294 replies to this topic

[Munthasem]

Momoa definitelly is more convincing as Drogo. I was hoping he'll manage to transfer it to the Conan character but strangely, it lost a bit of the spice.

As far as Arnold's presence concerns, he is for sure more convincing as some savage man hardened in the wilderness in CTB than in CTD. In CTD he looks as a He Man plastic figure. Impressive as far as physical appearance concerns, but not convincing. That whole movie is not convincing at any aspect btw but we all agree about it.

In CTB Arnie looks more to that power side than aesthetics. His fighting, posing and all isn't of course pantherish and quick as Howard described Conan but Arnold cannot fight like that, which as described is pretty tasking stuff. Having a man of approx 190 cm tall and around 120 + kg and moving like a gymnast is hard to find, not mentioning the fact that it would be prefferable that he can even half decent act something out.
Being aware of the fact that Arnold cannot pull some blazing speed, incredible reflexes and knowing he have to bridge it somehow, Milius probably pulled the old school trick of having that gentle slow motion action here and there during the fight scenes to present the power and magnificence of the blows, hits and the fights in general.
That is something used in the old movies when something which in reality was a small prop needed to leave an impression it's heavy and massive. Just remember how King Kong with Jessica Lang moves. Apes, even the gorillas are pretty much agile and fast regardless of their size, but to give the image of a huge, powerfull monster, they just slowed his movements and every impact produced some deep boom sound and somehow it gives the audience the feeling of mass, power, awe and so on. The same thing is with Arnie's Conan. Remember the fight with Rexor when he breaks the Father's sword. That's the same thing and while it's not cat like blaze, it still have the impact of magnificence, underlined with soundtrack and the effect i just described.

A different kind of approach I'd say. Now having Momoa with his moves, with more Conanesque stature, a black, straigth hair and a better overall movie package, story, performances, directing, some props, powerfull soundtrack etc. I'd really like to see.

I see you're mentioning Kulich. That guy is awesome. He have something I think would be great for Conan to have, that northern cold calm in presence and in action, but he steals the scene he's in with it.

And of course, someone mentioned that fights could be more brutal like the final duel in Ironclad. Yes. I agree. You just cannot have the Conan movie without some brutal and gore fights.Thats a harsh, dark, horror filled and brutal world Conan lives in, but as always, that would just underline his great deeds and adventures even more.

[KG Thunder]

One thing that both perplexed and disappointed me in the new film was when conan was holding her from the chain at the end...why didnt he just yank her up and behead zym? Thats what REHs conan woulda done...for conan to lift one petit girl with one hand would be childs play. And in regards to CTD ..all one can do is facepalm and lament.

It wasn't the girls weight that was the problem, it was that she was dangling ten to fifteen feet below Conan and he was lifting her one handed, not wanting to release his sword. He couldn't just pull her up with one jerk, he was wrapping the chain around his arm as he was lifting her.

On top of that after he takes care of Zym and uses both hands and hauls her up pretty easily.I think you'd have to be pretty strong just to keep her from falling and not dropping the chain let alone pulling her up with one hand which he was doing with a sword inn the other.I also think he displays strength in his agility..a quick explosiveness in the way he moves esp in the sand warrior scenes and on the boat.Strength isn't just shown by how much weight you can lift but also how fast and well you move...saying Jason Momoa's Conan is weak is like saying Michael Jordan has weak legs.

I was mostly annoyed that as Conan is struggling to pick her up, Tamara just hung on one handed and dangled there. Her other hand was perfectly free to grab onto the chain and either hang on tighter or try to climb up. Instead, she just hung on with one hand and screamed as her grip started slipping. Useless.

[Ironhand]

If a director wants JM to put on still more muscle, have a care, he might end up trading speed and agility for mass.

I think a proper director could give Jason all the presence he needs.

[monk]

not to mention a proper story and properly created world that is strictly adhered to soup to nuts. GoT works because it adheres to it's world and characters, it's developed fully no scrimping and has an actual story behind it, it's in the round so to speak and so was CtB. so while momoa may be closer to conan than arnie as far as how he moved with agility and speed if not for how he actually fought, CtB presents itself as an actual film and took a lot of inspiration from actual films, whereas 2011 CtB just looked like a filmed video game with equally weak story. CtB is somewhat forgivable, at least it can be a guilty pleasure if not an actual Conan movie. I think Arnold sometimes captured the sinister in Conan better than Momoa did. I felt that one of the things that detracted from Momoa's performance was his growling- I think they took that a bit literal and it sounded whacky and way too put on.

