[Mikey_C]

For a newbie to REH's boxing tales, which is the best collection to get hold of first; Boxing Stories or Waterfront Fists?

I notice there's some overlap. Does anyone know whether the anthologists both had free reign over which stories to pick, or were there some copyright issues to contend with? Is there any hope, btw, of a complete collection appearing one day?

[Patrice Louinet]

I am working on a project to that effet for the Robert E. Howard Foundation. Nothing definite, nothing done, yet, but I'll keep everyone posted when this gets the green light.

Patrice

[Sermon Bath]

I have the Iron man/Dennis dorgan compilation.....it definitely has a lot of material in it....sorry to say I havent had time to indulge as yet.....you do get a lot of tales for the dollar with that one though

[Rusty Burke]

Mikey_C, on Dec 27 2007, 04:11 PM, said:

Does anyone know whether the anthologists both had free reign over which stories to pick, or were there some copyright issues to contend with?

Paul Herman (editor of Waterfront Fists) had to confine himself to the stories that had fallen into the public domain, while Chris Gruber (Boxing Stories) faced no such limitation (as the Bison books were done in cooperation with REH Properties). If you can afford only one of them, I'd go with Boxing Stories, both for the mix of stories and for Chris's superb introduction. If you end up with WF instead, though, no harm done. Either way, you'll have some good readin' to do.

Rusty

[Ravenscroft]

I would go with Boxing Stories.

As a fantasy/sci-fi reader , i almost never read anything remotely realistic or mundane.
Even expecting the style to be a bit dated , i found these stories easy to read and fun.

If not for the recommendations by many on these boards ,
i probably would never have looked at them.

[Mikey_C]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I think it will be Boxing Stories, then Waterfront Fists if I become absolutely addicted. Patrice's project sounds great, however. Everyone's dream I'm sure is to have a uniform hardback set of all Howard's work, arranged by character / genre. This could bring that nearer.

[deuce]

Hey Mikey! I'm lookin' forward to PL's project as well. A big plus for the Gruber collection is the first-time restoration of Iron Men. However, Paul Herman ALWAYS puts out quality REH collections. Like Rusty said, ya can't lose, ya bum.

BTW, I'm planning on posting about Howard's vision of the "perfect fighting-man" (which would apply to Conan as well, IMO), as shown in his boxing yarns, in the not-too-distant future.

[bdwilner]

deuce, on Dec 29 2007, 07:06 PM, said:

Hey Mikey! I'm lookin' forward to PL's project as well. A big plus for the Gruber collection is the first-time restoration of Iron Men. However, Paul Herman ALWAYS puts out quality REH collections. Like Rusty said, ya can't lose, ya bum.

BTW, I'm planning on posting about Howard's vision of the "perfect fighting-man" (which would apply to Conan as well, IMO), as shown in his boxing yarns, in the not-too-distant future.

Forgive my stupidity, but can anyone enlighten me as to why people who are spellbound by dark fantasy and sword and sorcery and clever twists on historical fiction would be the least bit interested in tales of two-fisted street fighters?

Or do I have Howard's boxing stories all wrong?

Has anyone seen "Hard Times" starring Charles Bronson? Is there any semblance of that to any or all of the Howard pugilist tales?

Thanks.

[deuce]

bdwilner, on Jan 15 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

deuce, on Dec 29 2007, 07:06 PM, said:

Hey Mikey! I'm lookin' forward to PL's project as well. A big plus for the Gruber collection is the first-time restoration of Iron Men. However, Paul Herman ALWAYS puts out quality REH collections. Like Rusty said, ya can't lose, ya bum.

BTW, I'm planning on posting about Howard's vision of the "perfect fighting-man" (which would apply to Conan as well, IMO), as shown in his boxing yarns, in the not-too-distant future.

Forgive my stupidity, but can anyone enlighten me as to why people who are spellbound by dark fantasy and sword and sorcery and clever twists on historical fiction would be the least bit interested in tales of two-fisted street fighters?

Or do I have Howard's boxing stories all wrong?

Has anyone seen "Hard Times" starring Charles Bronson? Is there any semblance of that to any or all of the Howard pugilist tales?

