693 replies to this topic

[JainkhulTamhair]

. that cover contest was a great idea.

It was also, if you recall, a complete disaster. Dark Horse's PR guy posted saying that he would never do something like that again. While trying to run a fun contest he ran into a wall of lawyers.

Because with a property like Conan, there are many fingers in the pie, all trying to get their way on what they think is best.

granted, point being there is A LOT they could do...they got that idea from running all the fan art in the letter pages, previously they had a great idea with getting different artists to do those covers but it's who they chose that got them afoul of fans, that wraparound cover for example. their problem seems to be in execution of the idea and the shape it takes.

I don't see what this "lawyer " war is all about (did I miss something??), usually when a company announces a fan cover contest, the artists submit art while implicitely agreeing and accepting the rules , which consist in the artist LOOSING all rights to the drawing , in favor of the company who holds in the end all rights, even those to modify or use the art at will , as long as they want etc etc.
Monk , I agree that Dark Horse comes up with brilliant ideas but sometimes mashes everything in the end, it must be the art direction .
For example when fans were asking less Linsner covers (it was getting old) and new fresh covers, Dark Horse remained deaf, but one day they released that damn wraparound which I spoke of earlier as well...as if they thought that was the type of "refreshing new material" the fans were waiting, or perhaps a pun made intentionally , as to deliver the tongue incheek message "Linsner is our pal, and you fans want someone new? Well then get a taste of this double page -wraparound!! How's that you're not really hot about it? (heavy laughter ensues) "

On the other hand, there are less fudged up covers with DH than there were with Marvel up to now ( the wraparound is pure junk but don't forget the 90's Conan ones... or those I mentioned in my reply to Dave..) , but hand painted covers DO feel absent nonetheless in the Dark Horse Conan comics line.

Edited by JainkhulTamhair, 06 March 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Aquilonia]

I like the idea of having Barry Smith back. I was never fond of the fact that he left Conan after Red Nails (I`m not putting Conan vs Rune into the mix) because that was when he finally became a master. The first issues of Conan the Barbarian show an artist that was trying very hard to find his way (and in fact was in a way struggling to meet his own expectations when it comes to the art quality depicted in the stories) and I may say that it took Barry many issues to get there. I consider his work "Hawks in the Sea" to be the starting point of his tremendous career on Conan, but it really didn`t last long at all, which is a shame.
Conan vs Rune shows an artist still in development and really capable of showing a Conan with a new take, new looks and still awesome and amazing when is comes to visuals.
Mignola, on the other hand, with all due respect to him and his fan base, would not fit Conan at all. The works he`s made for Hall of the Dead trade were awful, not in a sense that they were not of good quality, but in a sense that the style did not fit the cimmerian at all. In fact, I`d say Cloonan in this regard is far better then Mignola, even considering her style "manga" as many here have said (I`m with Zack, since there is really no such thing, and I`m with Dave the Rage`s daughter when she says it really has nothing to do with it).
Going back on topic, Cloonan has already shown a better take on the cimmerian, at least in the preview pages shown up to this point, and I assume, considering what happened to Barry Smith and Giorello (the artist that is so much loved by the old fan base nowadays, but did not leave a good impression at all in the beggining of his career with Conan) that her style will develop much, much more (Giorello anyone?), up to the point where people will start recognizing her as a great Conan artist, without a doubt.
Let`s not forget also that a new artist is coming in # 4, and his work may make a huge impact in the series. He may surprisingly please both sides of the coin, if the city coast preview shown is a sign of things to come.
I believe this series will be a revelation in a few months and many discussions we are having will be put to rest for good.

My 2 cents.

[JainkhulTamhair]

Aquilonia, with all due respect, something is seriously wrong here:
Mignola NEVER drew any Conan interior art, only variant covers and he wrote stories for Dark Horse Conan, such as Hall of the Dead. the art was by Nord.
I'm surprised you say Cloonan's work for Conan is "far better than Mignola's" : How could you ever say Mignola's work on Conan doesn't compare well with hers? There's no conan interior art by Mignola to compare!! If you had to compare, do it with Fafhrd 's 4 episode arc.
You didn't appreciate Mignola's story, but I considered it a tribute to BWS' episode "monster of the monoliths" with it's chtulhuoid toad entity and somehow a tribute to Adams and Buscema's depiction of Conan's many encounters with giant slugs in lost cities (curse of the golden skull , the conan the barbarian audio book , etc)

Personally I never had any issue with Giorello, even during his first tryouts with DH.

