29 replies to this topic

[Xaltotun]

Does anyone here do mass combat in the Hyborian Age, either with RPG-based mass combat rules or traditional wargaming rulesets?

Examples of the former would be Cry Havoc, or Fields of Blood. Examples of the latter would be the recently-released Fields of Glory (FoG) or the older Wargames Research Group's (WRG) Ancients rules (e.g. 3000 BC to 1485 AD).

Have you tried table-top gaming or computer-based?

IME, wargaming groups are strictly history-only and scoff heartily at any fantasy-oriented gaming, which is disappointing.

Related directly to the Conan RPG, I found Mongoose Publishing's attempt at a mass combat supplement to their Free Companies book decidedly anemic and unsatisfying.

Let me know what your collective thoughts are on the subject, if any.

[I would post this on theminiaturespage.com but only paying members can begin threads. ]

[Bori]

I use HoTT (Hordes of The Things) for Mass Combat.
The rule book has numerous Army List & there
is a Hyborian one.

I made my own greatly expanded one(HoTT makes that
easy) & also did one for Archeron.

I use it with 2 Campaigns

Dawn of The Hyborian Age-Archeron vs Hybori Tribes

Royal Hyborian Age-Conan Period ( Capt of Mercenaries period)
It covers the basic Western Hyborian World & have Expansions
for The Far North/Black Nations/Khati & neighbors.

Dawn of The Hyborian Age-uses WarMaster 10mm figs
Royal Hyborian Age-uses a Baccus 6mm figs from the Ancient & Middle Ages ranges.

Bori

Edited by Bori, 22 September 2008 - 12:55 AM.

[Xaltotun]

Welcome to the forum, Bori!
I've only heard about HOTT on theminiaturespage.com, but have never seen it first-hand. How would you rate HOTT for playability? Are the rules fairly easy on the brain or are they relatively complex?

[Primeval]

There is the old Royal Armies of the Hyborian Age ruleset, someone publishes it still, I just can't recall who at the moment. Ral Partha even made unofficial miniatures for it back in the late '70s.

Nexus, the people doing the AOC boardgame, announced plans for a miniatures skirmish level game that was supposed to be out in late 2008, but I haven't heard anything since the initial announcement.

[Xaltotun]

I just now found THIS wargaming rulebook. If anyone ever gets a chance to read it please offer a review!

[Bori]

Welcome to the forum, Bori!
I've only heard about HOTT on theminiaturespage.com, but have never seen it first-hand. How would you rate HOTT for playability? Are the rules fairly easy on the brain or are they relatively complex?

HoTT 2nd Edition is about $20 & has a 80 page rule book.The rules take
up 30 pages several more are devoted to Campaign rules & the last 13 pages are diagrams
that serve as a faq.The middle of the rule book is an extensive Army Lists.

HoTT also has rules that just let you design your own armies.Heres a link
that gets you to the stronghold which should give a good over of the HoTT System,

http://www.btinterne...ames/strong.htm

The neat thing is you can use any figs from 2mm-54mm.
The rules are easy to pick up,they seem simple but have a lot of depth,
magic is available but its not a game breaker.

Bori

[Bori]

Forgive the double post but I thought an example of the HoTT mass combat
system might be helpful to the Topic.

Heres a Battle Report from our Dawn of The Hyborian Age Campaign:

Years of The Wolf:Year 2 Spring

Location:Northern March-Eastern Acheron Empire
Type of Battle:Field
Terrain:4 Quarters each 1'x1'
NE Quarter-North Edge Hills(2 steep & 1 gentle)N.board edge
NW Quarter-Slave Rver-N edge running S.to Layoda Swamp
at Center.Fort Philx NW edge(Armed Camp)
SE Quarter-The Rise(gentle hilly area)NE edge .Fort Sark
NW edge(Armed Camp).Serpent River running
west to Lake of The Northern Serpent at center.
Hielx-walled village & Keep S.edge 400 paces
from SW edge.Acheron's Stronghold.
SW Quarter-grassy plains
(Terrain pieces are 4"x4"except the Forts(3"x3"),Hielx
(2"x2")& the rivers 1 1/2" wide.Where no terrain feature
is given its assumed to be grassy plains).All of the named
Terrain Features are considered "Bad Going"except gentle
Hills,and the Lake (which is impassible)The steep Hills
have both of their eastern edges running N to S as
impassible.

