49 replies to this topic

[deuce]

Hey Kortoso! But what about the many similarities betwixt Ymir and Odin in Howard's tales? Both gods seem to love a tasty, fresh human heart (as do some of their worshippers, according to Howard). Both are the shown to be the primary gods of the "Nordics" of their time period. Both encourage their worshippers to engage in wholesale slaughter whenever possible. REH seems to associate both gods with "icy cold" and the "outer gulfs". The clincher, to me, is in The Cairn on the Headland (written right before "Phoenix") where Howard implies that Odin had been on this world for eons. I can't see how Odin and Ymir aren't one and the same. So, I guess I'd have to say Ymir's "symbol" would probably be a single (three-lobed and burning? ) eye. Hope that helps.

[PainBrush]

I can't help but think his symbol would maybe be the Yggdrasil ,tho that does imply more of a relatoin to Odin than should be implied -it connects all the worlds of man , giants & gods . Or maybe even the Ouroborous vyrm (jormungandr). Ymir was the father of the frost rime giants not the gods , so I don't think there's any reason to equate him with the alldada Odin , he has a definite parallel in real historical Nordic mythology & religion very distinctly seperate from that .

Edited by PAINBRUSH, 14 August 2007 - 04:38 PM.

[deuce]

We all (hopefully) know that REH was a fan of Rudyard Kipling. I am too. In the process of giving my niece The Jungle Book as a birthday present, I noticed this line from the "Night Song in the Jungle" poem:

Now Chil the Kite brings home the night..."

The kite is a predatory bird of the Milvinae and Elaninae subfamilies that often feeds on carrion. Now, here's a quote from Beyond the Black River: "Your body will be eaten by the black-winged, sharp-beaked Children of Jhil." I thought I was a genius until I looked up "Jhil" in the LSdC/LC "Glossary" and saw that they'd already spotted the same thing. In Lamb's Cossack tales, a ghil is some sort of desert-demon.

"kite" link: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Kite_(bird)

[deuce]

Hello and welcome to this forum! These three sites should have all the information that you're looking for.

http://hyboria.xoth.net/gods/gods.htm

http://hyboria.xoth....ods_worship.htm

http://hyboria.xoth....s/good_gods.htm

Thanks, CJH! I've known about xoth.net's site for awhile. Not bad, but it DOES tend to lean on what the pastiches say more than what REH said.

[Dragon Girl]

Ishtar/Ashtoreth, of course, was the Assyrian goddess of love, fertility, sex, and war (interesting combination!), and apparently was very cruel to her cast-off lovers. She also had a bad temper. According to one myth, she descended to the underworld, demanding entry, threatening to break down the doors and thus unleash the dead to eat the living. She was allowed in on condition that she shed one article of clothing at each of the seven gates. By the time she arrived at the 7th gate, she was naked, and also very angry, so she attacks Ereshkigal, Queen of the Underworld, but ends up imprisoned. At this point, all sexual activity on Earth ceased. Setting her free involves the use of some monster that is both male and female, and the Waters of Life, and some other complicated stuff. I guess hacking at each other with swords was just too easy!

[deuce]

You could argue that Valhalla, while being the ultimate achievement of any warrior in Norse mythology, still wasn't all that pleasant an afterlife when viewed in the light of our modern conceptions, as, to the extent of my knowledge, none of the Einherjer surived Ragnarok (but then, dying in battle was the ultimate achievement).

You're approaching "Howard's Valhalla" from a "textbook" viewpoint. NOTHING said by Howard in these three tales...

http://howardworks.c...toryf.htm#frost

http://howardworks.com/storyg.htm#grey

The Cairn on the Headland: http://howardworks.c...n1-clayton.html


...would indicate that "Valhalla" (in REH's universe) would be a fun place to spend eternity. In fact, quite the opposite.

According to Howard, Ymir and Odin BOTH "held court" in "Valhalla". Quite strange and NOT according to standard Norse mythology. Of course, if "Ymir" and "Odin" were one and the same...

[deuce]

Ishtar/Ashtoreth, of course, was the Assyrian goddess of love, fertility, sex, and war (interesting combination!), and apparently was very cruel to her cast-off lovers. She also had a bad temper. According to one myth, she descended to the underworld, demanding entry, threatening to break down the doors and thus unleash the dead to eat the living. She was allowed in on condition that she shed one article of clothing at each of the seven gates. By the time she arrived at the 7th gate, she was naked, and also very angry, so she attacks Ereshkigal, Queen of the Underworld, but ends up imprisoned. At this point, all sexual activity on Earth ceased. Setting her free involves the use of some monster that is both male and female, and the Waters of Life, and some other complicated stuff. I guess hacking at each other with swords was just too easy!

Just about everything Robert E. Howard had to say about the "real" Ishtar can be found here:

http://www.conan.com...423&hl=marchers

[deuce]

I thought about posting this on the "RPG" board, but really didn't see the point...

How did Vincent Darlage/Mongoose portray Nordheimr mythology (ie, "Ymir and his daughters")? I know that VD/Mongoose always liked to take a "dark" tangent when dealing with REH's Hyborian Age religions (Darlage tried to make Kalanthes/Ibis as evil as Thoth-amon/Set, for example). So, how was Ymir portrayed in the Mongoose game?

[Lunatic]

IWhat about Atali? Apart from her father being Ymir, I don't know any connection with Norse mythology. There is a class among the Cherokee people called Atali, which is the term given to those who live near home (as opposed to the Erati, the hunters and scouts), but that's quite tenuous at best.

Probably the only deity I can think of with absolutely no connection with "modern" mythology is Jhebbal Sag.

Perhaps she is an "evil" valkyrie of sorts...but there is a legend about a female mountain creature who lures wanderers lost in blizzards in the hills. Luring them deeper into wilderness just like in the story. The legend might have arisen from the fact that when people find lost wanderers in the hills, dead from the freezing cold sometimes they seem to have taken their clothes off. This highly illogical behaviour is a symptom for hypothermia. I looked around a bit on wiki but I couldn´t find any more details. Think she is called the "white lady".

[Konorg]

Ishtar/Ashtoreth, of course, was the Assyrian goddess of love, fertility, sex, and war (interesting combination!), and apparently was very cruel to her cast-off lovers. She also had a bad temper. According to one myth, she descended to the underworld, demanding entry, threatening to break down the doors and thus unleash the dead to eat the living. She was allowed in on condition that she shed one article of clothing at each of the seven gates. By the time she arrived at the 7th gate, she was naked, and also very angry, so she attacks Ereshkigal, Queen of the Underworld, but ends up imprisoned. At this point, all sexual activity on Earth ceased. Setting her free involves the use of some monster that is both male and female, and the Waters of Life, and some other complicated stuff. I guess hacking at each other with swords was just too easy!

Have you been reading the Simon Necronomicon again?