About BWS, I agree that Hawks was a real step towards mastery. I'd say the opposite for Red Nails and Conan vs Rune (scenario put aside , naturally) : in Red Nails, Smith is almost at full potential (old school purists say it's the very best) but I think he reached his best in the vs Rune, suffices to see the difference in coloring, it's night and day.

[monk]

well the thing about mignola is, he draws from a deep mythic background and has the sensibility of the Weird- he's more than familiar with the character and the archetypes going on there- cloonan and wood both had to reference the movie whereas for example if talking about FgD Mignola could probably rattle off 3 or 4 mythic stories that Howard invested in FgD.

his art is way beyond cloonan, though she has bits of it.

JT- there have been some rumblings that the editorial staff on Conan is somewhat at odds with one another, so that may explain why things get mangled.

I may be hazy on the details but that god awful wraparound cover is a great example- they wanted- again if memory serves me- to do a series of covers or art pieces by established artists, which is a great idea, but it's who they chose that tanked it.

for some reason, conan rarely gets the respect that tolkein or even martin gets. probably because there was no real cohesive legacy holders to say NO.

[Aquilonia]

I`m not referring to interior art when I talk about Mignola, I`m referring to the variant covers he made for The Hall of the Dead Trade.
That is it.
I may have not made myself clear.

Edited by Aquilonia, 07 March 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[JainkhulTamhair]

It's unfair to compare a cover to a whole collection of interior art, but even then comparing strictly three variant covers by him with the one by Cloonan, his Conan at least fits the canon (huh!) without being steroided or anorexic and in my opinion, shows more maturity than Cloonan's cover for issue #1 featuring a hobo version of Conan who seems to have avoided food in months!
how could you not like the borrowed elements by Mignola from marvel's CTB issues by Thomas and BWS ? The toad from the monoliths , the salamander (avoided and replaced by the same 3 eyed toad) , the mummified guards in Lanjau, the jade snake and the treasure (Red Sonja was deleted from Mignola's tribute and even if he wanted he couldn't for copyright reasons).... it's like Mignola revisited Thomas' pastiches in a darker and sober tribute.
How did this trade sell by the way?

Edited by JainkhulTamhair, 06 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[ZackDavisson]

you're absolutely right saying Mignola's personal series were extremely profitable, but you're dead wrong when you claim never having seen him do a job for a story he didn't write:

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I get the sense that English is your second language and that leads to some misunderstandings. I said Mignola hasn't drawn for a story he didn't write for a long time. I never claimed that he never did. Of course he did, and often, when he was first starting out.

[Dave the Rage]

I liked Frazettas covers more than his fire & ice stuff tbh, reminded me of He Man type cartoon. Suppose the technology then was not helpful, in that they used light boards for the sequencing of the plates etc. Did Buscema ever do any cartoons for Marvel in his time?

[Dave the Rage]

I should have explained my thoughts abit better KG. I was just firing something out there in regards to Zack mentioning covers by Mignola's. I thought the same about Frazettas covers, amazing stuff, but did not find Fire & Ice as good, but then that was sequential art and not static where you can pour your love into. Some artist are better at covers and not as good at sequential art I find.

Edited by Dave the Rage, 07 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[warrior900]

Im pretty sure R.E.H didnt have Cloonan`s version of Conan in his mind when he created him based on his own discriptions which are ''dark scarred face '' and ''tall and powerfully built'' and this ''Conan towered above them, and no two of them could match his strength. They were hardy and robust, but his was the endurance and vitality of a wolf, his thews steeled and his nerves whetted by the hardness of his life in the world’s wastelands''.Dave, Go read Queen of the black coast again then get back to me with what boils down to YOUR interpitation of what Conan looks like .

