1290 replies to this topic

[Eamon]

I think the thing that folks seem to glaze over is that Conan is hard sell of a character these days. For better or worse, he's a cliche and I think this will pose a problem in getting serious movie makers interest.

I for one would love a Conan TV series like a cross between Game of Thrones and Spartacus. Though I suppose Kull would be a a better choice given Kull isn't as globe trotting as Conan. But in an ideal world....

I think he has been made a cliche because of the poor versions of him out there, either the REH ones (flim / cartoon) or the knock-offs (He Man, etc). So say Conan or swords and sorcery and people thing big dumb musclehead fighting a giant snake for a bird with big knockers. We all know there is much more to REH and the genre than that, but it has yet to be treated with anything like the respect of LOTR, GOT, etc

Do you really think He-Man had a detremental effect on Conan then? I don't think so at all given He-Man was for kids and was defferent enough to stand on it's own. Plus He-Man was simply great and inspired many to seek out Conan.
I personally would put it down to things like Conan the Destroyer and movies like Barbarians, Death Stalkers and Beastmasters or any of the many really bad sword and Sorcery flicks. Actually outside of Conan the Barbarian, I cannot think of any sword and sorcery that isn't hysterically bad.
Sword and sorcery has never been taken seriously as a genre for very good reasons. It's often very sexist with dated views on other races of people and the ideology that might makes right.

I think Dark Horse handle Conan in the way I think he should be handled. I see a far more interesting Conan in those comics and the story telling is modernised making it a deeper more interesting world.

[gungnir_1972]

I think Kurt Busiek and Cary Nord were great at Darkorse.I agree..I like what I have read.

[Taran]

Review/retrospective up on Black Gate about the film that pretty much reflects my own feelings . That is, highly unimpressed; so unimpressed, in fact, that it's hard to even get angry about it.

Edited by Taran, 20 June 2012 - 12:06 AM.

[JohnitoZ]

I would have to say that the Black Gate review also seemed to reflect my own own impression of the movie. He liked the same bits (esp Momoa, the head/password and the key swallowing) and disliked the same ones (esp Rose McGowan's performance) as I did. I didn't mind Tamara nearly as much as he apparently did though.

[thedarkman]

I did not care for the review that much. Hard to believe anyone would spend so much time and energy to put down the blu ray version of a movie they never liked in the first place. The critics universally bashed it, Conan fans were for the most part disappointed, and the general public just didn't care one way or another. Why would anyone want to kick this dead carcass one more time seems pointless. It's kinda like beating on a handicapped person; an easy target. And maybe a little, wee bit classless.

By the way, I liked the film, and thought there was a lot of good things that could found amongst the, er, not so good things. Oh well, to each their own.

[1980conanfan]

I tend to disagree. It may be unfounded but I think the big guys are on the take. I'll take the small guys word for it over theirs any day.

Maybe I am just jaded from video game reviews though where we know that to be the case.

Agreed. Roger Ebert gave Zookeeper 3 stars...

....not to mention he liked "Conan The Destroyer" better than Milius' "Conan The Barbarian".

That is just insane.

By Crom, he must DIE! The 1st Conan is one of the greatest films of all time!!!!!!

[thatericn]

Here's the video review for CtB-2011 from Red Letter Media: http://redlettermedi...-the-barbarian/

Snarky and goofy at the same time... The actual meat of the Conan review starts at the 9:30 mark.

[deuce]

Despite my early misgivings, I think Momoa is a cool, bad-a$$ actor. I sincerely hope he has a long and successful career. The best thing to come out of the CtB11 debacle, IMO.

[Kang]

I aggree with most of the posts here. The screenplay stunk, Jason Mamoa was a great Conan, much more articulate than Arnold. A little too much cgi and it didn't have the epic feel of the original Millius movie. The score was avarage, get the guy who did the Age of Conan score, that ones pretty good. Casting for Tamara was off, she's a good actress but this wasn't her best roll, and this is a Conan movie she was way over-dressed. Overall enjoyed it and will watch it many more times. By the way did it bother anyone else that Khalar Zym had perfectly straight and really white teeth?

[Ironhand]

By the way did it bother anyone else that Khalar Zym had perfectly straight and really white teeth?

He made unearthly, soul-buggering bargains with dental demons of the Outer Darkness for those teeth.

