210 replies to this topic

[Ironhand]

I'm starting this thread to be useable advice (not just blowing off superheated steam) to CPI/Paradox on how to recover from this debacle and get a new Conan movie made. I hope those with more knowledge than me about Hollywood, the movie industry, finances, etc, will proffer advice that will be more helpful than mine.

To start the ball rolling:
Keep an iron grip on creative control.
Keep Jason Momoa.
Ditch Lionsgate, Nispel, anyone who insisted on a revenge origin.
Adapt some actual REH stories.
Hire me as the screenwriter.

How 'bout it guys? How can CPI/Paradox make a movie for the Gipper?

Edited by Ironhand, 25 August 2011 - 11:23 AM.

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

You simply CAN'T keep Jason Momoa. Even considering that most of the fans accept him as a good Conan. He has been attached to this debacle that destroyed the brand and the public image of the character.

I am sorry for him but that's the truth.

[Rufus]

My opinion.

In order of importance for any sequel:

1. Adapt a Howard story, or combine two.

2. Use Screen writers that understand and respect Howard and the genre.

3. Use Jason Momoa again, please don’t use some roided wrestler.

4. Use a grown up director. The majority of directors mentioned positively on the ‘Ideal Directors for a REH Conan’
page on this site are safe bets (none are famous for their work on music videos and remake slasher films).

4. Avoid cheese at all costs. Many people slated Solomon Kane but it least it took itself seriously, avoiding stupid clichés and cheap laughs.

5. Employ a great composer. It was one of the few strengths of the 82 film and IMHO a weakness in the 2011 film.

[Red_Slayer]

I disagree that they can't use Jason. I for one thought Jason rocked. They don't have to deny that this movie happened, just make a better one next time. Look at Ghost Rider, the new reboot for that still has Nick Cage. Def keep Jason.

[Evil Thoth-Amon]

I disagree that they can't use Jason. I for one thought Jason rocked. They don't have to deny that this movie happened, just make a better one next time. Look at Ghost Rider, the new reboot for that still has Nick Cage.

It is not the same. The first Ghost Rider made 230 million in the box office and some more in DVD sales. It was a bad movie, but a successful bad movie.

The only way they can save the franchise now is wait some years (not 30, maybe 8 or 7) and DENY that this movie happened.

[Red_Slayer]

I think you are over reacting...as well as a lot of other people. But this board is full of rampant over-reactors.

[norse_sage]

There is no overreacting here.
I'm not convinced everyone here fully has come to terms with just how catastrophic a failure "Conan the barbarian" (2011) was.

One cannot compare this to "Ghost Rider", or "Hulk", or "Terminator Salvation", or "Superman Returns" or any other movie that disappointed to some extent.

Conan's performance was a total and complete disaster, worse than any worst case scenario. Worse than "Green Lantern", (so far) worse than "Jonah Hex" , and worse than "Punisher: War Zone"; only without a branded corporation to pick up the pieces.

The well has been poisoned. They can not try to make another one right away. Hollywood won't blame Lerner and Drake, they'll blame Conan the brand.

Rufus, your ideas on how to do the sequel are all good and well, but there is no way Paradox will be able to get a sequel made. No one in Hollywood will touch Conan now. We are worse off now than we were before the movie entered production in the first place.

I think Pardaox needs to do as follows, in the order described, over the course of several years:

1. Strengthen the REH brand name
- More high quality REH comicbooks
- More Del Rey paperbacks
- High quality videogames based on other REH charathers
- Smart phone games from other REH charaters

2. Make non-Conan REH feature films
- Make them with smaller independent companies like Constantin, DNA and Davies
- Keep budgets low, finance through indian and german hedgefunds
- make sure US distribution is in place before cameras roll

3. Conan
- Keep "Age of Conan" alive, and make it ever better
- Finish "Red Nails", and make several other animated features adapting original stories
- Make an animated series geared towards 7-11 eleven years olds, inspired by Roy Thomas. Create a new generation of fans.

4. Bring it all together
In five to ten years, maybe even more, a new generation of REH and Conan fans may be awaiting a new movie. Then is the time to roll out.
Team up with a production company that makes quality movies, and keep the budget low. Make a Conan bible, and have the contract stipulate it cannot be breached. Momoa and everyone else associated with the 2011 misfire can not be brought back. Start over and get it right.

Edited by norse_sage, 25 August 2011 - 02:38 PM.

[Maxmagnus]

Do not throw money on boring B movie stars for supporting roles, find new, fresh faces, actors who look the part and who can act -there are thousands of them.

Find girls with the curves who look like women from Hyborian world,(like those on Frazzeta paintings and Buscema's and De Zuniga's Conan comics) ,not some wooden and boring actresses who look like models from Nivea commercials.

Hire Nicolas Winding Refn to direct.

Keep Jason and find stylist who can make him to look exactly like Conan(black hair with a bangs and blue eyes).
If the fans could do it on their PCs, Hollywood designers surely can do it even better.