Hybori Forces:24AP Total
Amrth-General with Housecarls=2AP
Horsecarls(Riders) =2AP
Wolf Brothers(Hordes)3 units =3AP
Vainar's Band =2AP(Warband)
Bragi's Band =2AP "
Aseir's Band =2AP "
Hymer's Band =2AP "
Swen's Band =2AP "
Norsic(cleric with Wolf guard) =3AP
Gunnarson's Fyrd(Hero) = 4AP

Acheron's Forces:24AP Total*
Ixion-General with the 1st Imperial phalanx(spears)=2AP
("Glory of Set")
2nd Imperial Phalanx(spears) =2AP
3rd Imperial Phalanx(spears)("Scales of Purple") =2AP
4th Imperial Phalanx(spears) =2AP
5th Imperial Phalanx(spears) =2AP
Hydra & BeastMaster (Behemoth) =4AP
1st Imperial Horse =2AP
2nd Imperial Horse ("Death's Own") =2AP
3rd Imperial Horse =2AP
1st Cohort Imperial Archers(CB) =2AP
2nd Cohort Imperial Archers(CB)("Fangs of Set") =2AP
Acheron Stronghold =Heliex
* Acheron's Army has existed for some 2000 years
by the time of the Hybori Invasions.A Regiment
that has preformed some great act of valor in battle
is awarded a "Title"based on its exploits.Gamewise
its fluff.

Objectives:

Hybori-Crush the Acheron Army & take Heliex to control
the North March.Which they need as a jumping off
point to move South into the Empires heart lands.

Acheron-Destroy of push back the Hybori Forces to retain
control of its Northern Provience & deny Hybori
a foothold into the Empire.

Army posture-Hybori=prepared attack*
Army posture-Acheron=prepared defense*

Weather:Good no restrictions


*We are using a HoTT Army posture varient so
we rolled up that Acheron (having made no stragetic move
prior to Battle )gets to conduct a "prepared defense"Hybori
(which will made 1 stragetic move prior to Battle,but
lucked out on the die roll)gets to conduct a prepared attack.
Prepared forces are allowed to pull out forces to use as
flank attackers or ambushers but we have decided not
to use those options for our 1st game to keep things simple.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Battle for the Northern March

Deployment:
Hybori :Right Wing Hero(Gunnarson Fyrd),Horsecarls,column of 3 Warbands,
another column of 3 Warbands(2nd is Amrth & the Housecarls)Swamp.
Left flank Column of 2(Wolf Brother Horde,& Norcia & Wolf Guard)
another column of 2(both Wolf Brothers Horde)





Acheron:Solid line:Crossbow(Fangs of Set),3rd Imp. Phalanx,
4th Imp.Phalanx,Hydra/Beast Master,5th Imp.Phalanx,3rd Imp.
Horse,Death's Own Horse,1st Imp/horse.
2nd Line Support Phalanxes(behind 3d Imp phalanx ,the 2nd Imp.Phalanx,
behind the 4th Imp.phalanx,the Glory of Set-Gen.Ixon)



The First Hour

Acheron moves its 3 mounted units forward to cut off
the Hybori left flank deployed on the left flank of the Laydoa
Swamp,hoping to prevent the Hybori Army from uniting.
The rest of the Army moves forward to cut off the Hybori
right flank.

Hybori move its two flanks forward to get clear of the swamp
& unite the army.

Acheron moves its 3 mounted units into contact with the
Hybori left flank.The rest of the Army continues to move
forward.The 1st Imperial Horse charges into one of the
Wolf Brothers Hordes & is repulsed & falls back with losses.
Death's Own Horse slams into another Wolf Brother Horde
with support from the 3rd Imperial horse.The Horde collapses
as a fighting unit (removed from the board).

Hybori move Norsic & the Wolf Guard up into contact with
Death's Own.The right flank of the Army continues to move
forward with the Warband Columns ,Gunnarson Fyrd & the Housecarls
stay in place to match the flank of the advancing
Warbands.The attack by Norsic & his Wolf Guard on Death own
both sides being supported by the Wolf Brothers Horde & 3rd
Imperial Horse is inconlusive..the troops remain locked in combat.
Meanwhile the Wolf Brother Horde scattered by the Death's Own has reformed
behind the Hybori Right flank.

The Bloody 2nd Hour-Time to Die!

The Acheron 1st Imperal Horse moves back into contact
with the Wolf Brother troop that had previously repulsed it.
The rest of the Army holds position as the Right Acheron Flank
erupts in combat.Death's Own Horse renews its combat with
the Wolf Guard supported by the 3rd Imperial Horse.The
fierce Wolf Guard under Norsic humble Death Own & drive
the horse troop back with loss.The 1st Imperial Horse
weakend from its previous combat is now left unsupported
by the withdraw of Deaths Own & is destroyed by the attacking
Wolf Brother Horde.

