21 replies to this topic

[doubledeviant]

Might be interesting to see who various Robert Howard fans think look somewhat Pictish... after all, the Pictish look is somewhat of an enigma.

I'm sure to be crucified for this, but how about Taylor Lautner of Twilight fame (or infamy)? Dark-skinned but "white", dark eyes, a shorter but muscled Pictish frame... Surely Kull would agree that Lautner is a "fine man" for the part of Brule, indeed!

[amster]

Having participated in anything to do with Twilight automatically disqualifies an actor for consideration in any REH related project. I won't even entertain such a notion.

[doubledeviant]

Having participated in anything to do with Twilight automatically disqualifies an actor for consideration in any REH related project. I won't even entertain such a notion.

Lol. I see. What about the look? On target, or no?

[PaulMc]

Mentioned before, but I think Mark Dacascos would be a good choice. (see his turn in Brotherhood of the Wolf)

Of course, if you want to disqualify on grounds of stuff he's done before, he's been on Iron Chef and Dancing With the Stars...

[PaulMc]

Having participated in anything to do with Twilight automatically disqualifies an actor for consideration in any REH related project. I won't even entertain such a notion.

Lol. I see. What about the look? On target, or no?

I can see it a little, but only as a very young Pict. If he wants to be Brule or Bran he needs a few more scars and less babyface. (just my opinion)

[Kortoso]

Mentioned before, but I think Mark Dacascos would be a good choice. (see his turn in Brotherhood of the Wolf)

Of course, if you want to disqualify on grounds of stuff he's done before, he's been on Iron Chef and Dancing With the Stars...

He matches my vision perfectly as well. Despite the dancing and cooking...

[doubledeviant]

@Othnar: JSL's Asian features are a bit too strong to match my image of the Picts. Still better than Dark Horse Picts, tho.

@PaulMc & Kortoso: Yeah, I could accept Mark Dacascos as Brule. He's of mixed ancestry resulting in appropriate features for a Pict, and I did enjoy his performance in BotW.

Any others?

[deuce]

@Othnar: JSL's Asian features are a bit too strong to match my image of the Picts. Still better than Dark Horse Picts, tho.

Right on. The distinction betwixt Picts and "Asians" (hate that term) is explicit or implicit in several REH texts.

@PaulMc & Kortoso: Yeah, I could accept Mark Dacascos as Brule. He's of mixed ancestry resulting in appropriate features for a Pict, and I did enjoy his performance in BotW.

"Mixed ancestry" is usually the key for me when looking for the "Pictish phenotype". "Caucasian" (in double quotes), but with a an indefinable "exotic" feel. REH made clear that the Picts were an entirely separate "race". In fact, they were the "First Race" of true Homo Sapiens, according to Howard.

Any others?

My two candidates are (1) dead or (2) too old. Ricardo Montalban and Javier Bardem.

Edited by deuce, 06 August 2010 - 07:59 AM.

[doubledeviant]

Right on. The distinction betwixt Picts and "Asians" (hate that term) is explicit or implicit in several REH texts.

I use that term here and there because I am not so good at identifying the various Asian races by sight. Chinese, Japanese, and Korean decent I can sometimes identify. Not saying that all look alike, just that I've not been educated nor learned enough by exposure to have a good sense for specifics.

"Mixed ancestry" is usually the key for me when looking for the "Pictish phenotype". "Caucasian" (in double quotes), but with a an indefinable "exotic" feel. REH made clear that the Picts were an entirely separate "race". In fact, they were the "First Race" of true Homo Sapiens, according to Howard.

I recall Howard describing them as (paraphrase) "white but not accepted by the other white races as such". Dark skin, dark eyes, short in stature.

It's made all the more difficult to imagine because "white" is so broad a term (at least in regards Howard's work). Virtually all peoples from Europe, the Middle East, and Russia are "white", correct? Obviously, there's a LOT of variation within such a broad category.

My two candidates are (1) dead or (2) too old. Ricardo Montalban and Javier Bardem.

KHAAAAAAAAAN!!!

My first reaction to both was negative, but... looking at a picture of Ricardo Montalban as Khan in Star Trek (the original series), I can see a sort of "hint of all races" in his appearance... So, yeah, he might have been a good choice.

Javier Bardem I'm not so sure about. Some pics maybe, others prob not (imo). Can't recall seeing him on-screen, so I'm going from stills alone.

[Kortoso]

For me, it's not a matter of whether someone is mixed race or not. I don't care if a margarita has fifteen types of tequila in it or one. Howard implied that there was an ancient, forgotten race. The Picts may resemble the Ainu or Kennewick Man, or Australian Aborigines. The Malay strain from southeast Asia is something that Howard and his contemporaries would call "primitive" and "ancient" although they're simply different. One could pretend that a mixed-race person such as Dacascos would represent a "purer" Pict, whatever that means.



What about Temuera Morrison?

[deuce]

Right on. The distinction betwixt Picts and "Asians" (hate that term) is explicit or implicit in several REH texts.

I use that term here and there because I am not so good at identifying the various Asian races by sight. Chinese, Japanese, and Korean decent I can sometimes identify. Not saying that all look alike, just that I've not been educated nor learned enough by exposure to have a good sense for specifics.

