294 replies to this topic

[gungnir_1972]

You know KG I agree with you...If the movie had shown Conan's intelligence,his cunning...the fact that he's as much force to be reckoned with mentally as well as physically,that his mind is just as dangerous as his sword then Conan 2011 would have been a much better movie.I liked the fights and wanted to see more.I think Jason delivered on that end.If he manages to do a sequel I'd like to see the brain side as well as the brawn.I pretty confident Jason can pull that off...I hope he gets the chance to.

If they replace Jason I hope they go with an actor that can bring the same things to the table...The height,the quickness and agility and maybe even a little more size.In my mind all Jason really lacked was the blue eyes as far as the appearances go.Some may think he lacks the acting cred,I believe he was better than Arnold...that's not to say I didn't enjoy his version as well.I know neither depict Conan as written by R.E.H I just prefer Momoa's Conan over Arnold's.There were a ton of things in Conan 2011 that could and should have been better,story,character development,better score...but then Basil's soundtrack in 82' would be hard to compete with.Hopefully if we get a second film the music will be better.All things considered I still enjoyed the movie would love to see another Conan film,with all the things that make Conan great...not just his skill with a sword.

[Ironhand]

If they go with the sequel by Dirk Blackman (AWSBB), Conan's intelligence, will power, and craft are amply illustrated.

On the topic of blue eyes, I have recently been seeing trailers for Underworld 3. All the vampires have lively, glowing blue eyes. I saw the lead actress (playing a vampire) on a tv talk show, and she has brown eyes. I see no reason why Momoa could not be given blue eyes by the same CGI technique.

[KG Thunder]

If they go with the sequel by Dirk Blackman (AWSBB), Conan's intelligence, will power, and craft are amply illustrated.

On the topic of blue eyes, I have recently been seeing trailers for Underworld 3. All the vampires have lively, glowing blue eyes. I saw the lead actress (playing a vampire) on a tv talk show, and she has brown eyes. I see no reason why Momoa could not be given blue eyes by the same CGI technique.

Something to consider is that all four Underworld movies have a very dark, blue look to them, so the eye effects may not hold up as well in brighter, less processed shots.
I was really disappointed that the Conan the Barbarian 2011 DVD had none of the digital eye coloring tests they supposedly tried. It would have been interesting to see what it might have looked like had they stuck with giving Jason blue eyes.

[amster]

Gungnir the story sucked. I mean it really did. Pretend it was a movie without a main character named Conan.

Granted, the story wasn't nearly as good as any Howard penned tales, but if the goal was to follow up the film withgenuine Howard adaptations, then it really shouldn't be, should it? When it comes to sequels, there's always pressure to top the previous film. Blackman/McCain's A Witch Shall Be Born or Sean Hood's Queen of the Black Coast would have achieved that IMO. But as a pastiche, speaking as someone who read tons of them back in the day, I rather liked Conan2011 better than most of them. I think it was far better than anything deCamp and Carter or Robert Jordan (aka: Cona vs. the stereotypical Evil Sorceror of the month) produced, and fit alongside the original stories more seamlessly. And it helped that there was none of that nonsense about Conan praying to Crom or silly notions about his supposed rough chivalry towards the opposite sex, all inventions of later pasticheurs.

[Dave the Rage]

YEah have to agree about film story, it was better than some of the pastiche books. I have the Jordan ones because I read the WoTime trilogy, sorry Quadrilogy or whatever as I stopped reading after 4. The film to me was a better take on Conan than them tbh. IT felt like Conan was very generic and predictable when I read the books, I liked the clay statue though as an idea to replace the king etc, and the lady Synelle sounded plausibly tasty, but the rest were generic money undertakings without greatness. I note the thanks to LSDeCamp in his books (Defender and Triumphant) who supposedly kept the mighty barbarian high for all these years. hmmm

I like to stir my tea with controversy, but I liked Conan the Avenger by Nyborg abd LSDC a little bit more than the story in Conan 2011 to be sure.

Edited by Dave the Rage, 27 January 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[david icke]

Mamoa was obviously better than Arnie at portraying the Conan of the original stories, of course that is what they were trying to conciously do here, rather than what they did back in 82, which was to cater the character around what Arnie was capable of acting wise. I don't think milius was too concerned with the characterisation of Conan at all, he was happy to just get some kind of barbarian onscreen who embodied his sense of male physical power.

[Ironhand]

What Milius and Arnold portrayed onscreen wasn't even a barbarian. He was a civilized, educated, freed slave. Momoa was at least more or less barbaric.

