210 replies to this topic

[PaulMc]

Almost any approach will be an admission of failure. Like it or not, that's not going to be an acceptable choice.

Moving the yarns to a new medium (cable) would be preferable all around. This is the best chance of rendering the short stories.

It would also be a way for all involved to save face.

I agree with the cable t.v sentiment.

But cable t.v. is *still* Hollywood.

But at least, there, you'll be looking for a steady income project, rather than a make-or-break blockbuster. And historically, they don't mind experimenting to some degree.

[rich bonk]

They should've got Arnold involved to some degree, perhaps playing Corin. An Howard adaption next time, perhaps written like Tim Truman did in the Conan Comic...flash back(s) with Arnie as Conan's grandfather might be a profitable way to go - and personally, I'd love the hell out of it.

[Reaver]

While that sounds good in theory, it would confuse a lot of the hardcore fans of the 1982 film, many of whom have no idea who REH was.

[PaulMc]

I think Pardaox needs to do as follows, in the order described, over the course of several years:

1. Strengthen the REH brand name
...

2. Make non-Conan REH feature films
...

3. Conan
...

4. Bring it all together
...

A long term plan. Good input.

I'd add, perhaps selfishly as a reader (and, yes, wannabe writer) another attempt at Age of Conan books done correctly. Full novel trilogies only when the story will truly support the structure and length. Otherwise, take a page from Black Library (Warhammer, Warhammer 40K novels) allow stand-alone novels, duologies and especially, anthologies of short stories! That's the medium best suited to sword-and-sorcery. True s-&-s, not 'high' fantasy. An introductory anthology done right might go a long way.

As for #2 - didn't work out so well for Solomon Kane and that Bran Mak Morn (with Peter Berg attached to direct) project went nowhere. Small films can reach "development hell", too, if you're not careful.

[monk]

cable.

use what's out there and understand where the bar has been set for this kind of material. we're way past scorpion king and CtD. the first 10 min or so of valhalla rising was practically cimmeria.

+10! That's the kind of fight scene I want to see in a Conan movie, not novelty weapons and silly grimaces

One-Eye came over as a total wickedest bastard there ever was. Momoa seemed to force it. especially with the growl. but he had promise. less hair gel looking and more just hair might be a start, and no need for the crazy length there. the fighting in VH was in the same vein as GoT and that's really where they should have come in.

Again, the bar is set. It was time for the grandaddy to come in and clean clocks and show them how it is *really* supposed to be done. I loved too how One Eye just kept an axe and a knife, no sword.

[Kortoso]

I agree with the cable t.v sentiment.

But cable t.v. is *still* Hollywood.

But at least, there, you'll be looking for a steady income project, rather than a make-or-break blockbuster. And historically, they don't mind experimenting to some degree.

Didn't say it wasn't. But it's different than another feature film, which is probably a bad idea right now. People don't want to see a sequel to a movie that bombs; they will expect the same quality. But a TV series following the original tales, assembled by a different studio, would - I think - still be accepted as a viable alternative.

[Ironhand]

I'm very happy with this thread. I love the Bible idea. Hire some REH scholar/fans to write it, then treat it like it was the Jehovah-dictated Old Testament, inscribed in tablets of stone. If writers or producers or directors want to get "creative", tell them "Sure, you can be creative, just don't mess with The Bible."

[norse_sage]

Absolutely.

It boggles the mind that this has not been done.
I imagine a bible consisiting of the following:

- A historical account of The Hyborian Age, setting the scene
- Characteristics of Conan, the people and countries of the Hyborean age
- The Dark Horse timeline of all known Conan adventures, from breaking the neck of a Cimmerian bull to Hour of the Dragon.
- All of the above in accordance with REH.

Then one could hand over full creative control to the makers of the film, under the provisio that NOTHING in the Conan bible be contradiced.

That way way we'd either get an adaptation of an original story, or a pastiche that fits flawlessly in with the original stories. Either works with me, and either would have been a hell of lot better than any Conan movie to date.

[Dark Mark]

Just leave it alone, I would rather just read the original stories if that is your best effort.

Edited by Dark Mark, 26 August 2011 - 09:10 AM.

[miketerminus]

1.Keep Jason

2.Adapt an actual Conan story I think Black Colossus would be one hell of a sequel.

3.Create a Conan bible as mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

4.Find a competent director,studio and writers.




PS:May Set eat Arnold,he was one of the factors that nearly killed the Batman franchise.He and Millus have done enough damage.