In GoT I think one of the things that gave his performance as Khal Drogo so much weight was the use of language.

[SLAYERx78]

though id prefer to see hlm with a more muscular physique, i totally agree that the right story and directer would mostly nullify the muscle issue. i haven't watched the movie since it was in the theaters so i didn't recall tamra being 15 feet down on the chain...though ill go to my grave feeling that scene was very un-howardian, ill grant even conan might have trouble lifting a 115 lb girl that far with one hand that quickly. nonetheless i NEVER once during that film felt conans raw barbaric strenth come in to play. i mean momoa is a big guy...not a weakling by anyone's standard...but not reh's conan by my standards by a stretch either. and i agree completely IH that it would be a big mistake to sacrifice speed and movement for size of muscles, i also feel its as much a mistake to sacrifice size and strength for speed and litheness. we need a nice middle ground.

Edited by SLAYERx78, 28 December 2011 - 10:34 PM.

[Dave the Rage]

I just watched world strongest man, and he dumbelled twice as much as Tamara in several goes! To say that Conan could not lift a 8 stone dansel up while walking back wards to give him leverage is silly. My Conan broke the neck of X in Red Nails, who had the neck of a bull! Seriously guys get with the real REH Conan and leave the film idea of him at the door were it belongs. tsk

Momoa done a good job as Conan in respect to what he was given to do by Nispel and others, so did Arnold with his shitty script. Good job the movie moguls did not make any money because they would probably make more crap with it if they did! So there lol, got that of my chest. ahh, to think I defended them too.....spit cough spits out the bad taste.

Edited by Dave the Rage, 29 December 2011 - 12:17 AM.

[amster]

I just watched world strongest man, and he dumbelled twice as much as Tamara in several goes! To say that Conan could not lift a 8 stone dansel up while walking back wards to give him leverage is silly.

Sure, he just could have walked backwards - on an unstable and rotting out bridge while an earthquake is happening, not to mention the fact that every link of the chain would have snagged the wooden plank as it rubbed against it, possibly dislodging it as well, sending Tamara plumetting yet again.

Good job the movie moguls did not make any money because they would probably make more crap with it if they did!

Yeah, it's really great that we probably won't get another Conan film for a very long time, if ever. Hip hip hooray.

[mario]

we probably wont but something occured to me. If Momoas career took off with the next 2 or 3 films ( he's doing bullett to the head w/ stallone right now, another flick i have to put on my list lol) plus his popularity in got, there may be a renewed interest in the nispel flim ( from what i gather is doing better but not great in rentals and blu ray sales).If schwarzennegers career had faded after destroyer or predator, who knows if the Milius film wouldve had its lasting popularity.
And as I said earlier, whether one loves Momoa's perfomance or hates it or finds things to pick at , I give it to Momoa because out of the three actors ( i am not counting voice actors, whom ron pearlman is one btw)who played Conan in film or tv, I'm convinced he is the only one who actually researched the part, to me he is really the first attempt to really play Conan, as muchas I love the milius film and the fleischer comedy.

[Ascalante]

Here you go Momoa fans...

and here's Schwarzenegger's response...

[KG Thunder]

Here you go Momoa fans...

and here's Schwarzenegger's response...

What point are you making? Would showing clips from Junior prove that Momoa was a better Conan?

[Ascalante]

Wow, even Junior whooped CtB 2011 in the box office. That's pretty bad. Anyway, I wasn't really trying to make a point. I was just enjoying juxtaposing these Ronon Dex "highlights with a great soundtrack?" to a hysterical Arnold.

There is really nothing that would prove Momoa was a better Conan. It is true, most forum members have voted for him in this poll. A majority opinion still does not equate to fact.

Mamoa and Schwarzenegger's thespian talents are certainly lacking, but whatever it was that made Schwarzenegger one of the greatest action stars of all-time (if not the greatest) he brought to Conan, and with that Conan also received a large amount of pop culture exposure. The problem is Conan has not really been able to capitalize on this.

