50 replies to this topic

[The Great Gonzo]

I don't see how that's possible. Wouldn't "Indo-European" imply "white"? Aren't Iranians and Hindus brown-skinned easternish people? I sure don't think they're Indo-Europeans by any means...

[deuce]

Actually, GG, there was a picture of a blue-eyed Iranian insurgent on the cover of Newsweek™ less than 3yrs ago. Robert E. Howard had no doubts as to the "Aryan" (Indo-European) origins of the Iranians, Afghans and northern Hindus. He talked about it at length in his letters. Check out the SK fragment, "The Children of Asshur" (it's been readily available for 30+yrs). Blonde-haired Persians in there. There are plenty of red-haired Afghans to this day. The Hindis of northern India are what put the "Indo" in "Indo-European". The study of Sanskrit is what clued-in European scholars to the ancient kinship between the European peoples (excluding the Basques, Finns and Magyars) and the Kurds, Iranians, Tajiks, northern Hindus and many of the Afghan tribes. All of this has been "re-proven" by genetic studies.



Perhaps you should get around more. Or, at least, read more of Robert E. Howard's writings before cocking-off with half-baked theories/threads.

[The Great Gonzo]

Actually, GG, there was a picture of a blue-eyed Iranian insurgent on the cover of Newsweek™ less than 3yrs ago. Robert E. Howard had no doubts as to the "Aryan" (Indo-European) origins of the Iranians, Afghans and northern Hindus. He talked about it at length in his letters. Check out the SK fragment, "The Children of Asshur" (it's been readily available for 30+yrs). Blonde-haired Persians in there. There are plenty of red-haired Afghans to this day. The Hindus of northern India are what put the "Indo" in "Indo-European". The study of Sanskrit is what clued-in European scholars to the ancient kinship between the European peoples (excluding the Basques, Finns and Magyars) and the Kurds, Iranians, Tajiks, northern Hindus and many of the Afghan tribes. All of this has been "re-proven" by genetic studies.



Perhaps you should get around more. Or, at least, read more of Robert E. Howard's writings before cocking-off with half-baked theories/threads.

I didn't know he wrote such interesting stuff. Where do I find it? Is it in a book somewhere? Can this book be located within the vicinity of Vancouver? (so long as I am to assume that it is in fact in a book and not on the internet)

[The Great Gonzo]

Also, is it true that Indo-Europeans are not native to Europe and that it was inhabited by some other people until more warlike peoples (presumably the aforementioned IE's) invaded from the eastern world?

[deuce]

The Savage Tales of Solomon Kane (Del Rey). You obviously have access to the internet. It's worth every penny.


BTW, Wikipedia has PLENTY of articles to educate you (and anyone else who doesn't understand what "Indo-European" means). Just a free service provided by us mods here on the REH Forum.

[deuce]

I didn't know he wrote such interesting stuff. Where do I find it? Is it in a book somewhere? Can this book be located within the vicinity of Vancouver? (so long as I am to assume that it is in fact in a book and not on the internet)

So WHY are you on this forum? Didn't you think/know that REH "wrote such interesting stuff" before? Did you "know" that Robert E. Howard wrote "uninteresting stuff" before you joined?

I guess my question is: Did you think that REH wrote "uninteresting stuff" BEFORE I posted a response to your post?

[Ironhand]

Somehow I thought it had been public knowlege for decades that Hindu Indians were Caucasians. I've known it for decades, and it wasn't an angel from Heaven who secretly revealed it to me, it was just something I read, from several different sources.

[The Great Gonzo]

I didn't know he wrote such interesting stuff. Where do I find it? Is it in a book somewhere? Can this book be located within the vicinity of Vancouver? (so long as I am to assume that it is in fact in a book and not on the internet)

So WHY are you on this forum? Didn't you think/know that REH "wrote such interesting stuff" before? Did you "know" that Robert E. Howard wrote "uninteresting stuff" before you joined?

I guess my question is: Did you think that REH wrote "uninteresting stuff" BEFORE I posted a response to your post?

Before I got to this forum, I always thought that Howard never wrote anything but Conan the Barbarian.

[deuce]

I didn't know he wrote such interesting stuff. Where do I find it? Is it in a book somewhere? Can this book be located within the vicinity of Vancouver? (so long as I am to assume that it is in fact in a book and not on the internet)

So WHY are you on this forum? Didn't you think/know that REH "wrote such interesting stuff" before? Did you "know" that Robert E. Howard wrote "uninteresting stuff" before you joined?

I guess my question is: Did you think that REH wrote "uninteresting stuff" BEFORE I posted a response to your post?

Before I got to this forum, I always thought that Howard never wrote anything but Conan the Barbarian.

He never wrote "Conan the Barbarian".

[PainBrush]

You've got a lot of reading to do Gonzo ! Howard wrote a LOT more than just his 21 Conan tales .

In the Conan stories however , there's a lot of actual real historical cultures on different races hidden between the lines of Howards Hyborian history . Pretty much every imaginary Hyborian age nation and or race had a real life counterpart at some point in real history- but they are very anachronistic & vary from ancient history up to roughly the 16th century all at the same time on one imaginary continent . That's a pretty cool 'language-tree' (?) picture , thanks for posting it .

p.s............

I didn't know he wrote such interesting stuff. Where do I find it? Is it in a book somewhere?

-In 'BOOKS' - plural .
For all of the original Howard Conan stories -try going on the science fiction book clubs site ( sfbc.com ) & get the 3 DelRey Conan books , they have the stories in the order that Howard wrote them ( but they jump around back & forth at different periods of Conans life )'The Coming of Conan' , 'The conquering Sword of Conan' & 'The Bloody Crown of Conan' .

