294 replies to this topic

[Grimr]

Momoa by far. Not perfect, but a million times better than the ponderous, inarticulate Arnie.

[RobP]

Momoa by far. Not perfect, but a million times better than the ponderous, inarticulate Arnie.

I think you can see glimpses with JM and, that given a decent film to work with, he shows promise. With Arnie you are always going to get Arnie, whatever the script. Imagining each in the other's film could be interesting :-) (I still think the Milius movie is a much better film, but both are far from perfect)

[Ironhand]

Momoa by far. Not perfect, but a million times better than the ponderous, inarticulate Arnie.

I think you can see glimpses with JM and, that given a decent film to work with, he shows promise. With Arnie you are always going to get Arnie, whatever the script. Imagining each in the other's film could be interesting :-) (I still think the Milius movie is a much better film, but both are far from perfect)

OMG, I never even thought of that. Momoa in CTB82? Instead of posing and looking statuesque, he would have brought the role to life.

[gungnir_1972]

I just want to see Jason Have another shot at Conan...I saw the trailer for Wrath of the Titans,the sequel to Clash of The Titans.I remember that many people prefer the original over the remake and was pretty critical of it.I myself loved both and think the sequel looks to be a great improvement.Sam Worthington looks more like Harry Hamlin,the story seems to have shown Improvement as well.Much like my opinion of Conan 2011 the remake is vary better visually than the original.Jason Momoa is Conan...the only improvements would be the blue eyes and a little more size\bulk and better armor and weapons.If we somehow mange to get a second film hopefully they will address these issues.If they go with a recast who would it be?I'd want someone of comparable height and agility as Jason...no actor in Hollywood comes to mind.Although Henry Cavill might work given his look for the new Superman movie.It really sucks that Jason most likely get a second chance as I don't think there's an actor better suited to play the role...at least not at this point and time.he was 100 times better than Arnold.The only actor i think could possibly outdo Jason would be a younger Vladmir Kulick.

[mario]

you know i saw the new one recently too and i really had a blast! the original was not a movie that took itself so seriously, neither does the remake, and i actually admit i look forward to the next one....lol betweent that and actually enjoying conan i must be getting soft in my movie tastes these days lol.
one thing of note, I've noticed in some stills from conan 2011 and even watching the movie itself ( ill check again when i open up the blu ray on my christmas list fo sho')but in some scenes Momoa 's eyes seem lighter than in others, like a light green blusih sort of color; didnt they use contacts in the movie in the non action scenes?

[Ascalante]

Now that I've had time to watch Conan 2011 on blu-ray, I definitely think Arnold was incomparably better. Arnold has CHARISMA, Jason does not. I would rather watch Conan the Destroyer than Conan 2011. Despite the bad script Conan the Destroyer is still worth watching once a year, because Arnold's presence is nearly as enigmatic as Howard's Conan. No, he doesn't nail the nuances of the Conan character, but he is as comfortable with himself as Howard's Conan character is comfortable with himself, which transcends into film wonderfully. Mamoa just growls, curls his lip, and tries to act tough, which comes off very flat and boring on film.

Even Stephen Lang probably would have been a better Conan. Yes, he is undersized, but he would have been more entertaining. It is obvious that his acting dominates Mamoa and he just would have been more fun to watch. Mamoa's performance seems like it would be more appropriate for a Friday night wrestling match. Most fans would probably agree that the biggest problems with Conan 2011 were the script and the directing, but aside from Mamoa's athletic ability, he didn't help this movie either.

Like others have said, we need somebody new for Conan, preferably someone who can act or someone who at least charisma and screen presence. It just hurts being a huge Conan fan and owning this crap Conan 2011 on blu-ray.

[Ironhand]

Charisma? Arnold can pose. Momoa can act. And fight.

[thedarkman]

Ascalante;

And why, exactly, did you buy the movie?

[Dave the Rage]

I will buying it for my collection (DVD version), also to do a Conan night with the old film and new one back to back.

