. The literary world and even Hollywood produced a ton of anti-war novels and films during the '30's. That pretty much disappeared after Pearl Harbor. Even the famous lefty writers got pretty jingoistic after Hitler invaded Russian in 1940. Howard was a populist with the usual distaste for generic fat cats of industry and corrupt officials, but like most American populists (especially Southern populists) he loved his country in the abstract. Some of Howard's poetry showed he could be just as conventionally patriotic as the next guy. I think he would have volunteered the day after Pearl Harbor. If his mother was long gone, I think he might have enlisted in one of the European armies after the invasion of Poland.

In addition to Howard's patriotism, I think he was sensitive to what other's thought of him. He worked, consciously or subconsciously, at maintaining his image as a real man. I don't think he could have done anything less than fight, and still live with himself. He would have desired a rifle over a typewriter for he duration of the war. With his toughness and brains, I think he would have made a damn good soldier. I'd want him in the foxhole next to me just for the conversation.

Presuming he survived the war, I think Howard would, like most writers who were "over there," would have written about what he experienced. If the likes of Leon Uris came back with good novel about the war inside then, Howard would have carried a great one. There has been much written about how Howard would have moved into western fiction if he had lived. I don't argue that. But I think he would have retained his restive, elective literary tastes and would have continued to dabble in many different genres. I do think he would have matured and stepped up to more legitimate literary venues, much in the way Raymond Chandler and Robert Heinlein did.

I think there is a real possibility that some of Howard's stuff would have reached the theater screen by the 1950's, but not Conan, Kull and the other S&S heroes. By that time guys like Glen Lord would have been driving out to Cross Plains to importune Howard about publishing the old fantasy stuff, or perhaps write more. He would have gone back to Cross Plains, of course. Maybe bought a ranch house outside of town. Faulkner remained in Mississippi. Howard would have stayed in Texas. I love to imagine him alive in the late '60's and '70's when the world rediscovered him. I think he would have damned it all, shut himself up in his house behind his typewriter, and privately enjoyed it all very much.

[THE KID]

Any ideas?

Not as a soldier, at age 35. Not as a correspondent, either, lacking journalism experience (except for some oil industry news.)

Would he have stayed in Texas and wrote Westerns?

Interesting speculation...

I believe REH would have stayed in his house with his dad and continued writing. I also believe Novalyn Price would return back into his life in a major positive way after the death of his mother and that they would eventually get married and have children. No woman could understand and talk to REH the way she could. They both were passionate about their works, intellectual, enjoyed each others company, and were perfect for each other. His writings and prose would never be the same. Because Novalyn was in theater and plays I believe Bob would help her in this area and they might have embarked on writing theatrical plays and eventually branch into television and movies.

OR

I believe REH would have stayed in his house with his dad and been a recluse and continued writing. As he once said he goes on this road/path alone and continued on with his wonderful writings that had the best return on investment.

Because Lovecraft and REH were so close I believe that when Lovecraft died (1890-1937) this would have left a huge impact on REH and his horror writings and prose would get darker and scarier.

Pertaining to Novalyn Price - While working as a teacher at Daniel Baker College, Price met and, in 1947, married William Ellis. Price and Ellis resided in Louisiana and gave birth to one son in 1949. She passed in 1999.

[amster]

1941-1945: following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, nationally famous Western and Boxing writer Robert E. Howard temporarily retires from writing to enlist in the army. Due to his remarkable physical health, especially for someone in his mid-thirties, the Army enthusiastically accepts him. Sgt. Howard proves to be a soldier of uncommon valor, distinguishing himself in North Africa, Italy, and finally, in France.

1945-1950: Robert E. Howard returns home to Crossplains and resumes his writing career. The experience of war gives his writing a depth that was absent before, and eventually he begins to return to some of his characters that enjoyed major popularity with readers of Weird Tales, including Conan, Bran Mak Morn, and Solomon Kane. Although he had abanded these characters more than a decade earlier because he no longer felt a connection with them, first hand experience with violence and bloodshed served to breathe new life into his creations. In 46, REH strikes a deal with fellow Weird Tales writer August Derleth and his publishing company Arkham House to publish a collection of his short stories. Skull Face and Others is a modest success, but its a start.