Edited by Ironhand, 13 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[DanielLin]

I aggree with most of the posts here. The screenplay stunk, Jason Mamoa was a great Conan, much more articulate than Arnold. A little too much cgi and it didn't have the epic feel of the original Millius movie. The score was avarage, get the guy who did the Age of Conan score, that ones pretty good. Casting for Tamara was off, she's a good actress but this wasn't her best roll, and this is a Conan movie she was way over-dressed. Overall enjoyed it and will watch it many more times. By the way did it bother anyone else that Khalar Zym had perfectly straight and really white teeth?

I just bought the 3D blu ray for 10 bucks from the bargain bin today, and watched it again tonight. I agree with you, I think Jason Mamoa was pretty good as Conan. The action scenes are actually pretty good, Mamoa's sword plays, movements and the brooding looks are kind of in line with Howard's vision of Conan, and the actions are fun to watch.

I think the biggest problem with the film, is that the entire movie feels very disjointed in its story telling, it feels like a series of different big fights rather than a continuous story.

The second biggest problem is most of the characters are underdeveloped, and the locales in Hyboria unexplored. For example, the thief guy who helped Conan (can't remember his name) was not developed at all, and the city of the thieves only had a screen time of 10 seconds? What about the streets, the people and stuff? The lack of character background story and the lack of themes and exploration of places in Hyboria, really undercut the richness of Conan's world and stunted the story telling.

The third problem, is the screenplay and its structure. I actually read the movie novel by Michael Staple, and I thought the novel (this movie is based on), is actually quite decent, but somehow when it is implemented into the movie, the story telling didn't flow well.

In summary, I think the screenplay and the structuring of the movie didn't work out properly, the plot progression feels disjointed, the characters are underdeveloped, the various locations of Hyboria weren't explored (and feels empty), all of these factors makes the story telling of this movie not fulfilled.

To be honest, this movie probably would have turned out a lot better if they had spent more time and money on developing the the screenplay better.

Edited by DanielLin, 17 December 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[Lunatic]

I also thought the novel was decent and almost felt the need to read it to understand certain scenes in the movie. I really enjoyed the movie but also thinks it could have been made really really good, with more time to tell the story. More narration also would have helped here and there to let you know where in Hyboria you are and who lives there.

[Gamerstable Eric]

Unlike most (including all my friends who lambasted the film moments after they walked out of the theater opening night) I have always liked CtB11. Does it hold up to REH purity? No. Is it better than the 82 film? No.

What it is, is a decent sword and sorcery flick. As a child of the 80’s who grew up with Conan’82 and Destroyer (as well as turds like The Sword and Sorcerer, Krull and The Barbarian Brothers), I was pleased to see a high budget attempt.

I think that expectations were high, perhaps too high. Many people were expecting Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately CtB11 wasn’t an adaptation of a REH classic (unlike Tolkien and LOTR). It was an attempt at capturing the "feel" of something written by master story teller by third-rate Hollywood wordsmiths. With Momoa’s work on Game of Thrones (a largely non-speaking part), a show that many consider one of the best on TV, I know I was pumped for CtB11.

My main problem with CtB11 is that it was not really given a chance. I think that once the project was green lit that it was rushed into production. Nispel was a poor choice, not the worst choice but definitely not worthy of such an iconic character. Couple that with hack Hollywood writers whose claim to fame is Sahara and straight to DVD classics like The Crow: Wicked Prayer and Halloween: Resurrection and you have the recipe for mediocrity.

My impression of Momoa is that he did a good job with what he had. I am not sure how much freedom he was given (I will have to watch the commentary track), so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nichols was okay. I’d say the second best looking Conan-girl (Olivia d’Abo is hard to top) but her character could have been much more. I think that a modern audience (especially women) wouldn’t take a REH-esque buxom, pale skinned, trembling princess in a lead female role. The writers tried to make Tamara more of a modern female than is necessary for a Conan story. Like Momoa, I think she did the best with what she had.

McGowen and Lang were sad. McGowen looked like a cross between Ora Sing and Marilyn Manson (when I first saw her on the screen I thought “didn’t they break up a long time ago?"). Lang (who I call a poor man’s R. Lee Ermey) was out of his element.

Perlman (who I absolutely love) was horrible. He was mis-cast. Apparently the character was Mickey Rourke’s and was changed when Rourke backed out. Though I am not sure that he would have faired better in the role.