[Dave the Rage]

In saying that, Momoa did play the character as a youthful dangerous lad, more than a barbaric destructive machine. Arnold had that essence that he could rip your head off after watching the pit fights and the dual at the mound. Momoa captured the skill with a sword and speed better though for me and the look. To combine these two would have been the best of a bad bunch? Just a thought.

[RJMooreII]

I thought Pitch Black and Riddick were pretty good Conan-in-Space pastiches; so though I'm not suggesting he play Conan I'm going with vin Diesel. As far as the eponymous Conan films, I don't think any of them look anything like REH Conan so I am just going with Arnold because I prefer him as an actor and the first film to the new one.

[TheDarkslayer]

Man, I"m shocked more people think that Mamoa was better. Sure, Arnold wasn't perfect for the role, but I wouldn't take his atlantean sword away and give it to Mamoa. To this day though, I'm not sure anyone could be cast as a legit Conan. Arnold had Charisma, it was odd, but it was there. Only Crom knows who on earth could play a good Conan.

[kai]

Although looking like he steps out of a Frazetta painting, Momoa doesn't have much charisma (unfortunately found the same with his performance in GAME OF THRONES). Arnold is all charisma, and on film, charisma is king. It's not Arnold's amazing acting skills or sheer physical size that's kept people watching CONAN THE BARBARIAN, PREDATOR, THE RUNNING MAN, etc. It's his ability to command our attention on-screen.

[EM Erdelac]

Agreed. Momoa has a TV personality (I haven't seen Game of Thrones yet). Not many can jump between the two. CTB 2011 played like a sci-fi original. I could barely keep my eyes on the screen.

[amster]

Charisma is a subjective term. Obviously, an actor who is perceived as charismatic by one audeince member might have little or no appeal to another person watching the same movie. When talking about Arnold, you can't argue with the fact that he was once the biggest action star in the world, but how much can be attributed to the his "charisma", and how much can be attributed to the fact that he had a good agent and choose his projects well, projects that happened to have really good scripts and good directors? It's easy to talk about Arnold's charisma now, because The Terminator, Total Recall, Conan, and Predator are all considered clasics; and all of these films happen to be better as a whole than Arnold's performance. But Arnold's charisma wasn't enough to make Red Sonja a box office smash, nor The Last Action Hero, nor Junior, nor Eraser, the or the 6th Day, or Collateral Damage. After Conan the Destroyer, Arnold was quickly being typecast into a sword and sandal hero, which is why he abandoned Conan in the first place, and had he not made The Terminator, he very well may have faded into obsurity like virtually every other bodybuilder/actor that came before him.

Arnold's supposed charisma doesn't change the fact that he's vitually nothing like the character that Robert E. Howard created.

Favorite Conan Story: The Treasure of Tranicos, also know as, The Black Stranger.

Really? I mean really?

[Ascalante]

Man, I"m shocked more people think that Mamoa was better. Sure, Arnold wasn't perfect for the role, but I wouldn't take his atlantean sword away and give it to Mamoa. To this day though, I'm not sure anyone could be cast as a legit Conan. Arnold had Charisma, it was odd, but it was there. Only Crom knows who on earth could play a good Conan.

This poll was created in August 2011, right at the height of excitement for the CtB2011 and the peak of Jason Mamoa fanboyism. I think if this poll were conducted today you would see the numbers shift towards Schwarzenegger some. When people are at home looking at their Conan DVD collections, they may be inclined to pick a Schwarzenegger flick while Mamoa's Conan collects dust. Schwarzenegger holds up better on repeated viewings in my opinion.

[Ascalante]

Schwarzenegger's charisma speaks for itself; arguably the greatest action movie star of all time well as being Governor of California for eight years simply requires charisma. Ctb2011 wishes it had the revenues of Arnold's worst movies.

http://boxofficemojo...der=DESC&p=.htm

[amster]

Man, I"m shocked more people think that Mamoa was better. Sure, Arnold wasn't perfect for the role, but I wouldn't take his atlantean sword away and give it to Mamoa. To this day though, I'm not sure anyone could be cast as a legit Conan. Arnold had Charisma, it was odd, but it was there. Only Crom knows who on earth could play a good Conan.

This poll was created in August 2011, right at the height of excitement for the CtB2011 and the peak of Jason Mamoa fanboyism. I think if this poll were conducted today you would see the numbers shift towards Schwarzenegger some.

