[Mark Finn]

EDIT: The controversy Mark is referring to is discussed on this thread:

http://www.conan.com...=0&#entry143084
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I want to publicly thank Al and Deuce at the Cimmerian, as well as the active members of the Robert E. Howard United Press Association for leading the charge in the past two days and getting Maggie's damaging and irresponsible articles removed (or heavily caveated) from the Internet. Texas Escapes has pulled the article down and Fandomania has placed enough editorial padding between the piece and the site that there can be no doubt as to the veracity of the piece in question.

There is a lesson here, and we need to be aware of it. Two lessons, really:. One is, the only people who are going to defent Howard's literary reputation is us. Right here, on the shield wall. That's a fact, and we need to be aware of it. IF we don't speak up, then no one will.

Two, I want us to acknowledge what can be done in a rational, civilized, and more importantly timely manner. I'm thinking, of course, about the Conan movie, currently underway. Granted, what we just did was push around a couple of website owners, who were likely surprised at having to make such an interesting call on a Thursday. It's not the same as dealing with Hollywood. But--and let me be very clear, here--that SHOULD NOT DETER US in any way from trying to make things happen. Personally, I want to be able to say to people who will invariably ask me what's wrong with the Conan movie that I did my very best to try and change it. Or, better still, I'd like us to quietly celebrate in our own corner of the web when we GET the changes we've been fighting for and the movie is a success instead of a Black, Soul Crushing Hole of Disappointment.

Thank you, everyone, for coming to the defense of Robert E. Howard. Do not put up your steel just yet, my friends. Keep it sharp, and keep it handy. This was merely a skirmish. Next year, I fear, we will start to prepare for war.

Your Leader in the Guerrilla Resistance,
Mark Finn

[Taranaich]

Trust me, Mark, there's no need to thank us, though I deeply appreciate the vote of confidence.

The thing which struck me about Maggiegate is that, unlike certain other critics of Howard in recent memory, Maggie has admitted her mistakes. She isn't Fenner, so inflated on her own self-importance so as not to see how her words could be so damaging: she now seems to realise that her piece was ill-informed and riddled with holes. Fenner is beyond hope, but Maggie's rehabilitation has begun.

Best of all, it shows how quickly and resolutely us Howard fans bind together. Like Cimmerians at the onset of an Aquilonian invasion, we put aside our old feuds to tackle a bigger enemy. Seeing all the heartfelt, courteous comments had my heart swelling with pride, like the Gundermen at the Valley of Lions. I've never been more proud to be a Robert E. Howard fan.

[timeless]

As Louis L'Amour said, 'Trust in God all you want but keep your powder dry.'

I'm a link in your shield wall, Finn. Hold forth.

[Mike_The_Barbarian]

Quote

I'm a link in your shield wall, Finn. Hold forth.

Haha, yeah! We kick ass! I'm really happy this has been sorted out. You guys did a fantastic job!

[amsterdamaged]

Okay... I've been absent a few days. Can some one fill me in on what's this about?

[Axerules]

amsterdamaged, on 17 December 2009 - 02:40 AM, said:

Okay... I've been absent a few days. Can some one fill me in on what's this about?

Read this thread: http://www.conan.com...=0&#entry143084

[Axerules]

Needless to say: I'm wholeheartedly with you, Mark.

[Arcadian]

Thank you axerules for the link; I missed this story as well. And thank all that took part in defending Howard's and his family's honor.

I will not be so reasonable though. Assuming that all that has been ever said about Howard is true, that was a glib and offensive piece of "journalism" that marks where things are "progressing" in the meltdown of various media. Worse will come.

[amsterdamaged]

Axerules, on 16 December 2009 - 08:42 PM, said:

amsterdamaged, on 17 December 2009 - 02:40 AM, said:

Okay... I've been absent a few days. Can some one fill me in on what's this about?

Read this thread: http://www.conan.com...=0&#entry143084

Read it. I think I'm going to be sick. I really have nothing nice to say, and if I said how I really feel, I'd probably get banned.

[Strom]

Well done everyone.

I think another point that Mark did not mention - probably because he is too humble - but we really need to rally as a fan base to promote & market Mark's excellent REH biography BLOOD AND THUNDER: THE LIFE AND ART OF ROBERT E. HOWARD.

If Ms. Ostander would've just known of Finn's book maybe today would not of been necessary. I say we link it where ever we can - I'm adding it to my sig here and other forums. We need to make sure Blood & Thunder is recognized as the definitive REH biography and that every biographical essay on REH has B&T as a source.

[deuce]

Strom, on 17 December 2009 - 03:56 AM, said:

Well done everyone.

I think another point that Mark did not mention - probably because he is too humble - but we really need to rally as a fan base to promote & market Mark's excellent REH biography BLOOD AND THUNDER: THE LIFE AND ART OF ROBERT E. HOWARD.

If Ms. Ostander would've just known of Finn's book maybe today would not of been necessary. I say we link it where ever we can - I'm adding it to my sig here and other forums. We need to make sure Blood & Thunder is recognized as the definitive REH biography and that every biographical essay on REH has B&T as a source.

Right on. Another thing we can do is go to Amazon and other sites and write negative reviews of DVD and then refer buyers to B&T. For uninformed (or willfully obtuse; I'm talking to y'all, Romeo and Allsup) fans, DVD is still the "gold standard", for Crom's sake. What we here on the Forum think is "old news", is all brand-new revelation to most people out there.