[Objet_petit]

Do not throw money on boring B movie stars for supporting roles, find new, fresh faces, actors who look the part and who can act -there are thousands of them.

Find girls with the curves who look like women from Hyborian world,(like those on Frazzeta paintings and Buscema's and De Zuniga's Conan comics) ,not some wooden and boring actresses who look like models from Nivea commercials.

Hire Nicolas Winding Refn to direct.

Keep Jason and find stylist who can make him to look exactly like Conan(black hair with a bangs and blue eyes).
If the fans could do it on their PCs, Hollywood designers surely can do it even better.

My god, it's Asia Carrera!

[monk]

cable.

use what's out there and understand where the bar has been set for this kind of material. we're way past scorpion king and CtD. the first 10 min or so of valhalla rising was practically cimmeria.

howards economy of world building was awesome because 90% of it was already our world history. use that for god's sake.

go to cable.

there was more R stuff in Game of Thrones. The fights were so much grittier and better done in that cable series than a full blown movie.

[RobP]

cable.

use what's out there and understand where the bar has been set for this kind of material. we're way past scorpion king and CtD. the first 10 min or so of valhalla rising was practically cimmeria.

+10! That's the kind of fight scene I want to see in a Conan movie, not novelty weapons and silly grimaces

[PaulMc]

cable.

use what's out there and understand where the bar has been set for this kind of material. we're way past scorpion king and CtD. the first 10 min or so of valhalla rising was practically cimmeria.

howards economy of world building was awesome because 90% of it was already our world history. use that for god's sake.

go to cable.

there was more R stuff in Game of Thrones. The fights were so much grittier and better done in that cable series than a full blown movie.

A series might be good, but I would be concerned with them trying to force a connection between all the stories.

I wonder if doing something along the lines of Showtimes Masters of Horror would be better. Do stand alone films. Some can be shorter to match the stories and avoid padding.

If the Conan tales are successful, maybe stretch it out into Kull, Bran Mak Morn, etc.

Essentially, give us a cable version of Dark Horse's Robert E. Howard's Savage Sword.

[Reaver]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I haven't seen the film yet, but I have some ideas.

1. Don't make any allusions to a previous interpretation.
I think this was the biggest culprit in this film (from all I have seen and read). Changing the name from "Conan" to "Conan the Barbarian" immediately puts it in people's mind that it's a "remake" rather than a "reboot." And the sword and logo are like cartoon versions of the 1982 film.

2. Ditch the 3D idea.
If you MUST do 3D (assuming it's still en vogue when they do a sequel), limit it's release. It's a gimic ploy, and at least half the people who see movies look at 3D that way. The movie should be shown in 2D on at least as many screens as it is in 3D.

3. Use Howard as the basis, not just an "inspiration".
Adapting a Howard story would be relatively easy. Admittedly, I feel that Howard had a knack for infodumping in an entertaining way, so you don't realise that most of what you are reading in some of his stories is internal monologue and background info. These are things that don't translate to film, and must be brought out in more visual ways. All that being said, his stories are full of action (and not just fighting and battles) that can easily be adapted to film.

4. Let the director make the film, not the producers and marketing department.
Many of the bad choices on this film (much like the 1982 film) can be attributed to the influence of producers, who have a habit of influencing the outcome based on market research, perceived trends, and what they think will "sell" a movie more. Trust the Director to do his job. And don't hamper his process with input from people who don't know the "art" of film-making.

Just some ideas in my head.

Edited by Reaver, 25 August 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[monk]

cable.

use what's out there and understand where the bar has been set for this kind of material. we're way past scorpion king and CtD. the first 10 min or so of valhalla rising was practically cimmeria.

howards economy of world building was awesome because 90% of it was already our world history. use that for god's sake.

go to cable.

there was more R stuff in Game of Thrones. The fights were so much grittier and better done in that cable series than a full blown movie.

A series might be good, but I would be concerned with them trying to force a connection between all the stories.

I wonder if doing something along the lines of Showtimes Masters of Horror would be better. Do stand alone films. Some can be shorter to match the stories and avoid padding.

If the Conan tales are successful, maybe stretch it out into Kull, Bran Mak Morn, etc.

Essentially, give us a cable version of Dark Horse's Robert E. Howard's Savage Sword.

i mean that can be done any number of ways. DH has explored a few methods now, including one where King Conan is retelling, or a set of scrolls (Nemedian Chronicles) are found in our history period. Wouldn't it be sick if they did some serious guerilla marketing and took a page from Blair Witch, made up a set of nemedian chronicles and then had them found by archeologists in the real world. The whole thing could be easily set up.

Then for the series they don't need to really provide any interconnection, they just use each story as an episode, fill in where needed IF needed. Once the originals are complete then they can worry about cohesive pastiche, but they need Howard level talent, not people who are trying to invoke what the people Howard inspired created. If that makes sense.

That's just one way, off the top of my head.

The important thing is to hit the bar set by LotR and more importantly Game of Thrones. That world is visceral, accepted de facto as the "real" world the story is taking place in, because they hew exactly to the line and the Bible.