You're new to the forum and obviously don't know the other members very well.

[kai]

@ Amster, I would respectfully offer that IMHO on-screen charisma isn't subjective. That's why it's so special... It's very objective. A person can hate an actor (or their performance) but still feel that charisma. I don't like Robert Downey Jr., but does he have on-screen charisma? Yes. Dwayne Johnson... all charisma. John Wayne... limited as actor... amazing charisma! Many times that charisma can show even in a bad movie. IMO, CTB(2011) didn't have that.

Momoa has a look, but that's all. 99% of working actors in Hollywood have a "look," but very few have charisma.

What I see here is that a lot of people like Momoa's look, and if that were all that mattered in a film, he would be a great CONAN (I loved the tip o' the hat to Frazetta). Unfortunately we need more... CONAN hasn't been as lucky as the JAMES BOND series to consistently find charismatic actors who you want to watch, even reading the telephone book.

Many years ago I was associated with a property in Hollywood and met Arnold. He's all charisma, even in person.

So, why hasn't a good, charismatic CONAN been found in all of these years? Well, my take is that where the Broccoli family who owns BOND is always hustling to make more movies (as a point of family pride if you're to believe interviews), the entity owning CONAN hasn't been hustling with a focus on CONAN. But that's just my guess.

Edited by kai, 28 April 2012 - 06:10 AM.

[Ironhand]

Man, I"m shocked more people think that Mamoa was better. Sure, Arnold wasn't perfect for the role, but I wouldn't take his atlantean sword away and give it to Mamoa. To this day though, I'm not sure anyone could be cast as a legit Conan. Arnold had Charisma, it was odd, but it was there. Only Crom knows who on earth could play a good Conan.

This poll was created in August 2011, right at the height of excitement for the CtB2011 and the peak of Jason Mamoa fanboyism. I think if this poll were conducted today you would see the numbers shift towards Schwarzenegger some.

The height of excitement for the CtB2011 and the peak of Jason Mamoa fanboyism do not coincide. When it was announced that Mamoa would play Conan, the scorn and vituperation in this forum against Mamoa was scathing and excoriating, for a long time. His performance in Game of Throines began to turn the tide. Eventually, his ability to portray an athletic fighting man obliterated Arnold's posing and mumbling.

Edited by Ironhand, 28 April 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[amster]

Arn

@ Amster, I would respectfully offer that IMHO on-screen charisma isn't subjective. That's why it's so special... It's very objective. A person can hate an actor (or their performance) but still feel that charisma. I don't like Robert Downey Jr., but does he have on-screen charisma? Yes. Dwayne Johnson... all charisma. John Wayne... limited as actor... amazing charisma! Many times that charisma can show even in a bad movie. IMO, CTB(2011) didn't have that.

Arnold is very charismatic, but that doesn't mean he was a good Conan. It's rather like saying that John Wayne's portrayal of Genghis Khan is superior to Asano Tadanbu's. It's a lazy argument, one that someone with absolutely no knowledge of the original Conan stories can get by with. The question is which actor best portrayed Conan. This isn't a beauty contest. Are any of you "Arnold has more charisma" guys able to indentify what characteristics define the charater that Howard created and explain how Arnold's performance captured those characteristics better than Momoa?

[TheDarkslayer]

Charisma is a subjective term. Obviously, an actor who is perceived as charismatic by one audeince member might have little or no appeal to another person watching the same movie. When talking about Arnold, you can't argue with the fact that he was once the biggest action star in the world, but how much can be attributed to the his "charisma", and how much can be attributed to the fact that he had a good agent and choose his projects well, projects that happened to have really good scripts and good directors? It's easy to talk about Arnold's charisma now, because The Terminator, Total Recall, Conan, and Predator are all considered clasics; and all of these films happen to be better as a whole than Arnold's performance. But Arnold's charisma wasn't enough to make Red Sonja a box office smash, nor The Last Action Hero, nor Junior, nor Eraser, the or the 6th Day, or Collateral Damage. After Conan the Destroyer, Arnold was quickly being typecast into a sword and sandal hero, which is why he abandoned Conan in the first place, and had he not made The Terminator, he very well may have faded into obsurity like virtually every other bodybuilder/actor that came before him.

Arnold's supposed charisma doesn't change the fact that he's vitually nothing like the character that Robert E. Howard created.

Favorite Conan Story: The Treasure of Tranicos, also know as, The Black Stranger.

Really? I mean really?

Don't follow. Yes, really.