The Hybori sensing the battle is at a critical point,pushes its
two Columns led by Bragi Band & Vainar's War Bands into
the Acheron Line.The Horsecarls wheel & hit the 4th Imperial Phalanx ,
Its Left flank is still blocked by the Acheron Cavalry & stays in place..
The battle is now joined on its right Flank.Bragi's Band supported by Armth
& the Housecarls carry the fight to the the 5th Imperial Phalanx which forces
them back with losses.Vaniar's Band smashes into the Hydra with Aseirs Band
in support & the Great Beast destroys them & moves forward into the Hybori Line.
The Horsecarls with both its flanks compromised is decimated by the 4th Imperial Phalanx.

Ixion now goes for broke sending up the 4th Imperial Phalanx
supported by his own unit The Glory of Set.The 5th Imperial Phalanx is sent forward
with the 1st Cohort of Archers as support against Bragi War Band and
Armth & his Housecarls in support,now flanked by the Hydra.The Hybori die in the iron
vice of Ixon forces.Armth is slaughtered beneith the Hydra
& the battle is lost.The Hybori flee the battlefield.

Acheron has won the North!!

Years of the Wolf: 2 Summer -Autum

Campaign Events

Acheron Eastern Army under Ixion set about restablishing
full control of The Northern March

Acheron Western Army under Kroton remain encamped
in The Dagon Provience.

Hybori Forces limp back to their Homeland & bury Armth
& then set about haggling over his replacement.Finally
Balen is proclaimed Paramont Chief.

(note as Archeron by winning the Spring Battle & is now the Attacker but has cleared
its Empires Regions of the Hybori and can't attack the Hybori Homeland
no further military operations can be taken this Year.)

Bori

[Aesir-Jarl]

I've been planning on starting up a Conan/Hyborian wargame, and have been amassing my miniatures. There are a lot of fantasy and historical ranges that fit in quite nicely for the Hyborian age.

I recently started blogging about it here: http://atomkid.blogspot.com/

Right now I've accumulated a lot of Viking miniatures, which I'm going to use as Aesir/Vanir warriors. I plan on using some Dark Age Irish/Picts for Cimmerians and Numidians (with a lot of conversions) as Shemites.

If anyone has any other ideas for any other historicals that would fit in, I'd love to hear your ideas!

[deuce]

I've been planning on starting up a Conan/Hyborian wargame, and have been amassing my miniatures. There are a lot of fantasy and historical ranges that fit in quite nicely for the Hyborian age.

I recently started blogging about it here: http://atomkid.blogspot.com/

Right now I've accumulated a lot of Viking miniatures, which I'm going to use as Aesir/Vanir warriors. I plan on using some Dark Age Irish/Picts for Cimmerians and Numidians (with a lot of conversions) as Shemites.

If anyone has any other ideas for any other historicals that would fit in, I'd love to hear your ideas!

Welcome to the forum, Jarl! Cool blog. I see you've got my buddy Brian Murphy's The Silver Key linked on there.

Nice work on your miniatures. Just remember that all Cimmerians are black-haired, according to REH.

As for your list of correspondences...

1. Aquilonia - Late Roman

There's nothing in Howard's yarns to indicate that the Aquilonian military was even vaguely "Romanesque".

You might want to check out this thread:
http://www.conan.com...h...9&hl=romans
and this: http://www.conan.com...mp;hl=aquilonia

2. Stygia - New Kingdom Egyptian
3. Shem - Assyrian
4. Hyrkania - Mongols
5. Vanaheim and Asgard - Viking
6. Cimmerian - Celtic
7. Vendhya - Indian

All of these are cool, IMO.

8. Picts - Aztec or Native American

Good enough.

9. Corinthia - Ancient Greek or Macedonian
10. Argos - Early Roman

Corinthia's good enough, though REH never specifically stated anything "Grecian" about them at all. Make sure that the majority of the troops from ANY "ethnically" Hyborian nation are cavalry. REH said so. Argos seems to have many more links to medieval/Renaissance Venice, Genoa and Pisa than it does to "early Roman". Until the Punic Wars, Romans were barely sailors at all.

