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Kull #2 (of 6) On Sale December 03, 2008

#41 User is offline   Officer Aggro Icon

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:35 PM

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 9 2008, 08:07 AM, said:

Officer Aggro -- thank you, also, for the kind words! There are a few twists and turns coming in Issue 3, I really hope you'll like it. I agree with you, the exact "racial type" of the characters isn't the most important thing in the story.


You're welcome! A few twists and turns always make for an interesting story.
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:00 AM

Welcom Arvid.I like the adaption.I can see why some people would argue over the picts depiction.I guess I to am partial to the smith/conrad look.But I do appreciate the different take.Can you tell us why Brase is no longer the cover artist.

#43 User is offline   Fernando Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:14 AM

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 9 2008, 12:58 AM, said:

Howard definitely describes Brule as "dark, like all his race". I've read all the Thuria stories and essays very carefully, and I'm not entirely sure where the certitude about the Caucasian facial features of the Thurian Picts comes from. If someone would like to point it out to me--civilly--I would consider it a favor.


Hi, Arvid Nelson. :)

First of all, I apologize of the expression "filth", used in a former comment I did - and, after this post I'm writing, I'll exclude this word of the post #32. As for the "favor" - thanks for this kind word -, take a look at the quotes I did of four REH's texts at the posts #22 and 27 - those Howard's excerpts show why Picts in Thurian Age had the same European facial features of their Hyborian Age's descendants, as well as Bran Mak Morn's face. Men of the Shadows is also very useful, since this BMM's tale states explicitly that they were ancestors of the Mediterranean people - the same who (both in the real History and in REH's texts) was replaced and expelled by Aryan invasions (though in real history Mediterraneans had mixed with Aryans, but this is another subject ;) ).

As for their "African look", the REH's Picts only became like that in a small part of word, after the The Valley of the Worm's events, centuries after Conan's Age - the place where it happened was very (and wisely) dicussed between Dale Rippke and Deuce, in the thread "The Valley of the Worm" (Dale believes that the mingling between Picts and black people happened in Punt/Keshan, while Deuce believes it happened in Eastern Shem).

Quote

[T]he exact "racial type" of the characters isn't the most important thing in the story.


I respect your opinion, but I disagree. In my point of view, this can create a great confusion in the mind of who never had readed the quotes I've mentioned to you. Some of them - if not more than some ;) - can think: "At last, were Picts black-skinned/brown-haired like Marvel's Brule, apish like in John Buscema's depictions, European-featured as in Kayanan/Tim Conrad/Paul Lee's depictions, or African-looking like in Walt Simonson/Will Conrad's ones?". I don't wanna be repetitive, but Beyond the Black River, Wolves Beyond the Border and The Valley of the Worm have a 100% clear answer! ;)

As for PFunk JAzz's question, in the post #35, I "really haven't read the DH KULL series", and, with all due respect, I don't intend to do it before the Picts are showed with a look 100% faithful to REH, and before "Kull's wife" idea don't be discarded (though I know that my second idea is - or at least it seems - almost impossible). Besides, when I first knew about the DH Kull's series, I was hoping to find adaptations of the Am-ra poems/fragments (or at least parts of them, for a better depiction of Kull's Atlantis), Exile of Atlantis and The Curse of Golden Skull, before The Shadow Kingdom's one...

This post has been edited by Fernando: 10 December 2008 - 02:17 AM


#44 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:31 AM

View Postbrakkk60526, on Dec 9 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

Welcom Arvid.I like the adaption.I can see why some people would argue over the picts depiction.I guess I to am partial to the smith/conrad look.But I do appreciate the different take.Can you tell us why Brase is no longer the cover artist.

Hey, Brakkk--I'm just a hired gun, so I'm not quite sure what happened to Andy! I think it was some kind of a scheduling problem. Sorry I can't be more specific than that...
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#45 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:54 AM

Fernando, thanks for apologizing. Moving on.

None of your quotes in any way invalidate the Dark Horse take on the Thurian age Picts. Wolves Beyond the Border: Conan. Thousands of years *after* the Thurian Picts. My theory is the Picts became "Caucasian-ified" *after* the Thurian cataclysm. Your quote only demonstrates something I've already stated: Hyborian Picts are "Caucasian". Beyond the Black River: also Conan. Valley of the Worm: post-Hyborian. Same thing, both cases. Proves nothing.