Meanwhile, REH reconnects with an marries his old sweetheart Novalyne Price.

1954: REH has enjoyed tremendous sucess as a writer of Western Stories, and many of his most popular stories such as The Vultures of Whapeton have been made into popular films starring actors such as John Wayne and Henry Fonda. Nevertheless, his dark fantasy stories still only enjoy modest success with a relatively small fanbase. Looking to change that, REH strikes a deal with small hardcover publishing company Gnome Press to publish all of his Conan stories in to a single collection. The twelve volume series is a minor success, but still fails to break through in a major way. The same year, fellow fantasy writer and correspondent JRR Tolkien publishes the first volume of his landmark trilogy The Lord of the Rings.

1961: The genre of dark fantasy that REH created is now known as "Sword and Sorcery", a term coined by friend and fellow writer Fritz Leiber. Other young writers begin contributing to the genre, including a British writer who describes his albino character as the "Anti-Conan". Meanwhile, Boris Karloff's Anthology show Thriller adapts Pigeons From Hell into a one hour episode.

1964: The Valley of the Lost is adapted into an episode of The Twilight Zone in its final season.

1966: Its a time a political and cultural upheaval. REH, now sixty, witnesses the paperback editions of Lord of the Rings finally break through and enjoy major popularity. He decides to give his Conan stories one more shot at mainstream success, and signs a deal with Lancer books for a series of fifteen paperbacks. With covers by up and coming fantasy, comic, and movie poster artist Frank Frazetta, REH feels that he has stumbled upon a winning formula. The first volume, Conan of Cimmeria, is a worldwide success and cultural phenomenon. By 1971, by the time the final volume, The Hour of the Dragon, is published, millions of copies have sold worldwide.

1970: a deal is signed with Marvel comics for a Conan series. Kull, Solomon Kane, and Bran Mak Morn quickly follow. Meanwhile, Conan of Cimmeria, with special effects by Ray Harrihausen, and starring Sean Connery, is one of the biggest box office successes of the year. Still, many fans are dissappointed by the bloodless, family friendly tone of the film.

1976: now seventy, REH successfully sues minor SciFi writer and proverbial gossip monger L. Sprague deCamp for libel for referring to REH in print as "maladjusted to the point of psychosis", and alledging that REH had had an incestuous affair with his long deceased mother Hester. REH says publicly that he'll forgive the monetary amount if deCamp will agree to meet him in the boxing ring for three rounds. DeCamp declines and pays up.

1981: REH, screenwriter and co-executive producer, fires director John Milius from the set of Conan the Cimmerian, citing creative differences, particularly Milius' insistence on giving the title role to an unknown Austrian bodybuilder.

In a parallel universe, all of this really happened.

[crossplain pilgrim]

Pretty cool alternative-history, Amster. I would have preferred a version where De Camp accepts the challenge and gets punched senseless by the old boy.

[amster]

Pretty cool alternative-history, Amster. I would have preferred a version where De Camp accepts the challenge and gets punched senseless by the old boy.

Thanks! I would like to see that, too, believe me, but I tried to present a plausible history that could have actually happened. I thought REH actually beating LSdC senseless would be a bit over the top.

[Fierro]

Great topic.

I think it's safe to assume that REH would have served ? most did ? but I doubt it would have been in a combat capacity. There were plenty of jobs for writers in the War and I think that's realistically what he would have been doing, especially as he wrote so passionately so early on about the thuggery of fascism.

Post war, he probably would have had great success in the Western market, which, as has been noted, was thriving at the time. My hunch is that his S&S days would have been over. I also have always thought he might have created a good Cold War spy/agent character something like Matt Helm, perhaps bringing in supernatural elements a la the Soviets trying to resurrect some ancient sorcery ? something that would have utilized REH's predilections but updated for the current market.