I noticed that Momoa has won hands down in the POLL taken here, 68 % is good. I would love to know what age breakdown voted to be honest as I feel that it would be split in age? I loved the old film, but I answered honestly and think Momoa best potrayed Conan REH version than Arnold could have dreamed off, but then someone posed the question about Momoa in the original Arnold movie, that would be excellent. Then again lets reverse that and put Arnold in this new film? Which then would have been better and who would have potrayed a better REH Conan? Think about your answer on this, as you could be accepting that the new film wrote a better version of Conan (with Hoods help) than the old one by Stone?

I actually think Arnold in this new film would have been bulky and more wooden by the way, due to the types of scenes, for example: the scaffolding scene with the sand demons....lol I can not even begin to vision Arnold jumping about them? I know Arnold is far from slow, as some non body builders would believe, but his weight ratio to jumps and spins would curtail him a bit.

[SilentEnigma]

Having recently re-watched the Millius film (only the Millius one, it's been some time that I completely ignore the existence of Destroyer), Arnie isn't quite as bad as they say, and even though this Conan has nothing to do with REH, with the exception of a few scenes that I have seen being discussed to death, his character doesn't come off as a "dumb brute" or anything like that. Not to mention, there's not a single scene where this Conan wears the infamous "fur underpants" LOL. Maybe the mess that is Destroyer, including Arnold's "outfit" for the film, is the main culprit for all this Arnie-bashing and the misconception the general public has about Conan on film..

Edited by SilentEnigma, 23 December 2011 - 12:11 AM.

[RobP]

The Arnie character in Destroyer is awful - dumb, drunk, looks bewildered half the time. It's hard to imagine why the rest of the characters give him so much respect as a "warrior". It's like they took the CtB character and dumbed him down even more

[gungnir_1972]

I enjoyed CTB 82' but i hated Destroyer everything about it was just bad,could stand Grace Jones or Wilt Chamberlain,The Malek character instead of being comic relief was just plain annoying.The Queen Taramis(I think that's what her name was)and the returning wizard were the only characters that held mt attention for any length of time.The watered down violence and sexual tone didn't help much.I want violence and sex in a Conan movie.PG 13 or whatever just doesn't cut it for me.I liked the fight scenes in the 2011 version.I really wish they'd release an extended cut so we could see what was cut.I wanna see Conan do what he does best and that's slaughter his opponents.yes I know there's more to Conan than being a killing machine.Both CTB 82 and Destroyer depict Conan being so drunk he cant fight,defending himself would've been impossible.In my mind that's a huge smack in the face to the character.At least in 2011 hes brought down by being poisoned not by drinking himself stupid.At least in the tavern scene in 2011 even though hes partying hard hes far from helpless and can still take care of business and allows his capture by his own design rather than being an idiot drunk.The menace and contempt for his "captors"in the jail \torture dungeon is far more Conan like to me than King Ostric releasing Conan and his companions to retrieve his daughter from Thulsa Doom and his followers.I Think Jason;s Conan displays far more cunning and intelligence than Arnold's version ever did.Destroyer lacked the things that made CTB 82 work.I know 2011 has flaws the ship being used as a battering ram is a big one for me ad of course a few scenes being handled a little better..like the slave colony scene...but I much prefer 2011 Conan over the dumbed down watered down one.

[amster]

I enjoyed CTB 82' but i hated Destroyer everything about it was just bad,could stand Grace Jones or Wilt Chamberlain,The Malek character instead of being comic relief was just plain annoying.The Queen Taramis(I think that's what her name was)and the returning wizard were the only characters that held mt attention for any length of time.The watered down violence and sexual tone didn't help much.I want violence and sex in a Conan movie.PG 13 or whatever just doesn't cut it for me.I liked the fight scenes in the 2011 version.I really wish they'd release an extended cut so we could see what was cut.I wanna see Conan do what he does best and that's slaughter his opponents.yes I know there's more to Conan than being a killing machine.Both CTB 82 and Destroyer depict Conan being so drunk he cant fight,defending himself would've been impossible.In my mind that's a huge smack in the face to the character.At least in 2011 hes brought down by being poisoned not by drinking himself stupid.At least in the tavern scene in 2011 even though hes partying hard hes far from helpless and can still take care of business and allows his capture by his own design rather than being an idiot drunk.The menace and contempt for his "captors"in the jail \torture dungeon is far more Conan like to me than King Ostric releasing Conan and his companions to retrieve his daughter from Thulsa Doom and his followers.I Think Jason;s Conan displays far more cunning and intelligence than Arnold's version ever did.Destroyer lacked the things that made CTB 82 work.I know 2011 has flaws the ship being used as a battering ram is a big one for me ad of course a few scenes being handled a little better..like the slave colony scene...but I much prefer 2011 Conan over the dumbed down watered down one.