One of the things I love about Howard is that he really, truly and deeply grasps the full meaning of the theory of evolution. Evolution isn't a vector. It's completely random. Intelligence isn't an "end point" or a goal, it's just the result of random genetic mutations and environmental pressures. You said the "only time" the Picts became "African" is during the post-Hyborian age, specifically in the story "The Valley of the Worm". First of all, it's not explicitly stated that was the "only" time that happened. But it does establish the idea that groups of people--"races", to use Howard's dated terminology--are actually very fluid, physiologically speaking. Races are always "descending into apedom" and then "crawling back out again" in the Howard essays.

So. Not only is it conceivable the Pict "phenotype" could change radically over the course of tens of thousands of years, it's highly probable. I agree the Picts are "Caucasian" in Conan's time. But it's entirely believable they were not in Kull's time.

Again, I welcome you to find a quote that invalidates that theory. We can agree to disagree about the importance of the Pictish "racial type" to the essence of the Kull stories, but I don't think I or Dark Horse has violated the canon in the first place. If I'm wrong, I will humbly apologize.
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#46 User is offline   Fernando Icon

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Post icon  Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:51 AM

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 10 2008, 03:54 AM, said:

Not only is it conceivable the Pict "phenotype" could change radically over the course of tens of thousands of years, it's highly probable. I agree the Picts are "Caucasian" in Conan's time. But it's entirely believable they were not in Kull's time.


Then take a look at this The Hyborian Age's excerpt:

Quote

The Picts are of the same type as they always were – short, very dark, with black eyes and hair.
;)

This means, IMO, that, despite their involution and re-evolution between Thurian and Hyborian Age, the Picts, few centuries or millenia before Conan's Age, recovered the same Caucasian features they had in Kull's Era. The words "of the same type as they always were" are, IMO, pretty clear. B)

This post has been edited by Fernando: 10 December 2008 - 03:54 AM


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Posted 10 December 2008 - 04:21 AM

View PostFernando, on Dec 9 2008, 09:51 PM, said:

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 10 2008, 03:54 AM, said:

Not only is it conceivable the Pict "phenotype" could change radically over the course of tens of thousands of years, it's highly probable. I agree the Picts are "Caucasian" in Conan's time. But it's entirely believable they were not in Kull's time.


Then take a look at this The Hyborian Age's excerpt:

Quote

The Picts are of the same type as they always were – short, very dark, with black eyes and hair.
;)

This means, IMO, that, despite their involution and re-evolution between Thurian and Hyborian Age, the Picts, few centuries or millenia before Conan's Age, recovered the same Caucasian features they had in Kull's Era. The words "of the same type as they always were" are, IMO, pretty clear. B)


I agree with Fernando. "Of the same type as they always were" seems pretty unambiguous to me. Plus, race is a pretty prominent theme in REH's fiction, for good or bad. If the Thurian Age Picts were distinctly different from his Picts in different epochs, it seems to me REH would have made an effort to specifically point that fact out. The fact that he doesn't specifically refer to them as a "white skinned race" in the Kull stories seems to me like a pretty flimsy justification to take such creative liscense with their racial characteristics.
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#48 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 05:10 AM

I'm familiar with that snippet from The Hyborian Age. If anything, it reinforces my point. Not just dark -- "very dark". One cannot be "Caucasian" and "very dark" at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. That's not really debatable.

So the Picts have always been "very dark", which means they've always been "something other than Caucasian". We know that's not the case, because the Picts of Conan's time are definitely "Caucasian". It's a lack of clarity in the source material.

The interpretation in the Dark Horse comics, therefore, is perfectly valid. Not definitive -- "definitive" is a will ’o the wisp -- but valid. It's not flimsy justification for presumptuous creative license. :)

This post has been edited by Arvid Nelson: 10 December 2008 - 05:13 AM

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#49 User is offline   Axerules Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 06:57 AM

Quote

I've read all the Thuria stories and essays very carefully, and I'm not entirely sure where the certitude about the Caucasian facial features of the Thurian Picts comes from. If someone would like to point it out to me--civilly--I would consider it a favor.
Hey Mr Nelson! I'll try to do that. I hope you won't consider it "uncivil" if I tell you that you haven't caught all the clues included in the source material.

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 10 2008, 05:10 AM, said:

I'm familiar with that snippet from The Hyborian Age. If anything, it reinforces my point. Not just dark -- "very dark". One cannot be "Caucasian" and "very dark" at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. That's not really debatable.
False. In a fantasy story, everything's possible. CONAN was describded several time as "dark". Is someone seriously willing to argue that he could be portrayed like a Bantu Tribesmen?
Ever heard about "Black Irish"?