It strikes me that he would have greatly enjoyed the advances in movies, both in terms of content and production values. Watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with my daughter last night, I thought that an elderly Howard (in his late 70s) might have really dug Raiders of the Lost Ark.

All this assumes of course that he could have overcome the depression that hounded him to his doom. Unfortunately, that's hard to believe for this counterfactual. I think he would have killed himself somewhere along the line no matter what, perhaps after losing the sense of purpose provided by the War.

[deuce]

Here's a blog by Leo Grin that takes a look at how REH might have reacted to WWII:

http://www.thecimmerian.com/?p=211

It also gives the spotlight to a very talented, brave soldier who didn't make it out alive.

[deuce]

Here's a cool article: http://www.thecimmerian.com/?p=10

The first part is mainly concerned with Howard Days 2005, but the latter half deals a lot with what Howard might've done if he'd lived past 6-11-1936. The two main people giving their opinions are Bill "Black Indy" Cavalier and James Reasoner, both very sharp Howard scholars.

[docpod]

I just found out Friday that REH's high school classmate, Clarence S. Boyles, Jr. who wrote westerns served in the Marine Corps in WWII.

Morgan

[guilalah]

'The Story of World War II', Donald Miller, revising Henry Steele Commager; ch. 13 'A Marine at Pelileu', p. 411; citing Eugene Sledge, 'The Old Breed':

In a break in the fighting, Sledge saw a dead Japanese soldier squatting on the ground in front of his machine gun. The top of his head had been blown off, cleanly severed as if a saw had cut it. "I noticed this buddy of mine just flippin' chunks of coral into the skull. . . . It rained all that night and the rain collected inside of his skull. . . . Each time [my buddy's] pitch was true, I heard a little splash of rainwater in the ghastly receptacle. . . . There was nothing malicious in his action. This was just a mild-mannered kid who was now a twentieth-century savage. . . .
"We all had become hardened. We were out there, human beings, the most highly developed form of life on earth, fighting like wild animals."

I wonder if Howard would have tried his hand at a WWII story? Definitely could have given scope for his pechants for history, weirdness, visceral action and the psychology of people in stressful situations.

[EM Erdelac]

I could imagine that if Howard had gone over, he would have defintely turned out something about his war experiences, the way Richard Matheson did with The Beardless Warriors.

But I'm inclined to agree with Richard. Something tells me he wouldn't have enlisted. But I have no basis, factual or speculative. Just a gut feeling.

[Officer Aggro]

He'd have been about 35 if he'd enlisted, which was kind of old. If he did, I'm guessing he'd be in a non-combative role (one of my grandfathers was 27, which was considered older, and was stationed in England on the ground crew for the US Air Force). But certainly he'd have gathered some good stories from others, and he'd likely have written a yarn or two about them. At the very least, I imagine he'd have written something similar to an El Borak story with WWII happening in the background.

[guilalah]

THotD, the next to last chapter, where King Tarascus is killed by disposessed Aquilonians, makes me think Howard would have interest in WWII Italian partisans.
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EDIT:

#38 Tarascus was killed by dispossessed Aquilonians? Wasn't that Valerius?

#39 Ooooops! My brain fart! And I just read HotD last week. (blush)

I'll edit this into my initial post

Edited by guilalah, 05 July 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[Ironhand]

THotD, the next to last chapter, where King Tarascus is killed by disposessed Aquilonians, makes me think Howard would have interest in WWII Italian partisans.

Or the French Resistance.

[constantine]

Tarascus was killed by dispossessed Aquilonians? Wasn't that Valerius?

[guilalah]

#38 Tarascus was killed by dispossessed Aquilonians? Wasn't that Valerius?

#39 Ooooops! My brain fart! And I just read HotD last week. (blush)

I'll edit this into my initial post