133 replies to this topic

[Ironhand]

I'm reading The Coming of CONAN the Cimmerian now, and although in general I like Mark Schulz's interior illos and their pulpish feel, I have an objection to the clothing and armor he puts on Conan and other characters.

First, let me state that I REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE the fact that he puts real clothes on Conan, rather than the tiresome fur speedo. My problem is that he departs from REH's actual descriptions. He almost always depicts Conan, and other warriors, in pseudo-Babylonian clothing and armor, and uses pseudo-Babylonian hair- and beard styles on characters, even though REH in some stories, clearly describes European Medieval clothing and armor on Conan and others. Compare, for instance, the text and the pictures for Black Colossus.

I guess MS is trying to create an ancient feel to the stories, but since the keynote of this series is supposed to be authenticity, I wish he would have stuck to REH's descriptions.

Edited by Ironhand, 04 May 2009 - 09:33 AM.

[Buxom Sorceress]

hi Ironhand
i completely agree with u !

i guess i am more picky with his art because it is only average at best.
it's dull, uninspiring, + often quite different from the details in reh s text. + conan's face often looks awful, like a very old man?

if it were great art i would never moan at all !

as i have said before on here + at conan.no, that art is not worthy to be in any conan book.
but it is far better than most of the cr ap art in the conan mongoose rpg book 1 !
-
why don't cpi keep joint rights to all the conan art [book covers + comics] so they can put the best pics into future conan compilations, rpg supplements, adverts, etc?!?
seems to me that cpi had no foresight at all in any of their previous art contracts?
but frazetta was very clever.
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but ofcourse reh s stories need no pics as illustration.

[Orkin]

Actually REH was less-than clear and well-informed about his own armor descriptions. How is anyone supposed to depict "scale mail"?

[Ironhand]

Schultz mostly depicts scale mail, even when REH specifies chain mail.

[Kane1701]

Actually REH was less-than clear and well-informed about his own armor descriptions. How is anyone supposed to depict "scale mail"? 

you dont know what "scalemail" looks like ? Kinda hard to believe that you've never seen a pic of it or saw it in a...book, game, museum, or on-line

[Forkbeard]

Everybody knows what scale mail is. I own some. It's in a gym bag downstairs right now. I wear it twice a week. I've often wondered where they get these tools who do the crappy pictures. Don't get me wrong, I cannot draw, but there are several geeks like us who know EXACTLY what everything Howard desrcibes should look like and CAN draw. Why can't one of them get the job?
FB

[Orkin]

Actually REH was less-than clear and well-informed about his own armor descriptions. How is anyone supposed to depict "scale mail"??

you dont know what "scalemail" looks like ? Kinda hard to believe that you've never seen a pic of it or saw it in a...book, game, museum, or on-line

There's scale and then there's mail, which is links. The chimera scale-mail (or at least the name) doesn't really exist. Now if you are accustomed to calling scale armor, "scale mail", that's fine, I guess, but it's a misnomer... Sorry to be so pedantic.

On the other hand, the scale armor depicted in #3, particularly Conan's, didn't look right. Maybe it was the angularity of the individual scales, maybe it was the strange shoulder components, which looked like mail per se, but didn't seem realistic.

Here's a good site on making your own:
Lorica Squamata

[Orkin]

Schultz mostly depicts scale mail, even when REH specifies chain mail.

IH don't get me wrong I'm with you on this. It might be neat to have a story-by-story breakdown of the armor as described by REH, especially the terms used. How many people have an image of some of the helmets described...

[Forkbeard]

I'm trying to develope some garb peices, hopefully whith pattern and instructions, from the Hyborean world. Mostly from the Conan Comics and the other art. I'm starting with a suede kilt. I'm going to try to burn some kind of pattern around the edges with a wood burner. It should look like the kilts he's wearing in the new comics.
After the kilt I'm out of ideas. Like the man himself, I mostly fight shirtless in either a Kilt or some kind if pants. Anybody have any futher ideas for me?
FB

[Orkin]

I remember seeing mention of a book (here? somewhere else?) that REH may have used when envisioning ancient/medieval costume. Can anyone tell me what that might have been??? Thanks!

[Freebooter]

Hey Forkbeard,
You were speaking of your ideas and asking for ours. I too like thinking of Conan and his world. I like the descriptions of when he was a wondering man seeking adventure and fortune, wearing nothing but a "cheap tunic and high-strapped sandals strapped high up on his ankles. Under the tunic he wore either leather or silken loin cloths.

Remember that in Conan's and REH's Hyborean world anything goes as far as what was worn and carried. From the descriptions of arms and armor and clothing in those stories you get the idea that anything goes, sort of like you might find almost any sort of clothing, weapons and armor from many real historical era's.

So if you want to get into REH's Hyborean world as a hobby then you don't have to be super authentic as for clothing, arms and armor for any one era or culture the way you do with reeanacting of real historical cultures and eras.