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

Stop talking about sequels, please. You simply CAN'T make a sequel of a box office disaster. The fact is: the Conan franchise have been KILLED. Our only hope now is a resurrection, not a cure. That's why they can't keep our good friend Jason. If they want to save his property, Paradox must run away from this feature film like a bat out of hell.

I fear the public image of the character have been damaged forever. I am not being exaggerate folks, only realistic.

[Ironhand]

Elsewhere in this forum, kind-hearted posters have allowed that Arnie might have portrayed a decent Conan if he had had a decent script and a good director.

BUT...

Jason portrayed a good Conan DESPITE a horrendous script and a stupid director. How 'bout that for credentials?

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

Credentials are not important now. We are talking about marketing. Right now, if you want your favorite fantasy universe save from oblivion, I assure you that some sacrifices are needed.

[Ironhand]

Credentials are not important now. We are talking about marketing. Right now, if you want your favorite fantasy universe save from oblivion, I assure you that some sacrifices are needed.

Wouldn't sacrificing Jason be admitting that Lionsgate, Nispel, and Drake are RIGHT to blame him for the failure?

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

It is easier than that. They MUST ignore that Lionsgate, Millenium, Donelly, Oppenheimer, Nispel, Drake and Lerner even EXIST. They have no other choice but sacrifice Jason Momoa, that we all liked and Sean Hood, that we all loved. The only way to save the brand is start from scracth.

And dont expect any project anytime soon. They must wait until the storm have passed.

Edited by Evil Thoth-Amon, 26 August 2011 - 09:51 AM.

[norse_sage]

I am in complete an total agreement with Evil Toth-Amon here, his words represent the reality of the moviemaking business and mirror my own.

Reading this thread, I don't think the reality of the situation has sunken in with everyone. People keep talking about how to improve matters for the sequel. There is not going to be a sequel. It's dead, Jim.

The launch of "Conan the Barbarian" (2011) has been an unmitigated disaster. It has flopped catastophically, worse by far than many of you seem to think. This is no temporary setback or a speedbump, this is instant franchise death. At worst, it might even spell the end for Paradox.

Both Conan and REH are dead on film for the indefinate future. The struggle Paradox had making this movie is NOTHING compared to the struggle they will have getting another one off the ground after the spectacurlar bomb this turned out to be. It failed at everything it said out to do.

Before they can even think of getting another Conan movie made, they must repair the damage this one has done and rebuild the brand. That will take them the better part of a decade, and even that is optimistic.

IF (and that is indeed a big if) a new Conan movie gets made as early as a decade down the line, it has to be a total reboot, denying the 2011 movie ever happened. No one associated with it can be involved with a proverbial next Conan movie.

It doesn't matter how good he was, Momoa has to go. It's not personal and it's not fair, he delivered the goods, but that's business. If Conan is to have a future on film, Momoa can not be associated with it.

Edited by norse_sage, 26 August 2011 - 01:57 PM.

[theagenes]

Here are my thoughts on this topic that I posted last Sunday on the REHupa blog:

But then the box office results started coming in and Sean posted his comments. That’s when reality began to hit home. It’s over. There isn’t going to be a sequel. There isn’t going to be a new Conan franchise. It’s dead. This will likely kill the other REH film projects as well. This was as bad as a disaster as it could be. That’s also when I became conscious of the fact that I was in the process of working my way through the Kübler-Ross stages of grief. I’d been through Denial, Anger, and then Bargaining. I suppose I’ve been in the Depression stage most of today, so maybe Acceptance will follow soon.

So where do we go from here? Well, any hope of seeing another live-action Conan anytime in the near future is gone. Maybe in a few years Paradox can try again with a fresh start. Hey, it worked for Hulk, right? (is that still Bargaining?) But first, Paradox needs to end the relationship with Nu Image/Millenium/Lionsgate as soon as possible (or let their option run out or whatever). They had their shot and they blew it, just like many of us predicted they would.

Next, they need to forget about trying to do Conan on the big screen. For several years now a number of us have been saying that the best way to do a live-action Conan would be to do it as a premium cable series like Rome, Spartacus, and now Game of Thrones. In fact, it’s been suggested so many times by so many people that it’s practically become a meme on the Conan.com boards. Originally, the thinking was that a series format would be better suited than a feature film to adapting short stories. After this weekend I realize now that there is another reason why a series on HBO, Showtime, or even STARZ would be the preferred venue for a Conan series: the mature content. This new Conan movie was supposed to be hardcore, with buckets of blood and lots of flesh, but honestly compared to what we’ve seen on Spartacus or Game of Thrones, this was tame. Is this what “Hard R” looks like nowadays? An 80′s style sex scene, a few boobs, and a decapitation or two? Meh.