Quote

So the Picts have always been "very dark", which means they've always been "something other than Caucasian". We know that's not the case, because the Picts of Conan's time are definitely "Caucasian". It's a lack of clarity in the source material.

The interpretation in the Dark Horse comics, therefore, is perfectly valid. Not definitive -- "definitive" is a will ’o the wisp -- but valid. It's not flimsy justification for presumptuous creative license. :)

You wanna know how the Picts of the Thurian Age look like according to REH? I do agree that the depictions in most of the Kull yarns don't help so much (Brule was "lean-hipped", "a massive-chested warrior of middle height, dark, like all his race, and strongly built", with "strong, immobile features")

Something "definitive" can be found in Kings of the Night when Kull sees Bran Mak Morn:
Ha, Brule, Gonar did not tell me I would dream of you!
No, you are not Brule, I see now, though you have his eyes and his bearing. But he is taller and broader in the shoulders.


Brule and Bran ARE of the SAME "racial" type. EXACTLY.



A quick reminder, from Worms of the Earth:

He was dark, but he did not resemble the Latins around him. There was about him none of the warm, almost Oriental sensuality of the Mediterranean which colored their features. The blond barbarians behind Sulla's chair were less unlike the man in facial outline than were the Romans. Not his were the full curving red lips, nor the rich waving locks suggestive of the Greek. Nor was his dark complexion the rich olive of the south; rather it was the bleak darkness of the north. The whole aspect of the man vaguely suggested the shadowed mists, the gloom, the cold and the icy winds of the naked northern lands. Even his black eyes were savagely cold, like black fires burning through fathoms of ice.
His height was only medium but there was something about him which transcended mere physical bulk--a certain fierce innate vitality, comparable only to that of a wolf or a panther. In every line of his supple, compact body, as well as in his coarse straight hair and thin lips, this was evident--in the hawk-like set of the head on the corded neck, in the broad square shoulders, in the deep chest, the lean loins, the narrow feet. Built with the savage economy of a panther, he was an image of dynamic potentialities, pent in with iron self-control.


Hardly "African-looking", don't you think so?

Do you want me to post all the descriptions of the Borni, Mr Nelson, or is it enough?
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:42 AM

Mr. Nelson, thanks for entering into dialog on these matters. I read the first issue of Kull and enjoyed it, but I do have to disagree when you say you are not taking creative license. The issue of the Picts has been addressed by others, and quite well I think. I would like to add that the portayal of the snakemen (and if I am wrong about what those creatures on the cover of issue 4 are I apologize) is in fact at odds with REH - when Kull slays one "...the face suddenly vanished and in its stead gaped and leered a monstrous serpent's head!". I know you aren't the artist, but I am speaking of the DH product as a whole. And the introduction of wives into the tale is purely creative license. While there is nothing saying that it couldn't be possible Kull wasn't married purely for reasons of state, it simply isn't in the original REH story you are currently adapting. I understand you are a talented and acclaimed writer and would look forward to seeing what you can come up with to flesh out all the areas of Kull's life not written of by REH, but I, and others I think, would prefer to see REH' stories as he wrote them.

This post has been edited by Primeval: 10 December 2008 - 08:13 AM

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#51 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:18 PM

View PostAxerules, on Dec 10 2008, 12:57 AM, said:

Hey Mr Nelson! I'll try to do that. I hope you won't consider it "uncivil" if I tell you that you haven't caught all the clues included in the source material.

Not uncivil at all, Axerules. :)

I appreciate your point of view, and I think it's perfectly valid. But it's still not been demonstrated it's the only valid point of view. You mentioned the "dark Irish", the fact that Conan is often described as "dark". Very true! Sometimes "dark" can mean "Caucasian", yes. But sometimes it doesn't.

I think it's important to remember the chronology of the stories. The Shadow Kingdom contains, as far as I know, the very first description of a Pict, and Howard describes Brule as "dark". Just "dark". How do we know Conan is "Caucasian looking"? There are lots of descriptions of him as such. Not so for Brule. It's distinctly possible Brule is a "dark Caucasian", but without Howard explicitly saying so, it's conjecture.

Shadow Kingdom is 1929. Then we have Kings of the Night, 1930, in which Kull mistakes Bran for Brule. We know the Picts are "dark Caucasian" at this time. How could Kull mistake Bran for Brule? Well, as we've discussed at length, there are lots of relatively "dark" Caucasians. Such as the post-Thurian Picts. And by that token, there are lots of "light" Africans. Also, Kull first meets Bran at sunrise, when the light is dim.

