[amsterdamaged]

Like most of you, I was outraged Maggie Von Ostrand's article on REH, by far the the most incindiary piece thing ever written about the man IMO. As REH continues to gain popularity through film adaptations and whatnot, my fear is that the lies and misinformation is going to continue to be perpetuated. As Mark Twain said, “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes". As a way of fighting back, I propose an annual award, the DeCampista Award, given out to a single individual who did the most in the calender year to set back the progress of REH studies, both in terms of the man himself and his literary creations. It could be voted on by a panel of REH scholars (Mark, Rusty Patrice, etc). A proposed list of candidates for the 2009 award would include:

Arnie Fenner (Bitter Tree)
Maggie Von Ostrand (the clear frontrunner)
Donnelly/Oppenheimer (Conan 2010)
Arvid Nelson (Dark Horse Kull)
Michael Bassett (Solomon Kane)

[Taranaich]

Ho ho, what fun.

[Libaax]

Fenner and Von Ostrand really annoyed me. Special the disgusting trash i read by Van Ostrand.

You dont check REH forum for one day and someone is writing outright lies about him.

This post has been edited by Libaax: 17 December 2009 - 04:46 PM

[Officer Aggro]

I didn't mind Arvid Nelson's Kull adaptation too much (black picts included), but I wasn't thrilled that his very next project was Thulsa Doom, an obvious bastardization of the original Doom character.

I'll have to check out Von Ostrand's article, though. Sounds like a real winner...

[Taranaich]

It's definitely between Fenner & Ostrand's pieces. The deciding factor is that Ostrand's is more or less neutralised: Fenner has not recanted his nonsense, and Memory is still out there, waiting to pollute the minds of prospective REH fans. Ostrand's is the most offensive by a mile, but Fenner's might be the most damaging in the long term.

[PainBrush]

For what it's worth , there is a lot to be said for Ostrand eventually realizing she walked in loudly singing her song into a room already quite full . Maybe she never imagined there were a large number of enthusiastic REH fans like everyone who quickly replied to her B.S. article - & who promptly schooled her on the error of her ways & the "CURRENT" knowledge about REH rather than the same-old-same-old DeCampista stuff . Fenner , even when a number of fans called him out on the floor for his nonsense -NEVER budged an inch , never said as much as " I may have been wrong " or "I should have checked my facts better" . AND that was in an actual book with REH's name all over it in a bunch of national bookstore chains - not just in some smallish Texan newspaper &/or blog for 1 day & deleted . I agree Fenners crap will be the more damaging in the long run , and he's more of a tool for not even walking up to the fence , much less jumping over it .

As for the Doppenheimers , they're clueless monkeys , are they more responsible for just being hack writers , or the producers/director who even acknowledged their idiotic childish script ?

This post has been edited by PainBrush: 17 December 2009 - 08:40 PM

[monk]

Taranaich, on 17 December 2009 - 01:15 PM, said:

It's definitely between Fenner & Ostrand's pieces. The deciding factor is that Ostrand's is more or less neutralised: Fenner has not recanted his nonsense, and Memory is still out there, waiting to pollute the minds of prospective REH fans. Ostrand's is the most offensive by a mile, but Fenner's might be the most damaging in the long term.

well, to me, fenner is mitigated by the simple fact that what follows should sort of rub out his statements.

the ostrand thing seems recanted.

since Kull is not as popular as Conan, I would put my vote for the award to go to the hack job movie, which will set REH and Conan back decades as it stands now, and will reach the most people.

[Haemogoblin]

I think the movie folks have next year's (2010) award in the bag.

[Libaax]

monk, on 18 December 2009 - 12:40 AM, said:

Taranaich, on 17 December 2009 - 01:15 PM, said:

It's definitely between Fenner & Ostrand's pieces. The deciding factor is that Ostrand's is more or less neutralised: Fenner has not recanted his nonsense, and Memory is still out there, waiting to pollute the minds of prospective REH fans. Ostrand's is the most offensive by a mile, but Fenner's might be the most damaging in the long term.

well, to me, fenner is mitigated by the simple fact that what follows should sort of rub out his statements.

the ostrand thing seems recanted.

since Kull is not as popular as Conan, I would put my vote for the award to go to the hack job movie, which will set REH and Conan back decades as it stands now, and will reach the most people.

I dont think Fenner can do any real damage.

People buy the books they want before ever reading the introduction. Mostly you don want read it before reading the stories. Since usually its spoils what the book is about.

Plus his mainstream lit snobbery is old news to readers of the fantastic. They know the so called critics will put down quality genre writers before generic maintream lit writers.


Ostrand can do much bigger damage, making people on the net believe the author is crazy,stuff and people might not want to read his famous stories then.

