210 replies to this topic

[Freebooter]

While it didn't follow Howard 100%, I still loved the Arnie one just as a good ol Sword and Sandal movie. Heck, I used to love all those old 1960s era Greek movies, Sinbad, Jason and the Argonauts, Hercules, etc, etc..
FB

[Bonesaw]

Labyrinth and Willow were not Sword and Sorcery movies. They may as well have thrown in The Dark Crystal, The Neverending Story and Legend and called those SS movies too.

[Almuric]

Yeah, alot of those were fun fantasy movies, but I'm not sure CTB paved the way. Now, the Ators, the Deathstalkers, the million-and-one Italian barbarian movies, those were what it paved the way for. Unfortunately.

[cherryfunk]

Just watched it for probably the fiftieth time on AMC with "Story Notes."

Toward the end one of the story notes was "Conan paved the way for other Sword and Sorcery movies like Willow, Labyrinth and Red Sonya."

*shakes head*

And therein lies the answer to the question: "Why do you guys hate Milius' CTB?"

How so? The 'story note' is total nonsense. WILLOW began as a treatment by Lucas in the 1970's. LABYRINTH isn't a S&S movie. Both of them, by the way, are good films that hold up pretty well. So you hate the Milius Conan because you think, incorrectly, that it paved the way for two other fine 80's fantasy films? Or did RED SONYA so injure your psyche that all the pent up rage must be leveled at Milius and Arnold? All you're doing is showing how irrational your dislike is.

[Freebooter]

I will probably get cussed for this, but personally, just my opinion, I liked Arnie as Conan, or at least Conan in a certain period of his life. And I liked the movie. The only thing I did not like was the beginning, and his growing up a slave, which never happened in the stories.
FB

[Reaver]

Like I said in the other thread, I look at CtB82 as a "What if...?" story. I feel that if the literary Conan had been abducted into slavery after watching his village being slaughtered at the age of ten, he would have turned out very much like he did in the film. At his core, he's still REH's Conan. But his personality and behavior was altered from the free-roaming barbarian of literature.

Just my take.

[Freebooter]

Reaver, I agree with that too.

[warhead]

I was a huge fan of Conan 82, but in retrospect its a character made up by John Millius and should have been called Conaan instead, still loved the movie but it just wasnt Conan.

[witchfire]

there is a diference between "heroic fantasy" (labyrinth , dark crystal, willow, Lotr)
& "sword & sorcery" (conan, elric, ect)

[drush9999]

Think you got the definition of Heroic Fantasy slightly wrong there

High Fantasy / Epic Fantasy - Lord of the Rings, Song of Ice and Fire
Heroic Fantasy - David Gemmell
Sword and Sorcery - Conan, Wagner's Kane, Elric etc

Heroic Fantasy is closer to S&S imho

[witchfire]

Think you got the definition of Heroic Fantasy slightly wrong there

High Fantasy / Epic Fantasy - Lord of the Rings, Song of Ice and Fire
Heroic Fantasy - David Gemmell
Sword and Sorcery - Conan, Wagner's Kane, Elric etc

Heroic Fantasy is closer to S&S imho

i heva absolutly no idea who's David Gemmell

[Ironhand]

Like I said in the other thread, I look at CtB82 as a "What if...?" story. I feel that if the literary Conan had been abducted into slavery after watching his village being slaughtered at the age of ten, he would have turned out very much like he did in the film. At his core, he's still REH's Conan. But his personality and behavior was altered from the free-roaming barbarian of literature.

Just my take.

I don't dig this "what if..." It's like asking "What if Superman had been raised in a log cabin and run for President?"

Or "what if Santa Clause had been born on Krypton?"

Or "what if Little Orphan Annie had been born on a Greek island and had magic bracelets?"

In other words, my take is, it's just ridiculous. It's like asking "how far can I depart from this character, and still have it be the character?" Milius did his little thought experiment and found out how far he could depart from the character and fail to still have it be the character.

[Reaver]

Fair enough. No one says you have to agree with my take. But please, don't ridicule it.

[Ironhand]

Fair enough. No one says you have to agree with my take. But please, don't ridicule it.