Then we have The Hyborian Age. I'm actually not sure when this was written, it wasn't published until after Howard's death. But he says he wrote it as he was starting his Conan stories, so let's clock it at 1932. If anyone has a better date, I'm all ears! In The Hyborian Age, he calls the Picts "very dark". Yes, I maintain "very dark" and "Caucasian" are mutually exclusive. If you disagree, that's fine, but don't think it's worth debating. It's a case of res ipsa loquitur. They're not the "very dark Irish", after all!

The specific descriptions of the "Caucasian" Picts all occur later on, starting, I believe, in 1934. That, it seems to me, is when Howard finally settled on the exact "phenotype" of the Picts. Until then, it was inchoate. Again, I respect the opinions of everyone on this BB! But there's definitely a lack of clarity and consistency in the early texts that lends itself to interpretation.

Axerules said:

Do you want me to post all the descriptions of the Borni, Mr Nelson, or is it enough?


Can you clarify what you mean by "the Borni"? Do you mean Brule's tribe, specifically? Or Picts in general? As I've said, I agree the Picts are "dark Caucasian" by the time of Conan. I guess what I'd need -- and I promise you, I'd be very grateful for the edification! -- is an unambiguous, unequivocal passage from a Howard text that definitively states Thurian Picts are "Caucasian".

It's very interesting having these discussions! I look forward to your reply. :)
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#52 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:47 PM

View PostPrimeval, on Dec 10 2008, 01:42 AM, said:

Mr. Nelson, thanks for entering into dialog on these matters. I read the first issue of Kull and enjoyed it, but I do have to disagree when you say you are not taking creative license. The issue of the Picts has been addressed by others, and quite well I think. I would like to add that the portayal of the snakemen (and if I am wrong about what those creatures on the cover of issue 4 are I apologize) is in fact at odds with REH - when Kull slays one "...the face suddenly vanished and in its stead gaped and leered a monstrous serpent's head!". I know you aren't the artist, but I am speaking of the DH product as a whole. And the introduction of wives into the tale is purely creative license. While there is nothing saying that it couldn't be possible Kull wasn't married purely for reasons of state, it simply isn't in the original REH story you are currently adapting. I understand you are a talented and acclaimed writer and would look forward to seeing what you can come up with to flesh out all the areas of Kull's life not written of by REH, but I, and others I think, would prefer to see REH' stories as he wrote them.

Oh, geez, my apologies! I/we/Dark Horse are *definitely* taking creative liberties with the source material! I really didn't mean to imply we weren't, and I'm sorry you got that impression! :)

I just meant to say the "African type" for the Thurian Picts is within the bounds of the original text. I fully admit it's unorthodox, but I really think it's valid. It's funny, because when I imagine Brule, I imagine him looking more "Caucasian", too. I gave Will some latitude in the script when it came to the Picts, even if that meant going in a direction divergent from my own. Comics are, after all, a collaborative effort. But I'll gladly go down with the ship. :)

Aside from that, we will definitely be making departures. I feel like we have to. There aren't really any interesting female characters in the Kull stories; they're all wallflowers desperately seeking husbands. Delacardes is by far the most interesting, but... what motivates her?

I realize the idea of "changing" Howard is sacrilege to some, but I view the source material as a very large, very beautiful, but very rough diamond in need of some polishing and cutting. If someone wants the original stories, they can read the original stories. But part of adapting something is making creative decisions. If you're an absolute purist and don't think that's right, then you're really going to hate my Kull. Don't bother with it!

But, if you'll put your trust in me for just a little while longer, I think you'll see that all the changes are in the name of bringing Kull's character fully to life. Telling a story the way Howard would have, if he were alive today. We're not doing what John Milius did in Conan the Barbarian, and we're certainly not doing what was done in that awful Kevin Sorbo Kull. We're always, always trying to be faithful to the spirit of the source material, if not the letter. And, as Paul said, "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life".

A lot of this, specifically with regard to Kull's attitude towards women, will become clearer in Issue 3. One of the downsides of writing comics the way I do--El Borak's Little Brother mentioned this--is that I just can't get everything on the table in a single issue. So all I can ask is that you have some faith, for just a little longer! We're all doing our best to live up to expectations. :)
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#53 User is offline   amsterdamaged Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:44 PM

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 10 2008, 08:47 AM, said:

I realize the idea of "changing" Howard is sacrilege to some, but I view the source material as a very large, very beautiful, but very rough diamond in need of some polishing and cutting. If someone wants the original stories, they can read the original stories.