My overall scoring is this:
Sets/Backdrops – A+: The artwork was beautiful
Score: C: Not wowing or iconic like Poledouris, but passable
Acting – C- (Momoa B-): Lang is no James Earl Jones, for sure
Direction/Production – D: Sold Conan’s soul for 3D effects
Writing – F: 8^th grade lunch table D&D plot and too hip for Hyboria dialog

[Crom2006]

Here is my take on the film. The original movie starring Arnold Schwarzenegger may have not been too faithful to what Howard had in mind, but it was a good movie. It managed to turn a simple revenge plot into something spectacular. The film took its time with the storytelling and character introductions. Because of the right execution, us as the audience actually become attached to the characters and cared about them. Not to mention some great action scenes due to some of the cast being trained to use actual swords and beautiful cinematography that has a great combination of grasslands and deserts. And the best part of the film and real star is the flawless musical score by Basil Poledouris which tells the story for us. Now even though the original Conan was not that faithful to the stories, we can somewhat forgive that since they did not have the right technology yet.

As for the new Conan (sign), it had potential since it had the right technology, Jason Momoa, and a larger REH fanbase than ever before. But all it did was copy the original movie plot without the right depth and execution. With the old film's plot, Conan's Journey changes him for the better. He becomes more self aware, caring, stronger and wiser. He even makes a memorable confession towards the end of the film on how he is angry that most of his life involved too much fighting yet he still has the will to move on while in the new film, Conan's journey does not change him, not even a bit. While in the original film the supporting characters are memorable, in the new film I cannot even remember any of the supporting character's names. Not to mention most characters are pretty forgettable. Whats a generic damsel in distress who is in the new film only to look pretty compared to Valeria from the old film who was not just gorgeous, but was also funny, cunning, tough, and smart. Another example would be the main villain where Thusla Doom was great because of his cold personality and excellent voice. Not to mention Conan's grudge got more personal because he nearly had him killed and murdered Valeria, which makes the character seem even more sadistic than ever. But in the new film, the rivalry between the villain and Conan was pretty weak and not to mention the villain was too over the top and more generic. In the climax of the old film, even though they do not fight, the dark scenery, music and emotional impact made it effective where in the new film, it was just a cheesy fight scene with no emotional impact.

And speaking of over the top, some of the acting was even bad. While Jason Momoa and Ron Perlman were great, most of the cast is either too bland or too silly. I swear there is one scene in the film where Stephen Lang overacts so much that he does not notice he is drooling. However to be fair, Rose McGowan was okay. She was a bit creepy, but was a little too cliche at the same time.

And even the visuals in the new one are weak. Most of the time it looks like a bad video game. Also, while the old film had real locations and sets that were built, in this film, sometimes it looks like that us movie watchers are looking at a painting. Hell, even the giant tentacled monster in one scene looks more fake than a mechanical snake from 1982 which did not age well. Now even though the visual style looks faithful to the stories, it does help the fact that it looks too fake. I do not mind a stylized visual style which could work to resemble the comics (both marvel and Dark Horse) , but it has to be done right. Take lessons from other films like Sin City or 300.

But what most disappointed me was that it started out so well. Okay, Morgan Freeman may have been miscast as the narrator, but it was great to see what Conan's youth was like. It was violent, gritty, and a bit emotional especially since the relationship with his father is much stronger than the original movie. But the movie pissed on itself so fast after the first 20 minutes. Take about wasted potential. Plus, what was the point of all that build up to the mask when it did nothing towards the end of the movie? NOTHING!!

As for how faithful it is, it is not any more faithful than the old movie. At least the old movie tried since they added famous moments such as the tower of the snake (originally Tower of the Elephant), the crucifixion from "A Witch Shall be Born", and the famous scene from "Queen of the Black Coast" only it is Valeria instead of Belit. Even the character Valeria is from the stories. I don't know if Thusla Doom counts since he is a Kull character, but the world of Kull is connected to Conan's world. I will admit, Conan's birth on the battlefield in the new movie is what REH had in mind and Conan's personality is far more faithful to the stories than the Arnold movie. However, a mention of Tower of the Elephant was pointless since it did not drive the plot and people who are not familiar with Conan will not get the reference.

Final Verdict is a 4.5/10 for great performances from Jason Momoa and Ron Perlman, some cool fight scenes, and a great first 20 minutes which was not enough to save the film from some bad performances, weak visuals, some bad action scenes, forgettable characters (most of them are forgettable), are a extremely generic plot. Sorry for the long review, but that is how disappointed I am with this movie.