This post has been edited by Libaax: 18 December 2009 - 02:12 AM

[Crom's bells]

Oh come on, Michael J Bassett shouldn't be in that list.

[daniel]

am i to understand that bassett's solomon kane offering did not meet the expectations of our forum members? what exactly have i been missing? please enlighten me.

[Axerules]

Crom said:

Oh come on, Michael J Bassett shouldn't be in that list.

Why?

I will see the "SK" next week. I don't know yet what it's worth as a cinema movie.

But it's not 'faithful' by any means. MJB's script (I've seen it) is an origin story which ignores what REH wrote and changes the very nature of the character.
Bassett says he likes REH, but has also repeated during interviews that SK's "journey to redemption" was "at the core of the character". HIS reinvented character. When he wrote his screenplay, he wilfully ignored what was written by SK's creator to impose his personal vision.

If the film succeed, what will happen? The general public will "know" that Solomon Kane was an Evil guy, whose life was dedicated to redeem himself.

100% pastiche.

[Crom's bells]

I see your point about the origin story, but from what we've seen regarding the nature of the character - for the bulk of the movie - I certainly don't think the grim, atypical nature/behaviour of Kane from the stories has been changed much.

[Axerules]

Crom said:

I see your point about the origin story, but from what we've seen regarding the nature of the character - for the bulk of the movie - I certainly don't think the grim, atypical nature/behaviour of Kane from the stories has been changed much.

"grimness" isn't the sole criterion which makes a character "Howardian".
Have you seen the movie or read the screenplay? Bassett changed Solomon Kane's basic motives.

[amsterdamaged]

I haven't seen Solomon Kane. Based on what I've heard, I'll probably enjoy it based on its own merits, but based on what I've heard, Basset at least deserves to be nominated. Just my (uninformed) opinion. I could be wrong. Like I said, I haven't seen it.

[Crom's bells]

Axerules, on 18 December 2009 - 06:02 PM, said:

Crom said:

I see your point about the origin story, but from what we've seen regarding the nature of the character - for the bulk of the movie - I certainly don't think the grim, atypical nature/behaviour of Kane from the stories has been changed much.

"grimness" isn't the sole criterion which makes a character "Howardian".
Have you seen the movie or read the screenplay? Bassett changed Solomon Kane's basic motives.

No I haven't, therefore I have reserved further judgement on Bassett and SK. And from what I've seen from the video clips, the theatrics definitely reflect the stories well enough. Is the movie a completely faithful adaptation of the stories, where our protagonist's past is a mystery? No. Is it a good representation of Solomon Kane's settings, where a Puritan destroys evil in moody fashion? For the most part, yes. Based on that merit, I believe SK should at least be given the benefit of doubt that movie goers will no longer think of S&S as campy, cheesy flicks eg. Van Helsing - and in achieving that, it brings people's attention to Howard's style of writing, that it may potentially help the books to sell if they are intrigued by the parallels that both movie and book draw. All that is just hypothetical, but it is definitely a more plausible scenario. On the other hand, I find it difficult to make the same claim for the new Conan movie. By butchering Howard's works in every possible way, it becomes a blatant lie that people will buy into for the price of a movie ticket, and in being a horrible movie, it may just further make people disinterested in the original stories.

That being said, I can understand - and I do not disagree - with the reasoning for SK to be considered less than faithful to the source material; I just don't think it's fair for MJB to be in this list with the likes of Maggie Van Ostrand and Doppenheimer.

[MoeTheBarman]

PainBrush, on 17 December 2009 - 07:25 PM, said:

Lol! They look just like the England Rubgy Union coach Martin Johnson! Not that I'd tell him that, he's bigger than Conan

[Libaax]

I agree Bassett went wrong with a origin story,changing the important mysterious past that made Kane who he was in the stories.

But if they get the character right, i will forgive the origin thing easily. I badly need to see something that is faitful in parts,is a good film.

[PainBrush]

MOE said:

Lol! They look just like the England Rubgy Union coach Martin Johnson! Not that I'd tell him that, he's bigger than Conan

HAHAHAH !! Yes . I had no idea who Johnson was ( rugby isn't too popular or shown often here in the colonies ) - so I did a quick A.O.L. image search......

HAHAH - Yeah I'd say he's maybe related to them . heeheee Good call there Moe

This post has been edited by PainBrush: 19 December 2009 - 07:35 AM

[Carcosa]

Isn't Michael Bassett one of the prime movers behind Wandering Star, the publisher that really set the standard for all the REH books that have followed through by Del Rey? The series that will be the definitive REH library?

I guess this really is a "what have you done for me lately" scenario.