11. Zembabwei, Kush, Punt - Zulu or Lost Tribes of Africa

Fine.
12. Zamora, Iranistan- Bedouin

REH seems to have looked upon the Zamorians as some sort of "Gypsy/Mexican" cross. The Zamorians tended to use a lot of ethnically Hyborian mercs.
Using some sort of Persians for Iranistan would work best.
13. Turan - Ottoman Empire
14. Khitai - Han Chinese

Right on!

15. Meru - Tibetan
16. Zingara - Franks or Saxons

Meru never existed in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age world.
Zingara, judging from the clothing, etc... cited in the yarns, would be best portrayed by using Spanish "Reconquista" figures, IMO. Saxons would be good for Gundermen.

Where's Koth?!? A very powerful Hyborian nation. Check out this thread:

http://www.conan.com...h...171&hl=koth

Also, check out all the work Al "Taranaich" Harron has done here:

http://forums.totalw...splay.php?f=231

Hope that helps.

[Aesir-Jarl]

Thanks for the reply, Deuce!

Aquilonia has been something I've been wrestling with for a while. The big thing that made me think of Romans was the name of kingdom itself (Aquilonia=Aquila) that and some of the latin names. But this in no way means that's what Howard meant, it's just my interpretation. I'd like to stick mainly with Ancient to Dark Ages miniatures, for me using medieval and renaissance would be way too anachronistic (even though ancient-dark ages is too) for my tastes. But I'll definitely take your suggestions into account.

I've been following Brian Muphy's blog for a while, and have gotten to know him through posts and replies. He definitely has a wealth of information for anything R.E.H., Arthurian, or Tolkien. It's a great blog!

Thanks again for your views, it gives me something to think about.

What do you think of using Masai warriors as either Zembabwei or Punt troops?

[Kortoso]

Aquilonia is solidly high middle ages, regardless of what the name inspires.

I would not call Picts of the Hyborian Age analogous to Aztecs. The Aztecs were civlized.

[deuce]

Thanks for the reply, Deuce!

Aquilonia has been something I've been wrestling with for a while. The big thing that made me think of Romans was the name of kingdom itself (Aquilonia=Aquila) that and some of the latin names. But this in no way means that's what Howard meant, it's just my interpretation. I'd like to stick mainly with Ancient to Dark Ages miniatures, for me using medieval and renaissance would be way too anachronistic (even though ancient-dark ages is too) for my tastes. But I'll definitely take your suggestions into account.

According to Patrice Louinet (and I agree, with reservations), REH derived "Aquilonia" from "Aquilon", the Latin name for the North Wind. Are you going to make your Hyperboreans Greeks? Your Nemedians Bronze Age Irish?
Howard strung "Latinate" names from the Westermarck to Khoraja. Are ALL of those nations then "Roman"?
How are you going to put together your Aquilonian army? REH portrayed it as mostly plate/mail-armoured cavalry with lances. Other than that, some longbowmen and Lowland Scots-style pikemen. Where are you going to find "Roman" miniatures to match the requirements?

Just wondering.

I've been following Brian Muphy's blog for a while, and have gotten to know him through posts and replies. He definitely has a wealth of information for anything R.E.H., Arthurian, or Tolkien. It's a great blog!

He's a great guy. We blog together over on the Cimmerian site.

Thanks again for your views, it gives me something to think about.

What do you think of using Masai warriors as either Zembabwei or Punt troops?

Punt seems to be more of an Axum/Abyssinia-type setting. Zembabwei would be better, IMO.

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

Aquilonia is solidly high middle ages, regardless of what the name inspires.

I like the roman look. I imagine them as romans when i read the books.

Actually, i don?t think that anything in the Hyborian age is based on the middle age. In my opinion, the whole place have a strong "Ancient world" feeling.

8. Picts - Aztec or Native American

No way! The picts are only... picts. Wild and dangerous pict warriors (and not black at all!).

Edited by Evil Thoth-Amon, 16 July 2009 - 09:34 PM.

[deuce]

Aquilonia is solidly high middle ages, regardless of what the name inspires.

I would not call Picts of the Hyborian Age analogous to Aztecs. The Aztecs were civlized.

Damn straight, Kortoso. Got in a hurry there.

[Aesir-Jarl]

Aquilonia is solidly high middle ages, regardless of what the name inspires.

I like the roman look. I imagine them as romans when i read the books.

Actually, i don?t think that anything in the Hyborian age is based on the middle age. In my opinion, the whole place have a strong "Ancient world" feeling.

8. Picts - Aztec or Native American

No way! The picts are only... picts. Wild and dangerous pict warriors (and not black at all!).