I realize now why the studio didn’t want to go R on this film. R-Rated films are a thing of the past. The multiplex is now reserved for teenages and their angst-filled vampire flicks. The place for mature content is on premium cable, where the filmmakers don’t have worry about BS ratings boards—they are free to create the movies/series they want to create. Think about it—If Spartacus were released theatrically it would be NC-17 and wouldn’t get shown anywhere. R-Rated theatrical films, especially ones as mindless as Conan 3D, are written for 14-year old boys that are too young to see them (or at least pay to see them; they’ll no doubt download the torrent). Most of us “grown-ups” want to see Spartacus or Game of Thrones levels of sex and violence, but that will never happen in the theater anymore. Premium cable is the only place to get that nowadays. That is what doomed this film from the very beginning—it’s an outdated model. It either needed to go PG-13 and aim at the high school crowd or go to premium cable do it hardcore. By trying to split the difference it failed miserably. That’s the lesson that needs to be taken away from this debacle for the future.

To this I would add that unfortunately I agree with ETA and norse_saga that Jason cannot be salvaged. That really sucks because I though he was great. But any attempt to start over has to completely quarantine itself from this and the 1982 film. I'm not sure waiting a decade will be necessary if you go with a different medium like premium cable. People's attention spans and pop culture memory are so short these days that this may be forgotten in a few years. If you try again on the small screen with a new actor, a completely new approach, new look, it might work. Surely Showtime might be interested in something that could compete with GoT on HBO and Spartacus on STARZ? Pitch it that way and use these two shows as the model to follow---not 1980's S&S films. THey were fun in their day, but that won't fly now.

Edited by theagenes, 26 August 2011 - 01:42 PM.

[Reaver]

I think you doomsayers who are running around screaming "The end is nigh!" are missing the point of the thread. I think (and I guess I could be wrong on this) that the point of this discussion is to assume that they ARE going to make a sequel, so what would we like to see them change in that movie.

It's entirely possible they could make it. Millenium may even sell the rights to someone else, just to wash their hands of it. And unless Mamoa signed an exclusive multi-picture deal with Millenium, he would be free to star in that one too.

[Boot]

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is better, and different, than the first Star Trek film. Aliens is a better film than Alien. The Dark Knight is a better film than Batman Begins.

These are all examples of films that were re-worked and improved upon the original. In today's fever of reimagining everything (here comes another Spiderman, and how many Punishers have there been?), you could even start completely over with Conan in a few years with a new star, a new production, new take on the character. Or, you could do as I indicate in the opening of this post by just taking what you've got and "making it better".

I think one of the major reasons that people stayed away from Conan in droves is the star. "What?! Conan is the cheesy dude from Stargate: Atlantis? That's going to be a piece of crap!" An unknown probably would have been better for box office appeal, no matter how good Momoa was in the role (I think he was so/so).

Bottom line is: Make a good, solid movie, and people will come. You can't make crap and expect 'em to come. YOu need quality. Superior story-telling.

Do that, and all of a sudden the public "gets" Conan.

Remember, tons of non-fantasy fans made the Lord of the Rings trilogy the hit it is because the stories are well told. They are good movies.

Make a good Conan movie, and they will come.

[duaneshadow]

I think you doomsayers who are running around screaming "The end is nigh!" are missing the point of the thread. I think (and I guess I could be wrong on this) that the point of this discussion is to assume that they ARE going to make a sequel, so what would we like to see them change in that movie.

It's entirely possible they could make it. Millenium may even sell the rights to someone else, just to wash their hands of it. And unless Mamoa signed an exclusive multi-picture deal with Millenium, he would be free to star in that one too.

Agreed. People seem to be taking a masochistic delight in the 'failure'. It's almost British in it's sensibility.
My view is simple. Keep Momoa. Sod the idea that he's damaged goods. He was the high point of the film and was the polish on the proverbial turd. Eric Bana was gash in the HUlk movie, and they replaced him with Ed Norton, who has some series acting chops. Find me an equivalent for Conan and I might be convinced. If they could get Daniel Day Lewis to play King Conan, I might be happy, otherwise, stick with the lad.
Otherwise, cut the CGI, not completely though, and adapt People of The Black Circle. Doesn't need any farting about with the plot, which is very cinematic already, and has enough plots running through it to keep it interesting as well as a clear narrative and strong characters, all of which come very neatly to a conclusion, plus a muckle battle at the end. That big welsh knacker who played Gimili would be superb as Yar Afzal too.