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#1 James Palmer

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 03:02 PM

Small press publisher Airship 27 Productions produced an anthology featuring an American version of Solomon Kane.

Gideon Cain chronicles the adventures of a puritan during the Salem witch trials who learns that a demon named Azazel was partly responsible for that tragedy, and sets out to track the demon down and destroy it. From the product description on Amazon:

Edited by Ron Fortier & Van Allen Plexico - Here are seven new tales of Puritan swordsman, Gideon Cain the Demon Hunter by Scott Harris, Brian Zavitz, I. A. Watson, K.G. McAbee, James Palmer, David Wright and Van Allen Plexico. In the tradition of Robert E. Howard's "Solomon Kane," here is swashbuckling action at its finest. Cover art by Rob Davis & Shane Evans. Introduction by Kurt Busiek.

I know some of you here aren't keen on pastiches, but this is pretty cool, guys. You can check it out on Amazon here:

http://www.amazon.co...97605413&sr=1-1

or get the pdf download for just $3 at www.airship27hangar.com.

Thanks,

James
"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind," the borderer said, still staring somberly at the Cimmerian. "Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately triumph." --Robert E. Howard, "Beyond the Black River"

James Palmer
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http://www.jamesmpalmer.com/sf

#2 amster

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:00 PM

"In the tradition of Robert E. Howard's 'Solomon Kane'"? You changed the the first name from one biblical name to another, you merely changed the spelling of the last name, and you changed his Nationality from English to early American. And you changed his outfit from black to brown. Other than that, he's the exact same character. That doesn't sound like a pastiche to me. It sounds like a rip-off. Wow. Both Van Helsing and Vampire Hunter D obviously "borrowed" a lot from REH, but I've never seen it done this brazenly. If there's more to it than your brief descriptions and what I found on google (basically the same thing) reveal, then feel free to correct me. You guys will be lucky if Paradox/Solomon Kane LLC. doesn't sue you for trademark infringement. I would.
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Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

#3 Tex

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:11 PM

Way back in August at The Blog That Time Forgot, Al "Taranaich" Harron talked about this...

The Fine Line Between Homage and Ripoff

Tex
(and here's a link to David Wright's blog about it.)

#4 amster

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 06:11 PM

Way back in August at The Blog That Time Forgot, Al "Taranaich" Harron talked about this...

The Fine Line Between Homage and Ripoff

Tex


Not really "my creation," though -- I was part of the group that made him up, but not the driving force, nor one of the writers who's done stories about him. I'm one co-creator among many. Van Plexico and some friends wanted to do a Solomon Kane-like character, and we wound up talking it back and forth on an e-mail list, and I made a bunch of suggestions as to how they could get what they wanted while making him distinctly a different character at heart. I did suggest different names, as you'll see if you read my introduction to the book, but Van liked "Cain," so he went with it. But I pushed for the Salem connection, the family, the ways a post-Cromwell Puritan would be very, very different from a pre-Cromwell Puritan like Kane (Puritanism underwent a big change in that hundred years) and suchlike.


Wow! I totally stand corrected. And all this time the only thing that kept me from trying my hand at becoming a professional writer was that I felt that I lacked the capacity to come up with my own original ideas and characters. But Mr. Busiek and the creators of Gideon Cain have shown me the light! Coming up with original characters is easy! Now nothing will stop me from realizing my literary ambitions. Take a look at my newest creation who, in the tradition of Gideon Cain, was created on an internet forum! Your comments and critiques are most welcome!

Samuel Caine is a Puritan Swordsman, and Englishman who grew up in Leiden, Netherlands and emigrated to the Plymouth Colony. There, after several hostile encounters with the pagan natives, he devotes his life to battling evil in all its forms and bringing the Word of God to the indigenous population of the Americas. While he dresses all in black and has a wide brimmed hat, he has black facial hair which makes his appearance totally different. In addition to his trusted rapier, he is also armed with the Staff of Wotin, a magical walking stick that was brought over to the New World by Leif Erickson and given to Caine by a Wampanoag medicine man named Massasquanto.
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Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

#5 Libaax

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:14 PM


Way back in August at The Blog That Time Forgot, Al "Taranaich" Harron talked about this...

The Fine Line Between Homage and Ripoff

Tex


Not really "my creation," though -- I was part of the group that made him up, but not the driving force, nor one of the writers who's done stories about him. I'm one co-creator among many. Van Plexico and some friends wanted to do a Solomon Kane-like character, and we wound up talking it back and forth on an e-mail list, and I made a bunch of suggestions as to how they could get what they wanted while making him distinctly a different character at heart. I did suggest different names, as you'll see if you read my introduction to the book, but Van liked "Cain," so he went with it. But I pushed for the Salem connection, the family, the ways a post-Cromwell Puritan would be very, very different from a pre-Cromwell Puritan like Kane (Puritanism underwent a big change in that hundred years) and suchlike.