Sorry. I guess I could have written it more politely by just writing the last paragraph. But I was just typing stream of consciousness.

Edited by Ironhand, 19 September 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[lespaul59]

I personaly think all adaptations should be considered alternate realities. I tend to think of it more along the lines of DC's Elseworlds stories. And using Superman isn't the best argument for not liking What If or Elseworld stories because you have SM: Red Son where he lands in Russia insted of the US. And there is even a story where SM is raised by the Waynes and ends up becoming Batman, which is SM: Speeding Bullet. I guess this is how I've also thought about the different Conans.

[icarus]

I personaly think all adaptations should be considered alternate realities. I tend to think of it more along the lines of DC's Elseworlds stories. And using Superman isn't the best argument for not liking What If or Elseworld stories because you have SM: Red Son where he lands in Russia insted of the US. And there is even a story where SM is raised by the Waynes and ends up becoming Batman, which is SM: Speeding Bullet. I guess this is how I've also thought about the different Conans.

There's nothing wrong with this. It's fun and mostly harmless. The problem is when the "what if" stories are instantly the main stream view as far as films go. If there are people who have only seen the films, they are going to know nothing about Howard or the literary Conan character, and that is sad for me because I enjoy Howard's writing so much and would like for other people I know to develop an interest or at least a respect for the character... pretty much impossible considering the new film...

[cherryfunk]

Like I said in the other thread, I look at CtB82 as a "What if...?" story. I feel that if the literary Conan had been abducted into slavery after watching his village being slaughtered at the age of ten, he would have turned out very much like he did in the film. At his core, he's still REH's Conan. But his personality and behavior was altered from the free-roaming barbarian of literature.

Just my take.

I don't dig this "what if..." It's like asking "What if Superman had been raised in a log cabin and run for President?"

That, I think, would make a fantastic film. I would gladly to pay to see Superman campaigning for president. Much, much more entertaining than the fifteenth version of the same tired origin tale, no?

[Ironhand]

The problem with the "what if" stories is that someone thinks of an interesting fantasy variation, and that variation is the real star of the story, rather than the alleged "central character". IMHO, that's ok once the character is so well-used and imbedded in everybody's psyche that he's starting to get boring. This is NOT the case with Conan, where the public has yet to see Conan properly depicted on the screen in the first place.

So in CTB 82, the star of the movie is "what if an unfortunate barbarian boy is enslaved as a child, and educated and trained by Eastern Masters?" The answer is "He grows up to be strong, dull-witted, and slow-moving." As Arnie so perfectly illustrated. He was perfect for the role of the unfortunate orphaned freedman.

Edited by Ironhand, 20 September 2011 - 06:28 AM.

[lespaul59]

I can totaly get why people don't like what if stories because there has been more than one time when I wanted to beat my head against the wall after seeing another element from the Donnerverse show up in other versions of Superman. I really like SM 1 and 2 but I think they have elements from those movies way to much in the comics and in shows such as Smallville. And one thing that also bothers me thats SM related is when somebody complains about something not being part of the continuity when they're clearly making reference to the Donnerverse and not the comics. And this is why I get some of the ill feelings towards CTB 82. AS much as I love the Arnold movies I was so hoping we where gonna get a Conan movie based on a REH story.

[grim cimmerian]

There's nothing wrong with this. It's fun and mostly harmless. The problem is when the "what if" stories are instantly the main stream view as far as films go. If there are people who have only seen the films, they are going to know nothing about Howard or the literary Conan character, and that is sad for me because I enjoy Howard's writing so much and would like for other people I know to develop an interest or at least a respect for the character... pretty much impossible considering the new film...

I love the marvel "what if" stories and I like a good many of the Conan pastiches but I can't really see most Conan incarnations as "What if" alternate universe type versions of Conan, rather I see most as watered down or diluted versions to varying degrees from original Howard. If there is no Howard or at least an effort to emulate Howard then I view them as blatant rip offs of Howard's character. I would disagree with the mostly harmless statement as I think pop culture Conan has been skewed farther and farther from Howard's vision but agree fully with the rest of the quote, well said.

Edited by grim cimmerian, 20 September 2011 - 08:31 AM.