Yeah, finding the right model for the Picts is going to be a hard one. Aztecs might be too ornate, but I wonder if the Jaquar warriors would fit in with the whole totemic tribe thing that the Picts had.

Ral Partha used to make some minis that looked similar to native americans, only with some medieval weapons. I've bought a few but I'm still looking for more. Games workshop made some Woses for LOTR, but I'm not sure on those yet.

Then there's Vendel miniatures. They did some generic fantasy figures that might work for Aquilonians http://vendelminiatu...products_id=219. Who know's? Just bouncing ideas off of people. Thanks.

[Ironhand]

It is quite plain from REH's stories, especially Scarlet Citadel and Hour of the Dragon, that Aquilonia and other Hyborian nations had a heavy cavalry that was clearly similar to our high middle ages. Bossonian archers could be represented by English longbowmen. Gunderman could be represented by medieval pikemen and/or halbardiers, or, by Greek hoplites. Koth could be represented by Byzantine cataphracts.

What about representing Picts by African warriors painted light brown or bronze. That would make them quite distinct from Ku$h1te figures pained brown-black. Aztec figures would be wrong for Picts, but might represent breakaway Stygian former colonies, or Xuchotl.

Edited by Ironhand, 17 July 2009 - 08:24 AM.

[awesomeshotdude]

Great idea, Aesir-Jarl ! Mongoose Publishing were going to do this very thing a couple of years ago but unfortunately it never got off the ground.

What scale are you going to use ? From your blog I'm assuming 28mm ?

I think Warhammer Ancients would be a good rule set to go with. I have played a couple of games with it and it works pretty well.

What about Nemedians ? They are a pretty powerful country and posed a great threat to Aquilonia during Conan's reign !

For the Picts you could try some of these ?Cavemen?. I don't ever remember REH describing Picts with or without beards (I always pictured them without for some reason, don't know why), someone else may be able to enlighten you on that, but even if they did (or didn?t) you could perhaps just use the mini's that suit. Picts use bows and hand axes quite extensively as well as the knives and spears you see on these mini's. So you may have to modify some mini's to represent that, or else mix some similar looking mini's from another range that do have bows and hand axes. In this range, only one mini has a bow which, if you bought a large swath of these mini's to represent the Picts, bows would be under-represented by duplicates of that single mini.......I think perhaps that it would not be unreasonable to assume that most (if not all) Picts would carry a bow into combat.....Oh, and REH did mention that the Picts, very occassionally, did trade with ships from the South, so you could lose the stone edge weapons and replace them with metals (or just file them so they are more smooth rather than chipped to an edge like stone).

There is even a good mini for each a Shaman and Tribal Chief.





This same guy also sells several other primitive warriors, check out his "Darkest Africa" range and his "High Adventure" range. There are a great many with bows that would look good as Picts as well, like these for example;



Anyway, here's his site;

http://www.copplesto...ge.php?range=CC

Wargames Factory are just starting to pump out some very nice plastic 28mm Ancients. They don't have a big range right now but they are quickly increasing their size, someone to keep an eye on if you prefer plastics to metals......

http://wargamesfactory.com/Home.htm

I'm very interested in seeing how your project develops, I'll be watching your blog.

Edited by awesomeshotdude, 17 July 2009 - 12:11 PM.

[Aesir-Jarl]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!

Awesomeshotdude, Whatever happened to the Mongoose Conan miniatures game? I read about it for years and then it just kind of disappeared.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with 28mm, just because there's more a diverse selection of miniatures. I've checked out these cavemen by both copplestone and foundry and think they're great! I think I remember reading that the picts had no facial hair, but I could be wrong. Maybe Maori miniatures would fit in, I don't know.

I like Wargames Factory a lot! They're cheap, and easy to convert. I've got a some celt chariots and cavalry. I think some of them fit in with the cimmerians but I think I need different shields, just so they don't look too much like ancient celts.

As far aquilonians, I'm not sure what I'll use. I might just have to convert some medieval minis, or find some fantasy figures that fit in with that. I just know I don't want to use historical medievals because they're too identifiable with historical Europe. I want something more exotic. I'll come up with something.

[Kortoso]

I think that one of the tales suggest that Hyborian helmets had crests as a regular thing.

[Primeval]

Foundry, although a bit expensive, make some great Viking miniatures for Aesir and Vanir:

http://www.wargamesf...s/VIK/index.asp

They also do some pretty neat stuff that could be used for any of the Black Kingdoms:

http://www.wargamesf...ns/DA/index.asp

Actually, take a look around the site - they have other ancients ranges too that could work for you.