Wow! I totally stand corrected. And all this time the only thing that kept me from trying my hand at becoming a professional writer was that I felt that I lacked the capacity to come up with my own original ideas and characters. But Mr. Busiek and the creators of Gideon Cain have shown me the light! Coming up with original characters is easy! Now nothing will stop me from realizing my literary ambitions. Take a look at my newest creation who, in the tradition of Gideon Cain, was created on an internet forum! Your comments and critiques are most welcome!

Samuel Caine is a Puritan Swordsman, and Englishman who grew up in Leiden, Netherlands and emigrated to the Plymouth Colony. There, after several hostile encounters with the pagan natives, he devotes his life to battling evil in all its forms and bringing the Word of God to the indigenous population of the Americas. While he dresses all in black and has a wide brimmed hat, he has black facial hair which makes his appearance totally different. In addition to his trusted rapier, he is also armed with the Staff of Wotin, a magical walking stick that was brought over to the New World by Leif Erickson and given to Caine by a Wampanoag medicine man named Massasquanto.




In the process of writing my Gideon Cain story, I discovered and became a fan of Solomon Kane, the Puritan avenger featured in several stories by famed pulp writer Robert E. Howard (creator of Conan the Barbarian). Upon reading The Savage Tales of Solomon Kane, I discovered that Howard had composed several poems that told their own stories. Taking a cue from that, I also composed a poem that recapped Gideon Cain's backstory.


From the blog of David Wright like he didnt know Kane when he was writing Cain....

Edited by Libaax, 13 February 2011 - 08:15 PM.


#6 Tex

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #1,766,018 in Books


The sales are obviously not there, thus one of the "creators" starting this topic to pimp the product.

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#7 James Palmer

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:25 PM

OK, guys. I didn't mean to start a flame war. Here's what makes Cain different from Kane.

He starts out in the American colonies and travels all over the world. Kane tramped around Africa. He has angelic "runes" given to him in a vision tattooed on his person and engraved into his English mortuary sword, which he uses to dispatch evil. His father fought in Cromwell's New Model Army and he bears the weaponry and the acoutrements of one of those soldiers, stuff that belonged to his father. Here's the press release:

BUCKLE UP SWASHBUCKLERS!!!

Airship 27 Productions is thrilled to bring pulp fans a great new hero in the tradition of Robert E. Howard?s Solomon Kane.

During the Salem Witch Trials, British born Puritan soldier, Gideon Cain aided the inquisitions believing them to be just. Soon thereafter, God revealed to Cain that he and the righteous citizens of Salem had been duped by a cunning, ageless demon from Hell knowns as Azazel. Taking up his sword, a blade inscribed with holy runes, Cain bids farewell to his family and departs on his sacred mission. Now he wanders the earth destroying evil in whatever shape or guise it appears; his one consuming goal, to find and destroy Azazel.

Here are seven exciting, action-packed tales of Gideon Cain the Demon Hunter by Scott Harris, Brian Zavitz, Ian Watson, James Palmer, David Wright, K.G. McAbee and Van Allen Plexico. Features a cover and interior illustrations by artist Rob Davis and a special introduction by co-creator, Kurt Busiek. (Marvels ? Astroy City)

Airship 27 Productions ? Pulp Fiction for a New Generation!

Available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon and other regular book distrutors.

At the Airship 27 Discount Store ? (http://www.gopulp.info/) & for all digital readers as a downloadable PDF at (http://www.airship27hangar.com).

Please give this a chance before you lambaste it out of hand.
"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind," the borderer said, still staring somberly at the Cimmerian. "Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately triumph." --Robert E. Howard, "Beyond the Black River"

James Palmer
Freelance Copywriter, Journalist
http://www.jamesmpalmer.com/sf

#8 Taran

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:20 PM

He starts out in the American colonies and travels all over the world. Kane tramped around Africa.


Kane tramped around far more places than Africa, if the short stories are to be believed...
"It has fallen upon me, now and again in my sojourns through the world, to ease various evil men of their lives." - Solomon Kane

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#9 amster

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:43 PM

OK, guys. I didn't mean to start a flame war.


No one is flaming, just giving you our honest an unbiased assessment of your creation.

Here's what makes Cain different from Kane. He starts out in the American colonies and travels all over the world. Kane tramped around Africa.

It doesn't take a great stretch of imagination to go from adventures in Africa to adventures all over the world.

He has angelic "runes" given to him in a vision tattooed on his person and engraved into his English mortuary sword, which he uses to dispatch evil.

...and Kane dispatches evil with his trusty rapier and his magical Staff of Solomon, which is also covered in runes, not to mention the fact that rune-covered magical swords are virtually ubiquitous in fantasy fiction.

His father fought in Cromwell's New Model Army and he bears the weaponry and the acoutrements of one of those soldiers, stuff that belonged to his father.

...and Kane sailed with Francis Drake and fought alongside Richard Greeville. You merely took bits from Kane's biography, changed it up a bit, and attributed it to Cain's father.

During the Salem Witch Trials, British born Puritan soldier, Gideon Cain aided the inquisitions believing them to be just.

Its impossible to think of the New England Colonies and the Puritans without thinking of the Salem Witch Trials, by far the region's most infamous episode.. It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to come up with such a backstory.