Read Howard's descriptions of weapons and armor etc- it's all REAL world stuff. No need to go LARP on us. again, look at GoT. Everything has a very strong to literal real world precedent and that's one of the things that makes you invest in and engage with both the characters and the world experience. And the fighting in that series is bloody and gory, not flashy, not overly choreographed to look "cool." It's cool just because of what it is. Far more convincing than what we saw in Conan 2011.

[Kortoso]

I think you are over reacting...as well as a lot of other people. But this board is full of rampant over-reactors.

It's not just this board. The internet has a way of polarizing opinions.

[Crom]

I think you are over reacting...as well as a lot of other people. But this board is full of rampant over-reactors.

It's not just this board. The internet has a way of polarizing opinions.

No kidding. I just read a lively exchange on Facebook resulting from a post Terry Allen made.

[indestructibleman]

1. Don't make any allusions to a previous interpretation.
I think this was the biggest culprit in this film (from all I have seen and read). Changing the name from "Conan" to "Conan the Barbarian" immediately puts it in people's mind that it's a "remake" rather than a "reboot." And the sword and logo are like cartoon versions of the 1982 film.

trying to appease the Arnie fans was a mistake. sure, throw in some references/homages if you want, but don't structure the whole thing as a remake.

the Arnie fans probably outnumber the Howard fans, so i can see why producers would want to go after them. the problem with this approach is that those guys already have their movie. they love the 1982 film and don't see any reason for a new one.

[Reaver]

1. Don't make any allusions to a previous interpretation.
I think this was the biggest culprit in this film (from all I have seen and read). Changing the name from "Conan" to "Conan the Barbarian" immediately puts it in people's mind that it's a "remake" rather than a "reboot." And the sword and logo are like cartoon versions of the 1982 film.

trying to appease the Arnie fans was a mistake. sure, throw in some references/homages if you want, but don't structure the whole thing as a remake.

the Arnie fans probably outnumber the Howard fans, so i can see why producers would want to go after them. the problem with this approach is that those guys already have their movie. they love the 1982 film and don't see any reason for a new one.

Exactly! Although I consider myself one of "those guys" somewhat, I would rather this film be completely seperate from the 1982 film. Milius' movie was good on its own, despite the numerous flaws (IMHO, if you change the names, it is a masterfully done work). Trying to capture the same lightening twice was dumb. All they managed to do was piss off the hardcore fans on either side of the spectrum.

[PaulMc]

I'm starting this thread to be useable advice (not just blowing off superheated steam) to CPI/Paradox on how to recover from this debacle and get a new Conan movie made. I hope those with more knowledge than me about Hollywood, the movie industry, finances, etc, will proffer advice that will be more helpful than mine.

To start the ball rolling:
Keep an iron grip on creative control

This is a really complicated one. If you want top money financing, you go to Hollywood. Hollywood goes with "the sure thing" - meaning, they often go with what worked before. Personally, I don't understand this. I would think something new would be exciting, but they want "the sure thing." This is why you got the old "killed my father & revenge" theme from the '82 movie. "It worked in '82", it will work now!" This is why you get silly scenes that echo other movies instead of being original.

Again, I don't understand this, but that's how they think. I don't know the percentages of this concept - how often it works vs. how often it fails. I guess it works enough that they are willing to take the loss on the failures.

If you want low budget movies, you can stay away from Hollywood and compromises. The smaller stories can get away with this - the bigger ones, not so much.

I would try to pitch REH as "new and refreshing" compared to the staleness of everything being the same the past 10 years or so with action/adventure/fantasy. They assume REH is old and quaint, maybe. Show them he's a standout. Get 'em seeing dollar signs that way!

Keep Jason Momoa

Agreed.

Ditch Lionsgate, Nispel, anyone who insisted on a revenge origin.

Yes. Give someone else a chance, they missed theirs.

Adapt some actual REH stories.

Agreed. Short of that, if you're pastiching - get the Hyborian Age, details, characters right. Don't just pull names from a book because they sound neat. Look at an 'Age of Conan' map, at least.

Hire a REH consultant. Or, find one who'll work for free out of love of the project. Shouldn't be hard.

They need that because they will still insist on Hollywood screenwriters. It will be hard to find an REH fan & screenwriter in one person.

I don't need a new franchise reboot. Take Momoa and run. The revenge story is over, so let's move on. We have a cinematic Conan who was driven from Cimmeria by tragedy and revenge. We have a prose Conan who left Cimmeria for wanderlust. Either way, he's out now - a barbarian among the civilized. Take it from there. Again, I'll compare the difference to prose James Bond to cinematic James Bond. I can live with the backstory differences. The gulf now is far less than it had been with Milius' Conan, who pretty much inhabits an entirely different alternate universe from the prose Conan.

[Kortoso]

Almost any approach will be an admission of failure. Like it or not, that's not going to be an acceptable choice.

Moving the yarns to a new medium (cable) would be preferable all around. This is the best chance of rendering the short stories.

It would also be a way for all involved to save face.