25 replies to this topic

[Hawkbrother]

Just read about Amy Winehouse's death. Another talent unable to overcome personal demons.
She was 27, same age as Janis Joplin when she came to a tragic end. I've been on a bit of a Joplin kick lately, saw a bio of her by Ann Angel in the library's new books display. Now reading Pearl, the biography by Ellis Amburn. And have watched the movie Festival Express. For those not familiar with that ,it is a film about a tour by train across Canada in 1970 which featured musicians like Joplin, the Grateful Dead, the Band, Ian and Sylvia, and The Flying Burrito Brothers that stopped and gave concerts in larger cities.
And of course listening to her music.
Joplin lived a life of excess you might say, large amounts of drugs, alcohol, sex. Indeed Kris Kristofferson might have had her in mind when he wrote some lyrics to his song "Billy Dee" -"it may be that some souls are bigger than a body's ought to be".
Joplin grew up in a small, provincial Texas town. Cannot help but think of another great talent who grew up in a small Texas town and whose personal demons too brought him to an early, tragic end.

Edited by Hawkbrother, 25 July 2011 - 08:04 PM.

[NobleSavage]

it this for a.winehouse or j.joplin ?

anyway...i heard there was a film coming up on her...any news ?

[sonny sixshooter]

However much I dislike Motley Crüe, I found a huge amount of respect for Tommy Lee, when he said: "Amy Winehouse died. That's a lifestyle choice. The 87 who were murdered in Oslo Norway. That's ******* tragic."

[spyderkb]

'Fraid I agree with Tommy Lee on this one.  My reaction to hearing about AW from a co-worker was "oh." Heartless?  Possibly.  But I'm old enough now to no longer be moved by flagrant disregard for one's own life.  Yup, this applies to 'ol Two Gun, too.  I feel great sadness over REH's suicide, but looked at cold and hard, it's entirely a selfish feeling. I'm sad because *I* won't get to read those wonderful stories he denied the world by taking his own life. Same sentiment for Amy Winehouse, Kurt Cobain, Sid Vicious, Jimmy Hendrix, Janis Joplin, etc. ad nauseum.

[grumpy old man]Stupid f**ing kids[/grumpy old man]

I wish that life could be divided into tangible 'credits' so that the remaining decades of those who choose to end their lives (so early and so full of promise), could be given to those who would treasure the extra time.  Children with cancer, perhaps.

Edited by spyderkb, 26 July 2011 - 04:09 AM.

[Fierro]

That's the best statement I'v e heard yet on the subject. And from Tommy Lee, no less. Good on ya!

[drush9999]

I would expand that statement to the people dying of starvation on the Horn of Africa too. Don't think it's getting enough press at the moment (at least in the UK).

[Mikey_C]

Actually it's got absolutely nothing to do with Norway, the Horn of Africa or (for crying out!) "children with cancer". I have been depressed by the mean-spirited reactions to this talented young woman's death.

The fact is, we don't even know what killed her yet. Personally, I sincerely hope it WASN'T drugs, as the sound of all those smug soapboxes collapsing at once would be music to my ears!

As REH's life demonstrates, lot of creative geniuses are tortured souls. Some of them "self-medicate" - and so what? Does that give us, the complacent nobodies whose humdrum lives are enriched by their art, the right to cast stones and make petty judgments? And, if we do, does that really make us feel any better about ourselves?

As for Tommy Lee; how many headlines would he make? Put it down to professional jealousy!

I only own one AW album, btw, (the wrong one, I suspect). I bought out of curiosity from a bargain bin - and I've never been able to get into it. I prefer Billie Holliday, but that's another person to get grumpy about so let her rest in peace as well.

[Fierro]

Actually it's got absolutely nothing to do with Norway, the Horn of Africa or (for crying out!) "children with cancer". I have been depressed by the mean-spirited reactions to this talented young woman's death.

The fact is, we don't even know what killed her yet. Personally, I sincerely hope it WASN'T drugs, as the sound of all those smug soapboxes collapsing at once would be music to my ears!

As REH's life demonstrates, lot of creative geniuses are tortured souls. Some of them "self-medicate" - and so what? Does that give us, the complacent nobodies whose humdrum lives are enriched by their art, the right to cast stones and make petty judgments? And, if we do, does that really make us feel any better about ourselves?

As for Tommy Lee; how many headlines would he make? Put it down to professional jealousy!

I only own one AW album, btw, (the wrong one, I suspect). I bought out of curiosity from a bargain bin - and I've never been able to get into it. I prefer Billie Holliday, but that's another person to get grumpy about so let her rest in peace as well.

I don't think there's anything mean-spirited about acknowledging that AW lived in a manner that pretty much ensures a flameout. There's nothing tragic about that. Just as there was nothing tragic about Lane Frost being killed by a bull at the Cheyenne rodeo. Occupational hazard. Sad? Sure. Tragic? No. I think that's the point Tommy Lee was making and I think it's spot on.

[MoeTheBarman]

I think Tommy Lee is lucky his own lifestyle didn't catch up with him...

[Fierro]

I think Tommy Lee is lucky his own lifestyle didn't catch up with him...

Therefore, he knows whereof he speaks. I don't see his statement as condemnation, just a recognition that junkies die. My favorite artist, Steve Earle, should be dead. He got arrested and got clean and I'm really glad he did. If he'd died in 1992, it wouldn't have been anything but a sad waste. The second half of his career is proof that creativity and self-destructiveness may frequently cohabit, but one does not have to feed the other.