Soon thereafter, God revealed to Cain that he and the righteous citizens of Salem had been duped by a cunning, ageless demon from Hell knowns as Azazel.

You took the well known name "Azrael" and changed a couple of letters.

Taking up his sword, a blade inscribed with holy runes, Cain bids farewell to his family and departs on his sacred mission.

Kane's family is never metioned. You merely took one characteristic and changed it to its own opposite.

Now he wanders the earth destroying evil in whatever shape or guise it appears; his one consuming goal, to find and destroy Azazel.

You basically took the same mission and added an "ultimate goal" at the end.

This creation is "unique" and "different" in the same way that Ice Ice Baby is a different from Under Pressure. There's not a single thing original or different about it. You merely take one of his more superficial characteristics and substitute it with another similar but slightly different characteristic. Its neither original nor particularly hard.

After the time that the Great Deluge Swallowed the Earth, and before the time that the city states grew along the Mesopotamian plain, there was an age beyond imagination, when fabulous empires rose and fell against the onslaught of savage barbarian tribes. Out of the chaos arose Crixton, the Gallian, a vagabond, a mercenary, a pirate, whose ferocious savagery was matched only by his insatiable appetite for wine, women, and adventure.

...its sort of like changing the pieces on a Mr. Potato Head. Sure, it may look slightly different, but at the end of the day its still a Mr. Potato Head.
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Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--

#10 Skullface

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:09 AM

Hey I just came up with anew Berckinridge Aakins....he is kinda a cowboy mixed with paul bunyan type.... :rolleyes:
Wait how about Bran Mac Morning..... :P
He likes to hang around in wheat fields...in Scotland... :P

#11 Taranaich

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:22 AM

He starts out in the American colonies and travels all over the world. Kane tramped around Africa.


In addition to Africa, we know that Kane's adventured in England, Germany (the setting of two stories and a fragment,) France ("The Blue Flame of Vengeance,") Spain, and the Mediterranean. We know he served under Sir Richard Grenville and Sir Francis Drake on voyages which went all over the map. He's strongly hinted to have been in the Far East.

Just sayin'...

Edited by Taranaich, 14 February 2011 - 03:08 PM.

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#12 Almuric

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 02:37 AM

amsterdamaged: Actually, Azazel is a perfectly legitimate demon name from Hebrew folklore and the Biblical Apocrypha. Azrael is the one of the names of the Angel of Death in Islam.

But the rest is very on-target.
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"

Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."


--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard

#13 daniel

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 05:13 PM

wow. i searched for "solomon kane pasteich anthology" thinking that something should be done about such a thing, and now this...

what possible reason was there to avoid writing stories about the original kane? copyright? well, conan was and is done to death and all is well in the world. so why this...?
:huh:

#14 Dave the Rage

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

wow. i searched for "solomon kane pasteich anthology" thinking that something should be done about such a thing, and now this...

what possible reason was there to avoid writing stories about the original kane? copyright? well, conan was and is done to death and all is well in the world. so why this...?
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Yeah, writing about the original Kane should have been done by these guys as they are obviuosly professionals in the end. I think it was a deffo attempt to get around the copyright issue. I loved Thrud the Barbarian as a youth and it was a pastiche by Crichlow on Conan as he has said in the past and infact meets him in a story arc. So my point is, just call a spade a spade and have done with it, even if you honoured the fallen creator in your works with some writeups on REH then this would be cool, but just to RIP it off is typical bored comic designers looking for an angle to tell a remake, sort of like Hollywood in todays market! Then again you have just done a more obvious job of ripping off and others like Vampire hunter D and many others did'nt.

I like my SK the Howard way and all others can go back to the firey depths of Hades anyway :)
?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

Ive written lots of Solomon Kanes...I just don't try to make money off them

#16 Dave the Rage

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

Ive written lots of Solomon Kanes...I just don't try to make money off them

I too have written some stories myself for fanzines in my yout, I'm sure some have said, 'obvious rip off of Conan' etc, but again as you say I never made a dime. I have a character that is based in the Hyborian world though that I want to do a webcomic about but cant seem to get any advice either way if I can do it? AoC Hyborian based webcomic was the initial idea, then again probably easier to get around the meriad of laws. :)
?I do not accept as matter of belief certain things in this history, or rather fiction; for some things are diabolical superstitions, some are poetical inventions, some have the semblance of truth, some have not; and some are meant for the entertainment of fools.? Book of Leinster ? 12th century

#17 Kane

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:33 PM

I mentioned in another thread that I've read Gideon Cain and that I liked it.
Yes, there is a very, VERY, strong influence of SK in the series. But no one is trying to deny that.
But, imo, there is a difference between the characters that does make Cain a unique creation of the writers.
Now I have to admit to being bias. Ron Fortier is a friend of mine and we've communicated with each other for years.
So I was looking forward to this even before it was published.

I do encourage the members to give it qa read beforte making final judgement,
"I vanquished Law once, I'll conquer yet again--
And force upon Mankind the Freedom he fears--
And dead gods I will again defy?"