Word.

[JainkhulTamhair]

Charisma? Arnold can pose. Momoa can act. And fight.

Arnold isn't a born sword fighter, it's like saying the sun is bright and the sky is blue, but saying Momoa can "fight" is going a bit too far. It's simply outrageous.

Whe I rented the bluray from a bud, I put the Conan vs Zym final battle in loop to analyze it better: they're both swinging weapons in the air with no real impact when battling on the sacrifice wheel. It's just plain stupid.
The only good aspect of the fights were that unlike in Gladiator, at least some sword moves could be actually seen onscreen and not only glimpses and flashes. But the latter were still present, a sign of our times I guess.

I'm sure all purists here will find Conan struggling to hold a light Tamara at the end of her rope quite challenging...for the most powerful man of his time.
that's absolutely not the Conan I know. to contrast with the brute handling a butcher's knife & performing a few katas, the new director chose to give us a softer Conan who can't even lift a GIRL on a rope and who's swinging his sword like a mop .

I understand that not having a slow Conan is a good thing, but replacing slow speed by "any old" sword wielding beach boy isn't leagues better in my book. and I've seen plethora of genre movies.

Conan should have fought like ONE EYE in VALHALLA RISING, not like a reject from a Stargate spinoff who watched Gladiator and tries to be impressive with not enough training.
In Valhalla Rising, One-eye leaps and seizes an enemy while slashing another, he's quick, agile AND strong, manages to eradicate -while being attached- many opponents in a heartbeat and displays natural TALENTS which could make us use the term "INSTINCTIVE FIGHTING" to describe his technique.
that's a lot more Conan-like for me than the TV parody I saw in Conan 2011.

For Momoa's defense, I will say his performance was a LOT better than in the said stargate spinoff, but he didn't show enough mastery in his swordfights in Conan and the filming didn't help neither, it's true.

[JainkhulTamhair]

I enjoyed CTB 82' but i hated Destroyer everything about it was just bad,could stand Grace Jones or Wilt Chamberlain,The Malek character instead of being comic relief was just plain annoying.The Queen Taramis(I think that's what her name was)and the returning wizard were the only characters that held mt attention for any length of time.The watered down violence and sexual tone didn't help much.I want violence and sex in a Conan movie.PG 13 or whatever just doesn't cut it for me.I liked the fight scenes in the 2011 version.I really wish they'd release an extended cut so we could see what was cut.I wanna see Conan do what he does best and that's slaughter his opponents.yes I know there's more to Conan than being a killing machine.Both CTB 82 and Destroyer depict Conan being so drunk he cant fight,defending himself would've been impossible.In my mind that's a huge smack in the face to the character.At least in 2011 hes brought down by being poisoned not by drinking himself stupid.At least in the tavern scene in 2011 even though hes partying hard hes far from helpless and can still take care of business and allows his capture by his own design rather than being an idiot drunk.The menace and contempt for his "captors"in the jail \torture dungeon is far more Conan like to me than King Ostric releasing Conan and his companions to retrieve his daughter from Thulsa Doom and his followers.I Think Jason;s Conan displays far more cunning and intelligence than Arnold's version ever did.Destroyer lacked the things that made CTB 82 work.I know 2011 has flaws the ship being used as a battering ram is a big one for me ad of course a few scenes being handled a little better..like the slave colony scene...but I much prefer 2011 Conan over the dumbed down watered down one.