All I can say is, the thing I love about the DK Conan comic is that they don't take creative liberties with the source material. The depict the REH stories exactly as they were written. That's what I've come to expect from DK's treatment of REH material.

Quote

But part of adapting something is making creative decisions. If you're an absolute purist and don't think that's right, then you're really going to hate my Kull. Don't bother with it!


Ok, you've convinced me. :) I believe in voting with my wallet, and based on what I've heard, I'll be skipping on the Kull title. Best of luck with it.
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--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 05:01 PM

Well, that was an interesting, highly-comical. discussion of a pseudo-history. I don't see how the racial depiction of Brule affects the story. It's still a very strong read, IMO. I was rather pleased with the departure taken. I'd still recommend it to even the most adamant Howard fan, but we'll see how things shape up next issue.

However, I must admit the offering up a wife for Kull is be a major concern. I never liked Howard casting him as chaste (buddy pairings hint at a latent homosexuality), but it marks a major distinction from Conan's aggressively lustful ways. I would admonish Mr. Nelson from pursuing a "Kull takes a bride" story arc; that wouyld cause a major freak-out. LOL.

Ironically, I remember being on the "other side" when the casting for the Fantastic Four film did not make Sue and Johnny Storm perfect California blondes. As much as I think Jessica Alba is s total hottie, her casting was just totally wrong. Her acting was stiff and unbelievable and the liberties taken with characterizations, dramatic motivations and dialogue ruined the whole film.

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

I like being creative with the adaptions because these stories have all been done before by marvel.But I can see the purest point of view all so.But the current comic is well done not silly,and thats what matters to me.I am not crazy about the current artist on Conan[Corben aside I have waited for improvement long enough]. but is it bad enough not to spend 3.00 bucks? No. Average Howard is better than no Howard.And over all DK is better than average.

This post has been edited by brakkk60526: 10 December 2008 - 05:19 PM


#56 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 06:44 PM

View PostPFunkJAzz, on Dec 10 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

I would admonish Mr. Nelson from pursuing a "Kull takes a bride" story arc; that wouyld cause a major freak-out. LOL.

Ironically, I remember being on the "other side" when the casting for the Fantastic Four film did not make Sue and Johnny Storm perfect California blondes. As much as I think Jessica Alba is s total hottie, her casting was just totally wrong. Her acting was stiff and unbelievable and the liberties taken with characterizations, dramatic motivations and dialogue ruined the whole film.

First of all, feel free to call me "Arvid" if you want to. And oh my dear sweet Lord, I couldn't agree more about Jessica Alba as Sue Richards!

Regarding "Kull takes a bride": trust-a me! We've got some twists and turns coming! Trust-a me! I completely, totally understand an essential part of Kull's nature is his discomfort with women. Take away that, and it's not Kull anymore. I personally don't think Kull is gay--I can tell you right now that's NOT where we're going. I totally see where you're coming from, but that's not where the comic is going. :)
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#57 User is offline   Primeval Icon

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:15 AM

Quote

There aren't really any interesting female characters in the Kull stories; they're all wallflowers desperately seeking husbands. Delacardes is by far the most interesting, but... what motivates her?


So? Who cares. Work on that in the areas that you create as original text.

Quote

I realize the idea of "changing" Howard is sacrilege to some, but I view the source material as a very large, very beautiful, but very rough diamond in need of some polishing and cutting. If someone wants the original stories, they can read the original stories. But part of adapting something is making creative decisions.


Wrong. You are presenting the story in a different meduim - you do not NEED to make any changes. You may have to omit text, etc. but you do not have to make "creative decisions". Leave your creative ego out of it - you are working with another man's intellectual property not your own. Write your own characters if you can't accept that. And there is no need to put "change" in quotes like that - you ARE blatantly changing it, it is not just our perception.
I tried to present a purely objective post, and your response to it was one of juvenile sarcasm. You keep asking for quotes and examples to prove the viewpoints that counter yours but you pay no attention to them when presented with them. This conversation will serve no purpose in that light, so...

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But part of adapting something is making creative decisions. If you're an absolute purist and don't think that's right, then you're really going to hate my Kull. Don't bother with it!