Wasn't jumping on you, DD. It's all good. It's simply that I dislike the relatively new, inaccurate PC term "Asian". "Asian" (which is just a synonym for the older term, "Oriental") now is generally used to indicate ONE phenotype when Asia has hosted sizable populations of "Caucasoids" (the Caucasus Mts. are IN Asia, for Crom's sake) and even "Negroids" for tens of thousands of years. In fact, since the populations of India and Pakistan overwhelmingly exhibit the "Caucasoid" phenotype (as do the populations of many of the countries of west and central Asia) the "Asian" phenotype may not even hold a clear majority in Asia. The same thing has been done in regards to the term "African".

Conversely, a very large fraction (if not a majority) of the population of the Western Hemisphere still looks much like the original inhabitants, but I doubt many people would say Danny Trejo or Cheech Marin look "American".

It's made all the more difficult to imagine because "white" is so broad a term (at least in regards Howard's work). Virtually all peoples from Europe, the Middle East, and Russia are "white", correct? Obviously, there's a LOT of variation within such a broad category.

Indeed. However, from the numerous clues and descriptions given in "The Lost Race", "Men of the Shadows" and "Kings of the Night", the default "look", such as it is, would be "Mediterranean". REH's words, speaking from BMM's lips.

Edited by deuce, 06 August 2010 - 10:17 PM.

[deuce]

For me, it's not a matter of whether someone is mixed race or not. I don't care if a margarita has fifteen types of tequila in it or one. Howard implied that there was an ancient, forgotten race.

My only point was that such individuals (ones with a "Caucasoid" look, but having a slight "exotic" cast to their features) would tend to echo what REH himself said about BMM (and by extension, Brule and other "classic" Picts).

The Picts may resemble the Ainu or Kennewick Man, or Australian Aborigines.

I assume you're joking about that last one, Kortoso. REH's description of Bran was pretty clear and unequivocal.

What about Temuera Morrison?

I think that Morrison would make a much better Pict than a Gaul.

[doubledeviant]

@Kortoso: For me, it's about trying to imagine the characters as I read Howard's stories. As you say, the Picts are a fictional race, so I'm not looking for a "definitive image", just actors who embody the general look we imagine as we read. Just curious if what I'm picturing is on target with other fans.

The Star Wars prequels were awful, but Temuera Morrison could work for me, I think.

Indeed. However, from the numerous clues and descriptions given in "The Lost Race", "Men of the Shadows" and "Kings of the Night", the default "look", such as it is, would be "Mediterranean". REH's words, speaking from BMM's lips.

Mediterranean meaning something like Grecian or Roman/Italian?

Just had a thought when logging into the forums:

Could Jason Momoa, the ill-chosen Conan of the upcoming film, have been a candidate for a Pict character (hair dyed to black, of course)? Not Mediterranean, but sort of right in some ways...

[deuce]

Indeed. However, from the numerous clues and descriptions given in "The Lost Race", "Men of the Shadows" and "Kings of the Night", the default "look", such as it is, would be "Mediterranean". REH's words, speaking from BMM's lips.

Mediterranean meaning something like Grecian or Roman/Italian?

I would never say that in Bran Mak Morn's presence. No, during REH's era (and earlier), "Mediterranean" was a commonly used term to describe the general "look" of the various populations living around the entire rim of the Med (yes, that includes Africa). In fact, I heard a very senior European diplomat using that term in that way on an NPR segment a couple years back.

As an example, Muamar Qadafi would look perfectly "Italian" (at least at a cursory glance) in an Armani suit. At the same time, plenty of Sicilians could pass for Syrians. In "The Lost Race", REH basically stated that the Picts were the foundational ethnic strata of the Mediterranean population, especially the southern and western contingents. He has Picts inhabiting the "Pre-Med" Basin in his "Brachen the Kelt" fragment. The Picts of BMM's folk were the (mongrelized) northern branch of that, with Bran himself being of a pure Pictish bloodline (presumably there was some Basque Pictish blood in his veins, though perhaps not).

Could Jason Momoa, the ill-chosen Conan of the upcoming film, have been a candidate for a Pict character (hair dyed to black, of course)? Not Mediterranean, but sort of right in some ways...

He'd make a better over-tall Pict than a Cimmerian, IMO.

[Kortoso]

As an example, Muamar Qadafi would look perfectly "Italian" (at least at a cursory glance) in an Armani suit.

I know many Arabs who have changed their names to "Tony". True story.

I think that we are mostly agreed that we can envision the face of a Pict and can see this in various actors, most of whom have interesting ethnic backgrounds.
I see Picts as having broad faces and somewhat high cheekbones.

[deuce]

As an example, Muamar Qadafi would look perfectly "Italian" (at least at a cursory glance) in an Armani suit.

I know many Arabs who have changed their names to "Tony". True story.

I think that we are mostly agreed that we can envision the face of a Pict and can see this in various actors, most of whom have interesting ethnic backgrounds.
I see Picts as having broad faces and somewhat high cheekbones.

Sounds good. And "hawk-like" noses. One single feature you can find entirely around the Mediterranean before Islamic slavery (and Turkish hegemony) began importing phenotypes from other regions.

[mario]

i like the guy who plays crixus on spartacus for brule. for bran....not too sure yet.

[deuce]

i like the guy who plays crixus on spartacus for brule. for bran....not too sure yet.

Kull (in Kings of the Night) mistook Bran for Brule on first sight. About the only difference, according to Kull, was that Brule was slightly taller.

Morrison's big problem would be pulling off the gravitas of BMM. He would certainly make a better Pict than a Gaul.

[mario]

i remember the height difference, swap them then. the guy appears a bit shorter ( at least than some others he's likely 5'8"? ) on tv