103 replies to this topic

[godcipherdivine]

who is Aryas? Is he the father of the Prince in issue #0?

[thoth-amon]

According to my copy of "The Hyborian Age", it says...

"I do not know whether "aryas" is an individual or an error for "sons of the Aryas." Howard speaks of the Aryans as the people of mixed Vanir, Aesir and Cimmerian decent..."

It goes on for half a page on the historical connections.

[godcipherdivine]

Hyborian age? Is that a novel?

[thoth-amon]

It is an essay REH wrote as a history for his writings.

It is included in several of the older books.

[Zula]

Aryas. Derivative of Aryan, (from Sanskrit, meaning 'noble') name of a war-like group that invaded northern India a looong time ago (1800-1500 BC {That stupid B.C.E. idiocy can throw itself onto my blade})and set themselves up as the rulers. Howard took names from history, Khitai, Hyrkania, Stygia, CImmeria, Hyperborea, Vanaheim, Asgard, it goes on and on. It is (was) his way, I suppose, of lending the stories a semblance of plausability, or perhaps he meant it bridge our time to that one.

[Kane]

Hyborian age?  Is that a novel?

A version of the essay can be found at the following;

http://hyboria.xoth....yborian_age.htm

[Mikey_C]

I've been following some of the discussions about Indo-Europeans, (formerly known as Aryans) in this thread, and it reminded me that I've often wondered about what REH meant by "the sons of Aryas". I've assumed this refers to a racial deity or mythological race-founder, but does anyone have any more precise ideas about this?

[deuce]

Hey Mikey! Great thread idea. This question has intrigued me ever since I read The Phoenix on the Sword long, long ago. Besides just trying to determine who/what "Aryas" was, we can use this thread to discuss Howard's views on the early history and formation of the I-E/"Aryan" peoples (his views regarding his fictional universe AND his "real world" views, since they often intersect). Plenty of stuff to discuss.

[Mikey_C]

Besides just trying to determine who/what "Aryas" was, we can use this thread to discuss Howard's views on the early history and formation of the I-E/"Aryan" peoples (his views regarding his fictional universe AND his "real world" views, since they often intersect). Plenty of stuff to discuss.

Sure thing. Whatever helps shed light on the question!

[Kortoso]

That's an easy one.
The Aryans were the proto-European people who invaded modern Iran. In the early 1900's their linguistic group was confused with race, which is another matter entirely, and the term "Aryan Race" gained currency.

IHMO, "Sons of Aryas" is a matter of Howard "Hyborizing" the Proto-Indo-Europeans in his own unique way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

[Afghan Barbarian]

Aria/Arya refers to Herat, Afghanistan.

Refer to this map:



Aryana was a kingdom in today's Afghanistan and east into Northwestern India, ruled by the fabled King Yama (aka Jamshed). King Yamah was displaced by Zohak, who was defeated by Feridun.

"According to the legendary history, Feridun had three sons. To Selm he gave the West, to Tur the East (henceforward termed Turan); while to his youngest son, Erij [Iraj], he promised the throne of Persia after his own death. This arrangement, not unnaturally, was displeasing to the elder brothers, who threatened to invade Persia to make good their demands. Erij visited his brothers and offered to resign his rights to the throne, hoping by this means to avoid civil war during the last days of his father's reign. Selm and Tur, however, resolved to put Erij to death, and refused to listen to his pathetic pleading for life...Erij was murdered and... his head was embalmed and sent to the aged Feridun, who was unable to avenge the crime. Some years passed and Manuchehr, son of Erij, grew up and "attended by armies and clad in steel", killed both his uncles in single combat." (Source: http://www.artarena....uk/heroic1.htm)

This story of unity among brothers is not uncommon even in local folklore. There is a Afghan traditional story I heard from my uncle when I was younger, and I noticed the same story also being told in a similar fashion by an Iranian friend, as well as a Bulgarian friend..its a story of a mythical king who had a few sons who wanted to divide the empire in many pieces. The King ordered the sons to go out and gather wood. He told them each to take a branch and to break it. Each of the brothers broke the branch with ease. Then he told them to gather more wood, and then he gathered the pieces together into one and then told them to try to break it and no one could. This was a lesson in that in unity the sons can achieve greatness, in disunity, they can easily be destroyed.