The direction of the franchise seems to have strangely been mislead. An example was by allowing Conan the Adventurer to exacerbate the perception of Conan as a big, slow, and dumb barbarian, but worst of all was the low budget treatment of our beloved character. Conan will have to be recreated in a way that will boldly escape Schwarzenegger's shadow. This is hard, but not impossible. The Terminator franchise seems have to established enough success without Schwarzenegger to continue to expand the lore without him, if necessary. But what about Conan? What will it really take to break Conan out of Schwarzenegger's shadow on film?

Edited by Ascalante, 30 December 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[Gin-Wulf]

i think it will take belong true to the character and world REH created . that means no arnie or vieo game stuff or momoa or a moving Frazette painting, but being true to how the man created the world and showing us what he described instead of what everyone wants it to be.

[amster]

There is really nothing that would prove Momoa was a better Conan. It is true, most forum members have voted for him in this poll. A majority opinion still does not equate to fact.

No, what it shows is that among those who consider themselves REH fans (as opposed to "Conan" fans or "Arnold" fans) Momoa was the better Conan. I'm sure that if you took a poll among those who haven't read Howard, the vote would be overwhelmingly in Arnold's favor. It's the difference between an educated opinion and an opinion that comes from a place of ignorance.

[mario]

I love it though, how this poll has Momoa, Schwarzenegger and 'neither'. Moeller doesnt even count/exist here lol!

[Ironhand]

I love it though, how this poll has Momoa, Schwarzenegger and 'neither'. Moeller doesnt even count/exist here lol!

The most impressive thing Moeller ever did as Conan was to climb a 12-foot wall with a grappling hook.

[gungnir_1972]

I wonder though what Ralf would be like with a proper director....i mean appearance wise he was pretty good hes huge has the blue eyes....if he had long black hair and some acting skills.

[deuce]

i think it will take belong true to the character and world REH created . that means no arnie or vieo game stuff or momoa or a moving Frazette painting, but being true to how the man created the world and showing us what he described instead of what everyone wants it to be.

Right on.

[gungnir_1972]

Honestly though Jason with blue eyes would have been pretty close to perfect IMO.

[Roquefort Raider]

Vincent D'Onofrio did it best, although he was playing Robert Howard playing Conan, and not Conan himself.

[Swiftsteel]

In a nutshell, I'll say this: IMO Ah-Nuld had the more impressive overall 'presence' and 'charisma' - the cerebral/emotional gravitas of the character, but Momoa did a better job of portraying a literal, physical interpretation of REH's vision with the most potential for carrying a series.

Ultimately I'm starting to think that - in terms of escaping 'Ah-Nuld's Shadow' as many have put it - it's going to take another generation before that's truly possible. Whatever one thinks of the guy, the inescapable fact is, the Austrian Oak has such a powerful presence in the minds of so many that it will take a whole new generation not familiar with his work in an immediate sense to come along who will be able to appreciate a new actor portraying Conan without judging the performance through jaundiced eyes. In a sense, as ludicrous as it seems to say so after a nigh 25 year wait in between films...it was almost too soon for a new Conan. I really, REEEAAALLLY hate to say it, but honestly...if 'The Rock' had played the part, the film would have doubled, and maybe even tripled its revenue, as well as receiving a better critical response simply because he is the only physically appropriate 'personality' still current in the public consciousness who has a similiar presence and charisma as Ah-Nuld. I'm not saying that this makes him ideal for the role, or that this is what I would have wanted (believe me - IT'S NOT! LOL!), only that realistically speaking 'the average person' will only respond to what they are familiar with. To use music as a metaphoric comparable, it's the same kind of thinking that fills arenas every time an established act breezes through town, yet which sees a more obscure, yet undeniably better quality act from abroad met with blank stares and empty seats by fans who would likely prefer them if people were only willing to step out of their perceived comfort zone and give something different a shot. Because of this paradigm...Momoa just never had a chance. For Conan to rise again on the big screen, he will have to wait to be played by a new contender already established in the 'general audience consciousness' as a 'personality' in the same league as Ah-Nuld. Sad but true. If an 'unknown' is ever to pull it off it will take one hell of a big studio/media push to make the concept appeal to a broad audience and place butts in seats come opening night. This is the quandary Conan faces.

Edited by Swiftsteel, 08 January 2012 - 09:13 PM.