So as for my ideas, here is a cheap and simple thing I had made recently: Remember REH's description of Conan in "Tower of the Elephant", "God in the Bowl", etc.? With those descriptions in mind I recently had a tunic made of 100% heavy linen, sort of an "Oatmeal Tan" color. It is just a loose, simple, and comfortable tunic with a round head hole, loose sleaves that that come to right past my elbows, and with the bottom seam to my knees. I ordered some Roman Caligae sandals (they fit REH's sandal description). I might order some Deepeeka Greek sandals, which are similar but without the Roman hobnails. I have a wide Celtic belt and a belt pouch I ordered from Museum Replicas, Ltd., and I have a dagger and a Viking sword. If I want a helmet I can put on my Viking helmet. I ordered the sword and helmet from MRL also. In the MRL catolog I saw a "Transitional Viking Sword" that reminds me of something Conan might have carried.

Anyway, when I get in one of my moods, especially if I am reading Conan stories, I put all this on and just have fun right here at home. It might be silly to some but I enjoy it.
Well, that is my Conan outfit for what it is worth. Now I am going to make me a loin cloth soon.
Take care,
Freebooter

[Ironhand]

Actually, REH does describe "national" garb and "national" armor. But those are for the nationals, not for Conan.

[Freebooter]

Hey Ironhand,
You are correct in that too. Besides a few national type clothing and armor ensembles such as the grey Nemedian "Adventurer's" mail, Aquilonian ring-mail......"it also describes a few private outfits' garb, such as the mail armor of the "Freecompanions".
Sometime back I posted a list of all of REH's descriptions of Conan in the various stories from three books: "The Coming of the Cimmerian", "Hour of the Dragon", and "Conan the Freebooter" (these mainly from the ones that REH wrote in that book) and a couple of others like his description of the pirates in "Iron Shadows in the Moonlight". If anyone is interested, let me know and I will repost them.
Freebooter

[Orkin]

I remember seeing mention of a book (here? somewhere else?) that REH may have used when envisioning ancient/medieval costume. Can anyone tell me what that might have been??? Thanks!

Got something here:
Costumer's Manifesto
This may give you an idea about what REH was visualizing for the Hyborian Age...

[Argrath Dragonspear]

A really good set of books for costume ideas are the Wargames Research Group books. There are several sets covering Greek, Roman, Viking/Saxon etc. The Roman one in particular has Sassanid Persian dress, Byzantine dress, various barbarian tribe clothing and armour/weapons. I used them a lot for reference when painting my wargame figures.

[Orkin]

There's also the Osprey series, but it is interesting to see what early 20th century perceptions were like...

[J-Star]

I've been looking all over the internet at sites that sell medieval and rennaisance clothing and costuming, but I haven't found anything that fits the description in my mind's eye of what Hyborian adventurer might wear, especially a barbarian. Can anyone help me out?

[Ironhand]

Go for Viking garb.

[Freebooter]

J-Star,
I agree with Ironhand; go with Nordic or celtic garb(both are similar to each other), and that type of garb would best describe the people in the northern countries of the Hyborean world in my opinion. Of course Conan dreamed of his life in one story in which he remembered in his youth wearing a panther-skin loin cloth, etc.. I am sure he and his people had other clothing in linen and wools. In winter months I am sure they wore woolen tunics, trousers, boots of some type, fur coats and head gear, etc...
In some of REH's stories when Conan was a young adventurer, he wore simple tunics and sandals, etc.. I had a tunic made of heavy linen and got some Roman Caligai sandals, which I figure are a close match for what REH described as; "High-strapped sandals, strapped high on the ankle." In other stories he is wearing more medieval sounding things, even some of the helmets and armor REH names are directly from our medieval age. As far as describing other charactors, REH describes them in a variety of things. You could go to modern day middle east and the deserts and see some of his descriptions of desert dwellers in person. In Iron Shadows of the Moon for example he describes the pirates and their captain and their garb. Those descriptions could easily fit in our own pirate age (16-1700s) in the Caribbean Sea.
For further reference of Conan's garb and some other charactors, I wrote down REH's descriptions of Conan and posted them on the Conan in Literature forum, in three different threads; "REH's Conan's Descriptions, Pt I, II, and III.. When I posted them I hit keys wrong so they look like Pt. I, Pt. I, and Pt. Iii.

What I am trying to say is in my opinion, it seems that REH gleaned his desriptions of Conan and other charactors directly from various ages, places, and cultures in our real history of our world and societies.
Take care,
Freebooter

[J-Star]

Thanks for the info guys!

I should've thought've Viking clothing in the first place, since the Vikings were descended from the Nordheimr.

I for one am fascinated with all the parallels between REH's Hyborian Age and all the cultures of real-world history. The Hyborian kingdoms themselves are the ancestors of medieval Europe, but every place I've looked for medieval clothing is really Rennaisance clothing which, in my mind's eye, is ANYTHING but Hyborian. There's also this one site that' supposed to be Celtic clothing but it's really Rennaisance clothing w/ Celtic embroidery, which doesn't look anything like what the Celts, let alone Cimmerians, would've worn.

I'll do some searches on "Viking clothing" instead of "medieval clothing" and see what I can find.