Conan did look less dumb in 2011 but he sure didn't look more menacing nor sure of himself, playing the pretty boy waving his gel-enhanced hair every minute as in a l'Oreal commercial didn't help but make things worse, not to speak of the grunting.
I agree with you that the dumbest conan version ever was in the Destroyer: Fleischer just destroyed everything and gave us a cardboard Conan.

concerning the "extended cut", a lot of fans should realize it's the same joke the studios are pulling on you guys as they pulled on the 1982 version fans: there are no "hours" of extra fight. You'll be lucky if there are something like ten-fifteen minutes that made it in post-prod and are waiting for a new edition to be released.
Nispel saying he has a two or three hour long version full of action and gore is just pulling the leg of willing and hoping fans.
It had peen bromised -pun- that CTB '82 had gory scenes (alternate versions of Conan's mother's beheading, dismemberments, etc) and heaps of other fights (in the pit, mounds, orgy palace), but they all met their fate in the cutting room since the beginning according to P.Sammon in his articles about the movie. Remember the hype about King Osric's assasination and all we had was a miserable bonus scene in the bonus section of the dvd.

Notice, since you were insisting upon CTD's failure, that the oiled ham look of Conan is radically different form the look he had in CTB:
CTD shows us a fur diaper and fur boots all along, while CTB shows an array of armors, head protection and weapons. The arena scene by itself has more different costumes for Conan than in the two other conan movies that followed.too bad the pit scene didn't correspond to Howard's Conan who would never have been forced to fight like a slave against his will for his first fights.
In one word, Momoa is FAR from being enough for me, it failed to hit anything spot on, it missed badly; I hope the next impersonator will do much better and that the powers that be will put their behinds in gear to find such an actor.

Edited by JainkhulTamhair, 25 December 2011 - 06:40 AM.

[JainkhulTamhair]

Now that I've had time to watch Conan 2011 on blu-ray, I definitely think Arnold was incomparably better. Arnold has CHARISMA, Jason does not. I would rather watch Conan the Destroyer than Conan 2011. Despite the bad script Conan the Destroyer is still worth watching once a year, because Arnold's presence is nearly as enigmatic as Howard's Conan. No, he doesn't nail the nuances of the Conan character, but he is as comfortable with himself as Howard's Conan character is comfortable with himself, which transcends into film wonderfully. Mamoa just growls, curls his lip, and tries to act tough, which comes off very flat and boring on film.

Even Stephen Lang probably would have been a better Conan. Yes, he is undersized, but he would have been more entertaining. It is obvious that his acting dominates Mamoa and he just would have been more fun to watch. Mamoa's performance seems like it would be more appropriate for a Friday night wrestling match. Most fans would probably agree that the biggest problems with Conan 2011 were the script and the directing, but aside from Mamoa's athletic ability, he didn't help this movie either.

Like others have said, we need somebody new for Conan, preferably someone who can act or someone who at least charisma and screen presence. It just hurts being a huge Conan fan and owning this crap Conan 2011 on blu-ray.

Lang surprised me. The trailers were atrociously made, but Lang did his best, he dominated not only Momoa, but the entire movie, he dominated McGowan's spolied goth brat act as well.
Nispel didn't resolve any problem, he just re-actualized the duality Conan vs Doom by offering us Conan vs Zym.
Zym is Doom with another funky hairdo (again) .
Speaking of trailers, wrath of the titans didn't learn from the mistakes of the past and gives us some bubblegum gothrock cover music. As for Conan 2011.

The fact that Lang dominated too much Momoa in all aspects (including fighting skills, he semed more sure of himself) seems to be the main reason for fans accusing Momoa to lack any charisma whatsoever.
In a CONAN movie, Momoa should have dominated everyone, but no, he standed there, waiting for things to happen,repeating by heart some lines, that's the impression I had. Bashing Arnold will not make Momoa better, Arnold's flaws have nothing to do with the disastrous 2011 flop, it's Momoa's failure to impress despite a few genuine efforts of his (ruined even further by the director and the scenarists)

[monk]

Both CTB 82 and Destroyer depict Conan being so drunk he cant fight,defending himself would've been impossible.In my mind that's a huge smack in the face to the character.At least in 2011 hes brought down by being poisoned not by drinking himself stupid.At least in the tavern scene in 2011 even though hes partying hard hes far from helpless and can still take care of business and allows his capture by his own design rather than being an idiot drunk....

from rogues in the house...