Edited by warrior900, 08 March 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[ollonois]

what about Tim Truman as an artist for this series? I'm reading now his first issues with Tomas Giorello and I prefer his art, seen in some previous issue, than Giorello's work, althought I like it too

and talking about new versions of Conan? what about this spanish take on Conan?

Edited by ollonois, 08 March 2012 - 03:20 AM.

[ZackDavisson]

what about Tim Truman as an artist for this series? I'm reading now his first issues with Tomas Giorello and I prefer his art, seen in some previous issue, than Giorello's work, althought I like it too.

Giorello's work MASSIVELY improves over time. I didn't like him as much when he first started, but now I think he is amazing.


And as to those Conan pictures ... yikes! Thanks but no thanks.

[Slashing Sword]

what about Tim Truman as an artist for this series? I'm reading now his first issues with Tomas Giorello and I prefer his art, seen in some previous issue, than Giorello's work, althought I like it too

Tim Truman has really done well as a Conan writer but I don't like his art. So, no, thanks. Loved Giorello's art from the beginning and he has significantly improved since then.

[Dave the Rage]

Im pretty sure R.E.H didnt have Cloonan`s version of Conan in his mind when he created him based on his own discriptions which are ''dark scarred face '' and ''tall and powerfully built'' and this ''Conan towered above them, and no two of them could match his strength. They were hardy and robust, but his was the endurance and vitality of a wolf, his thews steeled and his nerves whetted by the hardness of his life in the world’s wastelands''.Dave, Go read Queen of the black coast again then get back to me with what boils down to YOUR interpitation of what Conan looks like .

Since were gonna have a quote fight lets start by pointing out that Howard's interpretation of Conan does not resemble the steroid freaks above for a start.
Also watch out you don't quote some pastiche either, as it is tainted like oil and water, and REH stuff being the good clean oil of Texas lol.

Arus saw a tall powerfully built youth, naked but for a loin-cloth, and sandals strapped high about his ankles. His skin was burned brown as by the suns of the wastelands and Arus glanced nervously at his broad shoulders, massive chest and heavy arms, A single look at the moody, broad-browed features told the watchman the man was no Nemedian. From under a mop of unruly black hair smoldered a pair of dangerous blue eyes. A long sword hung in a leather scabbard at his girdle. GitB

To me this is Conan above, powerfully built youth, dont forget Conan is young and not as stealed from years of battle in the armies in the South of Cimmeria at this point, even though he has forged a name with his kinsmen and Northern tribes in defence and attack of the Vanir. I cant see anyone sayng in Howard's txt, they see a hugely gross steroidal freak of a bull approaching and run for their lives. lol. In any case I am not defending Cloonans take on Conan, as I too think it was smaller than what I liked normally and would rather have seen a bigger Conan which seems to be addressed in the coming comic hopefully. Also given time she could prove to do a good representation of Conan no doubt.

[warrior900]

Im pretty sure R.E.H didnt have Cloonan`s version of Conan in his mind when he created him based on his own discriptions which are ''dark scarred face '' and ''tall and powerfully built'' and this ''Conan towered above them, and no two of them could match his strength. They were hardy and robust, but his was the endurance and vitality of a wolf, his thews steeled and his nerves whetted by the hardness of his life in the world’s wastelands''.Dave, Go read Queen of the black coast again then get back to me with what boils down to YOUR interpitation of what Conan looks like .

Since were gonna have a quote fight lets start by pointing out that Howard's interpretation of Conan does not resemble the steroid freaks above for a start.
Also watch out you don't quote some pastiche either, as it is tainted like oil and water, and REH stuff being the good clean oil of Texas lol.

Arus saw a tall powerfully built youth, naked but for a loin-cloth, and sandals strapped high about his ankles. His skin was burned brown as by the suns of the wastelands and Arus glanced nervously at his broad shoulders, massive chest and heavy arms, A single look at the moody, broad-browed features told the watchman the man was no Nemedian. From under a mop of unruly black hair smoldered a pair of dangerous blue eyes. A long sword hung in a leather scabbard at his girdle. GitB

To me this is Conan above, powerfully built youth, dont forget Conan is young and not as stealed from years of battle in the armies in the South of Cimmeria at this point, even though he has forged a name with his kinsmen and Northern tribes in defence and attack of the Vanir. I cant see anyone sayng in Howard's txt, they see a hugely gross steroidal freak of a bull approaching and run for their lives. lol. In any case I am not defending Cloonans take on Conan, as I too think it was smaller than what I liked normally and would rather have seen a bigger Conan which seems to be addressed in the coming comic hopefully. Also given time she could prove to do a good representation of Conan no doubt.