 

Edited by Crom2006, 20 April 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Lunatic]

Actually the mask caused the cave to crumble...lol. (Great defence). Also it brought back the witch and possibly made a hole in the bridge there with Conan and Tamara hanging on the chain. Still...these things happened really fast and you did not really realize stuff that the mask was doing. Even if it did absolutely nothing, that should have been emphazised the dissapointed Khalar who just put a giant tick on his head and got nothing...

I love the miliusfilm although while it was loosely based on Conanstories, that also sort of burned some bridges for adapting them. For instance Conan´s background as a slave pitfighter. Made the REH background more difficult if not impossible to apply. Or using up the name Valeria. Means you can´t use the Red Nails story unless you switch her for Belit or Sonya.

[Crom2006]

Actually the mask caused the cave to crumble...lol. (Great defence). Also it brought back the witch and possibly made a hole in the bridge there with Conan and Tamara hanging on the chain. Still...these things happened really fast and you did not really realize stuff that the mask was doing. Even if it did absolutely nothing, that should have been emphazised the dissapointed Khalar who just put a giant tick on his head and got nothing...

I love the miliusfilm although while it was loosely based on Conanstories, that also sort of burned some bridges for adapting them. For instance Conan´s background as a slave pitfighter. Made the REH background more difficult if not impossible to apply. Or using up the name Valeria. Means you can´t use the Red Nails story unless you switch her for Belit or Sonya.

Well, the plot about the mask was not that clear, if the villain was smart, why couldn't he just bring both his daughter and wife back to life in the climax? Hell, why not just create an army of zombies to kill Conan? The mask does have the power to bring back the dead right? Okay, so even though it did make the cave crumble, it still had no purpose since we were not able to see the mask's full capabilities.

Edited by Crom2006, 04 February 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[Lunatic]

I am no sorceror, but I guess that is why he needed the Tamara girl. But it looked like something did possess her there hanging from the chain. But yeah, even if the mask was just a tick on his head and a joke then that should have been made clear. However it is obvious that the mask made the earthquake. But magic is not all fun and games in the Conanuniverse either. Its not like the wizards are invincible or something.

In the 80´s Conan movies there were scenes reminescent of the REH stories, pastische, comics and Frazetta imagery but not a true adaption. In the Nispelmovie we get a whole new plot but still more in line or at least not contradicting the original stories. Actually I appreciate both movies and the Destroyer and Red Sonya films.

[gungnir_1972]

Kharlar Zym being more warlord than sorcerer was probably inept at using the mask,maybe he didn't have the skill required to do much of anything with it quickly and even if he did where does it say that the mask brings back life instantly or create zombies?If you pick up a sword or rifle or any weapon for that matter does that instantly make you an expert with it?Just because you wield it doesn't mean you'll be very effective with it.I can shoot a gun...doesnt mean I'll hit anything with it,I can drive a car,that doesn't mean I qualify for Nascar.

Kharlar had just aqquired the mask and hardly had ant time to learn to use it to the full extent of it's power.Still he was bringing his dead wife back..no small feat for any sorceror let alone one not fully trained or a novice in the magical arts.The mask was powerful...I like to think the more time Kharlar had with it the more powerful he would have become,in time maybe invincible,Kharlar being amatuer was the achilles heel to bring the mask down.

I'm a fan of the movie and like it just as much as 82,props could have been better,some scenes written differently or reworked to make more sense but really the only real glaring thing to me was the boat\warship battering ram.

I've said before I'd be much more enthusiastic about a 2011 sequel than LOC.Dont' get me wrong I'll go see it for sure but Arnold is way past his prime,his return to Conan should have happened years ago and it's too late now IMO. My cousin's kids are profesional wrestling fans and while I was watching it with them I noticed a few on there that were stars when I was a kid,seeing them now some of them looked ridiculous even for tv wrestling.

I hope that theres more to LOC than just nostalgia,I truly hope Shwarzenegger can pull it off.and to be honest to cap his run as the character so Jason or someone better can take his place.Conan 2011 was moving in the right direction...there are things to love or hate about it but Jason was by far the best thing about it and deserves a second shot.Conan 2011 was no masterpiece for sure but to bash it because the mask didn't make Kharlar some kinda of invincible demi-god right away is lame.

[Crom2006]

Here is an interesting comparison of both the 1982 film and 2011 film.
Just click on the link below.
http://thatguywithth...ld-vs-new-conan

Edited by Crom2006, 04 February 2013 - 02:20 AM.

[MilkManX]

It is just sad that they wasted a great opportunity with a terrible script. I still think Momoa himself was very good. Not the best but he had the ferocity of Conan that I liked.