REH, too, made his choice. At least he didn't impose his suicidal depression on innocents, as often happens.

[Mikey_C]

For me, the tragedy arose from the inevitability of what happened. It was like watching a road traffic accident in slow-motion. People get stuck in cycles they can't get out of. We all do it to some extent, but once certain substances become involved its next to meaningless to talk about "free will". I've been reading a little book about the science of pleasure recently, and it points out that not even the "Great Beast" Aleister Crowley could kick heroin, and there was a man who spent his whole life perfecting his willpower.

The other thing is fame. We put these people under immense pressures to live up to our expectations and every move they make is blown up big and scrutinised. Even their physical appearance - have you ever looked at a woman's mag and seen how bitchy they are about the celebs?

Personal relationships become skewed as all sorts of hangers-on start to swarm around them, attracted by the scent of fame and money. Among the parasites are those bearing the path to easy escape - and how many of us could honestly dodge that slippery slope? A chance to release the pressure and tension for just a short while ... and then some more ... and then some more ...

So we take someone who's quite normal, (although maybe not the most stable to start off with - which is why they weren't content with a life in middle management) and then we throw them into this mad media circus that society has created for our entertainment, so we can gloat and pontificate as the hairline crack in their character is forced wide by the pressure and they fall apart in front of us. Then we say "Tut, tut, look at what they've done to themselves, well they're not getting any of my sympathy, not like all those dead children in Africa who I don't really give a monkey's about anyway..."

Honestly - if that's not a modern-day tragedy, I don't know what is.

[Dark Mark]

I find it poignant to hear of yet another young and creative talent die so young regardless of the circumstances.

[Konorg]

'Fraid I agree with Tommy Lee on this one. My reaction to hearing about AW from a co-worker was "oh." Heartless? Possibly. But I'm old enough now to no longer be moved by flagrant disregard for one's own life. Yup, this applies to 'ol Two Gun, too. I feel great sadness over REH's suicide, but looked at cold and hard, it's entirely a selfish feeling. I'm sad because *I* won't get to read those wonderful stories he denied the world by taking his own life. Same sentiment for Amy Winehouse, Kurt Cobain, Sid Vicious, Jimmy Hendrix, Janis Joplin, etc. ad nauseum.

[grumpy old man]Stupid f**ing kids[/grumpy old man]

I wish that life could be divided into tangible 'credits' so that the remaining decades of those who choose to end their lives (so early and so full of promise), could be given to those who would treasure the extra time. Children with cancer, perhaps.

Now when it comes to thsi sort of think I take the anton LaVey approach to it with Ol Two Guns himself Suicide should not be an option unles life has become so unbearable that Death is tge only release from the pain.
And for him I truly believe that it was his only way to escape the pain that life had become,understand they didn't have the head shirnks back then with the ability and the meds to help a person get through it and get better his death is and was atrue tradgey. Miss Winehouse on the other hand had access to help she didn't want it,so her death was far from a tragdey it was selfish

[NobleSavage]

every death is a tragedy and every death is just another line in the news...depends on the viewer's attachement...

anyway...she must have had someone that loved her (parents maybe ? at least one person that has been close to her..)
and that's more than enough...

i don't mean it as it may sound...but why would her (or anybody's) death mean more than the casual junky's in the subway or that one schoolmate's that shot himself with his father's shotgun ?

all this "famous-persons" mourning is getting really "plastic-fake"...it's not like she invented penicilline or anything...i lost my grandmother last year and noone talked about it in the news or all over the net...amy winehouse was abusing substances and she died...dimebag darrel's death was a real tragedy...the man got shot by a psycho during a concert...anyway..it's always a pity when people die in that a young age ,as it's also stupid when they die cause of drugs

[spyderkb]

And for him I truly believe that it was his only way to escape the pain that life had become,understand they didn't have the head shirnks back then with the ability and the meds to help a person get through it and get better his death is and was atrue tradgey. Miss Winehouse on the other hand had access to help she didn't want it,so her death was far from a tragdey it was selfish

Good point about the lack of shrinks back then. Who's more tragic? Who's more worthy of sympathy?  Meh - no sense in trying to rate these kind of things. They chose their road (we all do} and that's that. At the end of the day, we're just their fans: consumers of their product.

[Mikey_C]

Just because somebody's made some records, it doesn't mean they owe us anything. Just an observation.

[ThuleanWarrior]

And just because someone is famous doesn't mean we owe them anything or that they are any more important than anyone else. I fully agree with Tommy Lee's assessment.


At any rate, notice that here we are talking about one dead druggy instead of the 90+ people that were killed by that religious fundamentalist.

Say the above though, that is not what I really mean. Of course this is a thread about her. I mean that soon everyone outside of Norway will forget about those 90+ people and people will still talk about Winehouse.

Edited by ThuleanWarrior, 28 July 2011 - 03:08 AM.

[sonny sixshooter]

Say the above though, that is not what I really mean. Of course this is a thread about her. I mean that soon everyone outside of Norway will forget about those 90+ people and people will still talk about Winehouse.

You are probably right, although I hope not. Hasn't she only made one song that really made it big? I truly hope that the mass murder in Norway is more important.