Thanks.

Hey BD! Yeah, I think REH would have liked Hard Times. Howard was a fan of Jim Braddock (the boxer Cinderella Man is based on), among many others. The thing to remember is that boxing was HUGE in Howard's day AND he was a huge boxing fan. He wrote more boxing yarns than he did Conan tales. When Howard writes about combat in a ring, he's simply using the squared circle as a (then) contemporary setting for what he saw as the eternal, primordial, brutal struggle for survival and dominance. The fact that boxers were almost invariably drawn from the working class resonated with REH as well. His serious boxing yarns are quite grim and his comedic yarns are quite humorous.

[Hyborian Frog]

Patrice Louinet, on Dec 27 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

I am working on a project to that effet for the Robert E. Howard Foundation. Nothing definite, nothing done, yet, but I'll keep everyone posted when this gets the green light.

Patrice

I vote for "Boxing Stories" over "Waterfront Fists".

I'm glad to hear that you are working on a complete boxing stories collection for the foundation. I'll definitely purchase that when it is up for pre-order! How many volumes would this theoretical collection contain? One or multiple?

[godzilladude]

Hyborian Frog, on Jan 15 2008, 02:14 PM, said:

Patrice Louinet, on Dec 27 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

I am working on a project to that effet for the Robert E. Howard Foundation. Nothing definite, nothing done, yet, but I'll keep everyone posted when this gets the green light.

Patrice

I vote for "Boxing Stories" over "Waterfront Fists".

I'm glad to hear that you are working on a complete boxing stories collection for the foundation. I'll definitely purchase that when it is up for pre-order! How many volumes would this theoretical collection contain? One or multiple?

At least three, maybe five or six. Lotta material.

[Hyborian Frog]

godzilladude, on Jan 16 2008, 08:59 AM, said:

Hyborian Frog, on Jan 15 2008, 02:14 PM, said:

Patrice Louinet, on Dec 27 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

I am working on a project to that effet for the Robert E. Howard Foundation. Nothing definite, nothing done, yet, but I'll keep everyone posted when this gets the green light.

Patrice

I vote for "Boxing Stories" over "Waterfront Fists".

I'm glad to hear that you are working on a complete boxing stories collection for the foundation. I'll definitely purchase that when it is up for pre-order! How many volumes would this theoretical collection contain? One or multiple?

At least three, maybe five or six. Lotta material.

Just remember, "selected poetry" and multi-volume "complete poetry" takes precedence. Those MUST see publication!!!

[godzilladude]

Hyborian Frog, on Jan 16 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

Just remember, "selected poetry" and multi-volume "complete poetry" takes precedence. Those MUST see publication!!!

Oh, there's enough bodies to work on more than one book at a time. Idle hands, ya know . . .

[Kathulos-Lives]

Does anyone know which stories are included in these two books? Do they overlap, or is there enough difference in the content that both would compliment each other? I have the Ace version of The Iron Man with the Adventures of Dennis Dorgan, and have enjoyed Howard's fight stories. The only Sailor Steve Costigan story I've read is The Serpent Pit in The Book of Robert E. Howard, and I enoyed that one as well.

[Rusty Burke]

Kathulos-Lives, on Sep 16 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

Does anyone know which stories are included in these two books? Do they overlap, or is there enough difference in the content that both would compliment each other? I have the Ace version of The Iron Man with the Adventures of Dennis Dorgan, and have enjoyed Howard's fight stories. The only Sailor Steve Costigan story I've read is The Serpent Pit in The Book of Robert E. Howard, and I enoyed that one as well.

Check out Howard Works, your one-stop source for REH bibliographic info:

http://www.howardwor...ingstories.html
http://www.howardwor...frontfists.html

There is some overlap, but not a lot -- the majority of stories in each book do not appear in the other book. (One overlap that may not be apparent from the lists: "The Apparition in the Prize Ring" and "The Spirit of Tom Molyneaux" are the same story; the former was the title as published in Ghost Stories, the latter is Howard's title; and another that is not quite an overlap: "The Iron Man" is the version of "Iron Men" that ran in Fight Stories, but Howard's original "Iron Men," as published for the first time in Boxing Stories, is 10,000 words longer.)