That's the only thing I can do. Dark Horse will never see another cent from me.
“ Roll on me like a flood, now, if ye dare! Before your viper fangs drink my life I will reap your multitudes like ripened barley - of your severed heads will I build a tower and of your mangled corpses will I rear up a wall!.” - Bran Mak Morn in "Worms of the Earth"

#58 User is offline   Strom Icon

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:35 AM

View PostArvid Nelson, on Dec 10 2008, 08:47 AM, said:

I realize the idea of "changing" Howard is sacrilege to some, but I view the source material as a very large, very beautiful, but very rough diamond in need of some polishing and cutting. If someone wants the original stories, they can read the original stories. But part of adapting something is making creative decisions. If you're an absolute purist and don't think that's right, then you're really going to hate my Kull. Don't bother with it!

But, if you'll put your trust in me for just a little while longer, I think you'll see that all the changes are in the name of bringing Kull's character fully to life. Telling a story the way Howard would have, if he were alive today. We're not doing what John Milius did in Conan the Barbarian, and we're certainly not doing what was done in that awful Kevin Sorbo Kull. We're always, always trying to be faithful to the spirit of the source material, if not the letter. And, as Paul said, "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life".

A lot of this, specifically with regard to Kull's attitude towards women, will become clearer in Issue 3. One of the downsides of writing comics the way I do--El Borak's Little Brother mentioned this--is that I just can't get everything on the table in a single issue. So all I can ask is that you have some faith, for just a little longer! We're all doing our best to live up to expectations. :)



Welcome to the forum Arvid - you can see the passion for Robert E. Howard's characters has no limit on the Official REH Forums. Thanks for taking time out to stop by and interact with us fans and non-fans alike. We really appreciate it!

I'm surprised so much of the conversations - and declarations - are about a part of the story that hasn't even been published yet. I'll read your story and see where you go with the Shadow Kingdom adaptation and then let you know how the story holds up. Personally, I'm really enjoying your writing and Will's art very much. I agree with your above statement because it is the truth - no artist or writer who creates anything would say any less. This is an Arvid Nelson adaptation of REH's Shadow Kingdom and your admitting what is a natural part of any creative process - your creative input. Surely, the early Weird Tales covers of a spanish type Conan are not what the text implies, yet I remember Howard - although not completely happy - said it was close enough (something like that). Maybe we should all remember Bob's attitude when we dissect every line from every Howard story, looking for the definitive answer. Sometimes close enough - like Bob said - is good enough.

Looking forward to issue number 3. B)
"Fool!" roared Kirowan. "Do you think he could take the souls of innocence? That he would not know they were beyond his reach? The girl and the youth he could kill; their souls were not his to take or yours to give. But your black soul is not beyond his reach, and he will have his wage. Look! He is materializing behind you! He is growing out of thin air!"

------------The Haunter of the Ring - Robert E. Howard --------------

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:42 AM

Well said Primeval. I've been mulling over this quote all day...

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I realize the idea of "changing" Howard is sacrilege to some, but I view the source material as a very large, very beautiful, but very rough diamond in need of some polishing and cutting.


This quote reminds me of one person: L. Sprague deCamp....just another writer or critic who approaches REH with an air of superiority. "REH's fiction isn't fine on its own. Its rough around the edges. It needs 'fixing'. The fans are truly lucky that I came along to improve it for them."
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Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

#60 User is offline   Arvid Nelson Icon

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 04:13 AM

View PostStrom, on Dec 10 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

Welcome to the forum Arvid - you can see the passion for Robert E. Howard's characters has no limit on the Official REH Forums. Thanks for taking time out to stop by and interact with us fans and non-fans alike. We really appreciate it!

I'm surprised so much of the conversations - and declarations - are about a part of the story that hasn't even been published yet. I'll read your story and see where you go with the Shadow Kingdom adaptation and then let you know how the story holds up. Personally, I'm really enjoying your writing and Will's art very much. I agree with your above statement because it is the truth - no artist or writer who creates anything would say any less. This is an Arvid Nelson adaptation of REH's Shadow Kingdom and your admitting what is a natural part of any creative process - your creative input. Surely, the early Weird Tales covers of a spanish type Conan are not what the text implies, yet I remember Howard - although not completely happy - said it was close enough (something like that). Maybe we should all remember Bob's attitude when we dissect every line from every Howard story, looking for the definitive answer. Sometimes close enough - like Bob said - is good enough.

Looking forward to issue number 3. B)

Thanks much, Strom! I appreciate your kind words, and I'm glad you're liking the story so far. Hopefully the next few issues won't disappoint. I look forward to hearing what you think. :)
rvid -- writer, Rex Mundi, Zero Killer, and Kull!
www.rexmundi.net
www.zerokiller.com

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