Edited by Afghan Barbarian, 08 May 2008 - 08:14 AM.

[Mikey_C]

That's really interesting, AB. I never knew the origin of the word "Aryan". I always just thought of big, blonde Germans.

[Kortoso]

AFAIK, this is the origin of the word "Iran".

[Afghan Barbarian]

Thats correct. And its very common for Afghans to name their kids "Aria/Ariana/Arian" I believe the word means noble or nobility. It is also rumored the Cimmerians were Iranian as well.

[ByTheGods]

Cool to know. Thanks for the info.

[Zula]

That's really interesting, AB. I never knew the origin of the word "Aryan". I always just thought of big, blonde Germans.

lol, that's due to misconception and propoganda spread by an ignorant, short little man who couldn't grow a full moustache.

[Terror From Tartary]

Arianism was a doctrine of early Christianity derived from the teachings of Arius, a deacon in 3rd c. Alexandria. Using reason rather than revelation, he argued that God the Son, being created later, must logically be the inferior to God the Father. His aim, he declared, was to establish a greater unity and simplicity of eternal God. Although condemned of heresy at the Council of Nicaea in 325, his teachings spread and found root among the Germanic tribes, whose own beliefs were more receptive to the idea of "demi-gods". Ulfila, a missionary and adherent of Arianism, had great success among the Visigoths, with whom he remained for some forty years.

Whether Howard was referring to this, or to the Aryan peoples I don't know. Given the spelling, and Howard's predilection for ancient peoples, I'm tending toward the latter. Still, it might be interesting to consider the passage in question as a symbolic movement from one age, the ancient age, to the next.

Edited by Terror From Tartary, 11 May 2008 - 02:09 PM.

[Zula]

Arianism was a doctrine of early Christianity derived from the teachings of Arius, a deacon in 3rd c. Alexandria. Using reason rather than revelation, he argued that God the Son, being created later, must logically be the inferior to God the Father. His aim, he declared, was to establish a greater unity and simplicity of eternal God. Although condemned of heresy at the Council of Nicaea in 325, his teachings spread and found root among the Germanic tribes, whose own beliefs were more receptive to the idea of "demi-gods". Ulfila, a missionary and adherent of Arianism, had great success among the Visigoths, with whom he remained for some forty years.

Whether Howard was referring to this, or to the Aryan peoples I don't know. Given the spelling, and Howard's predilection for ancient peoples, I'm tending toward the latter. Still, it might be interesting to consider the passage in question as a symbolic movement from one age, the ancient age, to the next.

Not the same, just a homophone.

[Mikey_C]

Hey, but we're not prejudiced...

[Pictish Scout]

I was just thinking... "Aryas" is almost certainly the patriarch of the Aryans or a personification of the Aryan race... But what if Aryas is just an "official name" or an "upgraded name" for the unpublished Mitra's priest: ARUS of ?The Hyborian Age? essay?

So the "Sons of Aryas" could be the sons of a character formerly called ?Arus?: The Picts.

The Nemedian Chroniclers may have called them ?Sons of Aryas/Arus? because Nemedians could have blamed Arus for the ?creation? of that Pictish horde that swallowed the western world.

So the Nemedian Chroniclers were eyewitnesses to the Hyborian collapse and they mark its end with the rise of the sons of Aryas/Arus, the priest. And I think the Arus/Picts connection was well known at least by the Hyborian elite during the Pictish invasion.

It is interesting to note that Arus was a Nemedian and the first nation mentioned in the list of kingdoms of ?The Nemedian Chronicles? is Nemedia.

So is it possible for the Chronicle being written in Nemedia after the pictish invasion during the time?when a tribe of AEsir, wandering down from their snowy lands, came into the kingdom, and were engaged as mercenaries? ?

Well, maybe it is just a wild theory though?