[monk]

what's dramatically becoming sadly ironic, is that most entities in charge of brands like Howard who have a vested interest in protecting the correct impact of said property actually hire people to protect their market real estate, as opposed to leaving them open for the vapid hacks...or worse, HIRING vapid hacks to handle the materials or public consumption of the brand as we are seeing go down in the upcoming movie effort.

Howard and his creations are a brand. A mega brand. probably one of the first.

Anyway, add my shield.

[Mark Finn]

Thanks, guys, and I appreciate the linkage. I do want to point out two things:

Looking on the Fandomania comments, you'll note that after that initial salvo (and who can blame Damon, really?) and her retorts, the comments become longer, more polite, and more logical. Many of them are very nice in their impersonal destruction of the piece. That's important. Staying away from personal attacks, and focusing only on the source of the problem, is far and above the best way to go. Insulting, personal name-calling, etc. will only have people invoking the "Well, that's the Internet for you," clause and dismissing our valid concerns.

The other thing is in the nature of the web searches: I did a Google search for "Robert E. Howard" biography and here's what came up:

The first two links were to the defunt REHoward website, but they were for Rusty's Short Biography. So, it's a FAIL, but it's in the right direction.

The Third link was to some smallish site that I'd never heard of before, with a light and fluffy and incidentally accurate REH bio on it. Interesting, but not near enough for a researcher.

The fourt link: Amazon.com: Blood & Thunder

The fifth link: Amazon.com: Dark Valley Destiny

Wikipedia's entry didn't come up, nor this website, nor the Cimmerian, nor Rehupa, nor the Foundation page--at least, not in the first page of links. I don't know how to swing those google stats over in our direction, but if you're a webmaster reading this, and you can do Google Fu to get your search keywords pointed in our direction, that would be great.

Again, my thanks, and let's keep the banners flying.

[timeless]

I've received more than a few paychecks by working in the PR/promotion game and am of the mind that often (too often) negative publicity works as well as if not better than its counterpart.

I think that if this broad received no other attention or energy devoted to her ignorant article on REH, she would soon be invisible and mute. (She certainly won't, seventy years after her death, have a virtual community of people who share their love of her writing .)

[Crom's bells]

I too am honored to be part of this classy, mature community. I've seen many comments that our members have made to rebuke lies and accusations of Howard and his creations, but carried in as polite a tone as possible. What impresses me most about this community is that we're so passionate about defending our property, that we go all out to do it, and not just being half-hearted.

In short, it is my pleasure to be posting here along with so many good, like-minded people

[deuce]

timeless, on 17 December 2009 - 06:55 AM, said:

I've received more than a few paychecks by working in the PR/promotion game and am of the mind that often (too often) negative publicity works as well as if not better than its counterpart.

I think that if this broad received no other attention or energy devoted to her ignorant article on REH, she would soon be invisible and mute. (She certainly won't, seventy years after her death, have a virtual community of people who share their love of her writing .)

Actually, MVO has won several awards and has a regular column in the Huffington Post. That's the thing, she's a "respected journalist" whose writings go out to several different demographics: ultra-left, geekdom and Texans/Texan tourists. Ignoring this would have just let the seeds she TRIED to sow blossom and later bear bitter fruit.

These half-truths about REH are like weeds. You gotta get on 'em. In reality, not that many people bought DVD or The Miscast Barbarian, but the ones who read 'em were fans who THEN told other people, who looked upon those misguided souls as "REH authorities", of a sort. LSdC had that sort of effect on his fellow writers as well. They looked to HIM for the lowdown and formed their opinions accordingly.

[Alpha Beta Mu]

Regarding Google, that might be due to Google tailoring the results for the individual. My search came up with these as the top five:

1) Wikipedia biography
2) Conan.com
3) Google Images results (most of which were photos of REH)
4) Howard Works
5) REHupa

Google tends to work based on how many times a page has been linked to by other pages. However, I believe the exact nature of their sorting algorithms are secret to prevent commerical companies trying to abuse them.

[ironmammoth]

As a keen fan and collector of REH, I would just like to add my thanks to all the scholars and keen defenders/promoters of REH and work that they do.

It is great to see the community pull together when these things crop up. I would love to have chipped in with my own opinion and left comments on the pages of the offending article, but as I could not back up whatever I would have said, I thought it best to leave it to the experts.

If only the author of that piece had done the same!!!

[Croms Bones]

Mark Finn, on 16 December 2009 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't know how to swing those google stats over in our direction, but if you're a webmaster reading this, and you can do Google Fu to get your search keywords pointed in our direction, that would be great.

I have a black belt in Google Fu, and there are a number of things that we could do to mold search results to our favor. It will require some patience, participation from webmasters, and some edits to pages, and perhaps even a change in practice of some writing styles (title mainly... less creative/humorous, and more paying attention to how people actually search for things).

I'll come up with some stuff this weekend, and you implement what you want.

This post has been edited by Croms Bones: 18 December 2009 - 08:33 PM

[theagenes]

I was in the field this week with limited internet access and missed this whole dust-up. This was an outstanding job by everyone involved.

I really do think that everyone should post reviews of DVD at Amazon. Right now there are three 5-star ratings and only one 1-star. Just cutting and pasting some of the excellent responses to Maggie's piece would be very effective, imo.