Reckon you need to get 'em both.

Rusty

[Kathulos-Lives]

Rusty Burke, on Sep 16 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

Kathulos-Lives, on Sep 16 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

Does anyone know which stories are included in these two books? Do they overlap, or is there enough difference in the content that both would compliment each other? I have the Ace version of The Iron Man with the Adventures of Dennis Dorgan, and have enjoyed Howard's fight stories. The only Sailor Steve Costigan story I've read is The Serpent Pit in The Book of Robert E. Howard, and I enoyed that one as well.

Check out Howard Works, your one-stop source for REH bibliographic info:

http://www.howardwor...ingstories.html
http://www.howardwor...frontfists.html

There is some overlap, but not a lot -- the majority of stories in each book do not appear in the other book. (One overlap that may not be apparent from the lists: "The Apparition in the Prize Ring" and "The Spirit of Tom Molyneaux" are the same story; the former was the title as published in Ghost Stories, the latter is Howard's title; and another that is not quite an overlap: "The Iron Man" is the version of "Iron Men" that ran in Fight Stories, but Howard's original "Iron Men," as published for the first time in Boxing Stories, is 10,000 words longer.)

Reckon you need to get 'em both.

Rusty

Thanks, Rusty. I will probably end of getting both of them!

[crossplain pilgrim]

I posted earlier on this thread after finishing "Waterfront Fists." I became such a fan of Howard's boxing yarns, I also purchased "Boxing Stories," despite the overlap on some of the stories. I would be hard put to select which book I prefer, but rather than wimp out, I would have to go with "Waterfront Fists," as it contains a few more of my favorite stories than the also excellent "Boxing Stories." To their credit, both books include "The Pit and the Serpent," "The Bull Dog Breed," and "Texas Fists," my favorite Sailor Steve Costigan stories. "Waterfront Fists," also features larger print, which is a little easier on this old Boomer's peepers.

Someone asked the question why a dark, sword and sorcery fan would be interested in these boxing tales. I think the answer is that these stories move with the same headlong pace of the best Conan stories, feature wonderful iconic Howard characters, and provide the same sort of pure entertainment of REH's S&S yarns. These are the kind of stories that make you forget life's gray, petty disappointments. I vividly recall sitting in an emergency room waiting area, reading a Costigan story and laughing out loud, much to the chagrin of my fellow sufferers. You can almost imagine yourself sitting in an ice house in Cross Plains after watching a couple of fights, enjoying a brew and listening to a bandaged, but smiling Robert E. Howard spin you a yarn about his buddy Costigan's last bout in Singapore.

[Mark Finn]

And let me add this to the "why do I need to read these" discussion:

Boxing was a big deal to Howard; he lived it, breathed it, knew it inside and out. That he wrote and wrote and went back later and still wrote boxing stories, featuring Costigan, for most of his professional career, is signifigant, considering that he didn't go back to any of his other characters for prose stories. He identified with boxing and *yeah, I'll say it* his boxing viewpoints informed the creation of his other characters. Finally, and this cannot be stressed enough, they are just plain funny. If all you know of Howard is Conan, you are only getting on side of a very complicated man. If you really want a better understanding, or at least a more well-rounded picture of Howard the man and Howard the writer, then you must pick up his funny westerns and funny boxing stories. Reading those will give you a totally different perspective on Howard--all the while these stories are in and of themselves quinticentially Howardian.

Try a couple and you'll see what I mean.

[crossplain pilgrim]

Great post, Mr. Finn. The section of your Howard biography ("Blood and Thunder") that deals with Howard's boxing days inspired me to get hold of "Waterfront Fists." Not that "Boxing Stories" isn't equally great.

[Axerules]

I haven't found a "generic" topic on REH's boxing yarns, so I post this link here:
http://www.reindeerm...3-1_boxing.html

Charles R. Saunders, creator of Imaro and REH fan, has found an old article that he wrote thirty years ago about REH's boxing stories, it's now on his blog.