You can also get the 'Bran MakMorn' book with all the stories of that character , the 'Solomon Kane' book with all of his stories , & the 'Kull ; Exile of Atlantis' book from sci-fi books too .

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 30 April 2008 - 10:17 AM.

[Sermon Bath]

there have been blue eyed people all over the east for a long time..........a big, big money maker for the Vikings were selling Saxons, Picts, Britons, Celts, etc to be slaves in the east.......later the muslims just went out and took them themselves until the americans crushed the pirates on the barbary coast

and of course blue eyed people from the russian steppes often wound up slaves in the east as well

[torgospizza]

Somehow I thought it had been public knowlege for decades that Hindu Indians were Caucasians.

I thought so, as well. In fact, it always kind of surprises me when Indians in the UK refer to themselves as Asians. As an American, when I think Asian, I think Mongoloid; however, they are indeed Caucasoids. I have seen things saying these terms aren't even scientifically used any more regarding any race, though. I'm not so sure that's either true or useful to disregard it, because it does help us gain a clearer picture in our minds of how we all migrated to wherever we are, whomever we are.

[Mikey_C]

The word on the tree is "Hindi" which is a language. "Hindu" is a religion. George Harrison was a Hindu (for example), so it is reasonable to assume from that they can be of any race. You can get The Collected Letters of REH vols 1 & 2 (vol 3 is on its way) from the REH Foundation, the link for which is at the top of the page.

[The Great Gonzo]

Iranians, Afghans and East Indians don't look anything like any white man I've ever seen.

[deuce]

Iranians, Afghans and East Indians don't look anything like any white man I've ever seen.

That wasn't REH's opinion.
Of course, you're entitled to yours.

[deuce]

The word on the tree is "Hindi" which is a language. "Hindu" is a religion. George Harrison was a Hindu (for example), so it is reasonable to assume from that they can be of any race. You can get The Collected Letters of REH vols 1 & 2 (vol 3 is on its way) from the REH Foundation, the link for which is at the top of the page.

True dat, Mikey!

[torgospizza]

Iranians, Afghans and East Indians don't look anything like any white man I've ever seen.

http://www.worldsfam...-girl-1984.html

She looks as caucasian as some Americans I know of German ancestry. I'm guessing you just haven't seen enough of those peoples. Check out Preeya Kalidas, who is of Indian descent. It's about skeletal structure and all sorts of things, rather than just pigmentation. Skin or hair color is only one factor, and caucasian covers a lot of ground; moreso than any other race. Mainly because we've mixed with everyone. Black Irish (mainly an American term) being influenced by Spanish blood, f.ex.

EDIT: I need to also add that Caucasian does not equal "white" any more than Asian equals "yellow". I'm sure you've seen Japanese with skin more pale than most whites; compare them to Indonesians or Cambodians.

Edited by torgospizza, 01 May 2008 - 05:29 AM.

[deuce]

Hey Torgo! On the whole, way to go! However, regarding the "Black Irish/Spanish" thing, there's nothing to back it up. "Folk etymology/geneaology". Frikkin' Setanta/CuChullain was black-haired/blue-eyed. Howard saw the Gaels as being naturally dark-haired (that'll be in the "REH and the Irish" thread soon). Milesians comin' from Spain? Yeah. All of that black hair from "historical Spaniards"? No.



Hope that helps.

[torgospizza]

However, regarding the "Black Irish/Spanish" thing, there's nothing to back it up. "Folk etymology/geneaology". Frikkin' Setanta/CuChullain was black-haired/blue-eyed...All of that black hair from "historical Spaniards"? No.

Thanks, Deuce. For some odd reason, I was thinking they matched up Y chromosomes with northern Irish with northern Spaniards. Not sure why I was misremembering that. Maybe when I heard it, it made sense and I just didn't approach it skeptically enough. Happens to the best of us.

Now is the story about the Moors' blood influencing the Spaniards and Italians correct? Because I believe that one, too.

[deuce]

However, regarding the "Black Irish/Spanish" thing, there's nothing to back it up. "Folk etymology/geneaology". Frikkin' Setanta/CuChullain was black-haired/blue-eyed...All of that black hair from "historical Spaniards"? No.

Thanks, Deuce. For some odd reason, I was thinking they matched up Y chromosomes with northern Irish with northern Spaniards. Not sure why I was misremembering that. Maybe when I heard it, it made sense and I just didn't approach it skeptically enough. Happens to the best of us.

Now is the story about the Moors' blood influencing the Spaniards and Italians correct? Because I believe that one, too.

Folk all over the British Isles share a gene-marker with the Basques (whom REH made kin of the Picts). That's NOT the same as the modern general Spanish population.

The "Moors" (Berbers) controlled Sicily AND Spain for a time. However, despite what Tarantino and "Afrocentrists" (no better than "Eurocentrists") say, the vast majority of "Moors" weren't "black". The trade in "black" slaves to North Africa increased greatly with the establishment of Islam. The only "black" "Moorish" dynasty in Spain was the 50yr reign of the Murabitun. Essentially, this dynasty was headed by a Berber clan that had extended its power into the sub-Saharan regions. They had intermarried into the native population, but the coalition as a whole spoke a Berber dialect. Two of the MOST isolated Berber populations (the Kabyles and the Guanches) exhibit(ed) frequent expression of light hair/eyes/skin. Geneticists always distinguish between "North African" and "sub-Saharan" haplogroups.

If you'd like, I can send you scans of various Berber/"Moorish" individuals who don't fit the "Tarantino paradigm".

>>SPOILERS>>

BTW, REH, in The Road of Eagles and Hawks Over Egypt had "ethnic" West Europeans "passing" as Berbers/Moors.