But the Cimmerian fled, and learning in devious ways of the priest's treachery, he entered the temple of Anu by night and cut off the priest's head. There followed a great turmoil in the city, but the search for the killer proved fruitless until a woman betrayed him to the authorities and led a captain of the guard and his squad to the hidden chamber where the barbarian lay drunk.
Waking to stupefied but ferocious life when they seized him, he disemboweled the captain, burst through his assailants, and would have escaped but for the liquor that still clouded his senses. Bewildered and half blinded, he missed the open door in his headlong flight and dashed his head against the stone wall so terrifically that he knocked himself senseless. When he came to, he was in the strongest dungeon in the city, shackled to the wall with chains not even his barbaric thews could break....

just pointing out there's definitely precedent.

[Gin-Wulf]

so you know for a FACT that there is no extended footage left on the editing room floor? so you were involved with it then?
what makes you think that actors and director are lying about the scenes they shot and acted in? we may never get a directors /un edited cut but i do believe the scenes were shot the way both Momoa and Nisple say they did.

[gungnir_1972]

Both CTB 82 and Destroyer depict Conan being so drunk he cant fight,defending himself would've been impossible.In my mind that's a huge smack in the face to the character.At least in 2011 hes brought down by being poisoned not by drinking himself stupid.At least in the tavern scene in 2011 even though hes partying hard hes far from helpless and can still take care of business and allows his capture by his own design rather than being an idiot drunk....

from rogues in the house...

But the Cimmerian fled, and learning in devious ways of the priest's treachery, he entered the temple of Anu by night and cut off the priest's head. There followed a great turmoil in the city, but the search for the killer proved fruitless until a woman betrayed him to the authorities and led a captain of the guard and his squad to the hidden chamber where the barbarian lay drunk.
Waking to stupefied but ferocious life when they seized him, he disemboweled the captain, burst through his assailants, and would have escaped but for the liquor that still clouded his senses. Bewildered and half blinded, he missed the open door in his headlong flight and dashed his head against the stone wall so terrifically that he knocked himself senseless. When he came to, he was in the strongest dungeon in the city, shackled to the wall with chains not even his barbaric thews could break....

just pointing out there's definitely precedent.

He still disemboweled the captain and burst through his assailants....In CTB theres no fight at all ....Valeria just tries to wake him and she pushes him passed out onto the floor,Hes equally helpless in Destroyer.Sure Im sure you guys that are more versed in Howard can find all sorts of precedents for Conan being drunk.Conan being drunk..hmmm Imagine that.But Conan being so drunk he cant do anything to defend himself I imagine is pretty rare.

As far as Momoa's Conan having difficulty pulling Tamara up hes doing so from a length of chain one handed...which is much more difficult than just hauling up her dead weight,also he has to deal with Zym once hes dealt with him he uses both hands and pulls her up pretty easily hardly what Id call struggling.I enjoyed the fights in 2011 Id love to see what was cut.As far as One eyes fights in Valhalla Rising I'd have to watch it again because honestly the movie put me to sleep.No such problem with Conan 2011.

[JainkhulTamhair]

so you know for a FACT that there is no extended footage left on the editing room floor? so you were involved with it then?
what makes you think that actors and director are lying about the scenes they shot and acted in? we may never get a directors /un edited cut but i do believe the scenes were shot the way both Momoa and Nisple say they did.

Each episode of LOTR had how many minutes extra in it's uncut /director's version? Not so many when considering the already lenghty duration of the theatrical version.
now think of Conan 2011, it's only approx 1h50mn long. you'll get around 10mn max, don't hope for more.
A lot is left in the cutting room for many R-rated movies sometimes lost forever, nothing new.
Momoa didn't lie, but he never said the movie was 3h long to begin with, he just spoke about many extra scenes that didn't make it to the final product. Nispel is pulling our leg with his alleged "better" and "much longer" version fullof blood and glory.
I'm sure you know people who are still waiting for the love scene between Clone-an and Taramis in CTD, but wer sadly upset when the Bluray didn't add any new "unreleased" scene. I remember the lenghty list of alleged unreleased scenes that would have made it into the Conan the Barbarian (1982) BluRay and in the CTD BluRay: pure hoax in the end.
Maybe these scenes exist, but if they do, they may probably only exist in the same state as the King Osric stabbing scene: unfinished, unedited, no music, etc Who cares then?
You'll get your director's cut Conan 2011 but don't expect 1h extra, THAT one hour story is simply a lie.