Above what? Im just using R.E.H `s own words and descriptions. I never used the word steriod. Everytime R.E.H described Conan he did so in a way that would conjure up an image of of someone larger and more powerful than 90% of the other people in his
stories.This is how i perceive Conan when i read Conan, not huge and juiced up, but powerful and dangerous. That conan that Cloonan drew is NOT what someone would envision reading ANY of R.E.H`s stories, sorry.

[Dave the Rage]

Im pretty sure R.E.H didnt have Cloonan`s version of Conan in his mind when he created him based on his own discriptions which are ''dark scarred face '' and ''tall and powerfully built'' and this ''Conan towered above them, and no two of them could match his strength. They were hardy and robust, but his was the endurance and vitality of a wolf, his thews steeled and his nerves whetted by the hardness of his life in the world’s wastelands''.Dave, Go read Queen of the black coast again then get back to me with what boils down to YOUR interpitation of what Conan looks like .

Since were gonna have a quote fight lets start by pointing out that Howard's interpretation of Conan does not resemble the steroid freaks above for a start.
Also watch out you don't quote some pastiche either, as it is tainted like oil and water, and REH stuff being the good clean oil of Texas lol.

Arus saw a tall powerfully built youth, naked but for a loin-cloth, and sandals strapped high about his ankles. His skin was burned brown as by the suns of the wastelands and Arus glanced nervously at his broad shoulders, massive chest and heavy arms, A single look at the moody, broad-browed features told the watchman the man was no Nemedian. From under a mop of unruly black hair smoldered a pair of dangerous blue eyes. A long sword hung in a leather scabbard at his girdle. GitB

To me this is Conan above, powerfully built youth, dont forget Conan is young and not as stealed from years of battle in the armies in the South of Cimmeria at this point, even though he has forged a name with his kinsmen and Northern tribes in defence and attack of the Vanir. I cant see anyone sayng in Howard's txt, they see a hugely gross steroidal freak of a bull approaching and run for their lives. lol. In any case I am not defending Cloonans take on Conan, as I too think it was smaller than what I liked normally and would rather have seen a bigger Conan which seems to be addressed in the coming comic hopefully. Also given time she could prove to do a good representation of Conan no doubt.

Above what? Im just using R.E.H `s own words and descriptions. I never used the word steriod. Everytime R.E.H described Conan he did so in a way that would conjure up an image of of someone larger and more powerful than 90% of the other people in his
stories.This is how i perceive Conan when i read Conan, not huge and juiced up, but powerful and dangerous. That conan that Cloonan drew is NOT what someone would envision reading ANY of R.E.H`s stories, sorry.

ABOVE quote meant the Pictures above my post, with the Spanish Conan. Sorry should have directly quoted it tbh.

So we are in agreement then it seems, as I too love BWS idea of Conan by far than any others. I find muscle developed in the woods of Cimmeria, hued from the cold and wintery blasts of the Northern winds the damp of the hills and the daily hunt would have made Conan no doubt strong and sinewry, though I see him as densely muscled, compacted in a chiselled body that exudes power, one that does not look like he spent 10 hrs a day in the gymn doing supersets. I think as he ages past this story (QotBC) he may have developed somewhat bigger and stronger with the coming years, but tis he not a young welp at this stage, even strong and chested but not got the years of the military service and conquests?

When I defend Cloonan, you need to go back and look at the earlier posts, as it was a discussion on the comic that had came out and we were discussing the difference in Conan's size and that of other attempts at him by other artists, and my belief was that she will get better as did BWS and Buscema etc in the past Warrior. I think we should diffinately give her a chance, as I like some of her other works that I have seen so far. Too many people around me see him as a womanising steroidal freak, when I had the tshirt on a few weeks back some woman made a comment about hope your father isnt like his tshirt!! Seriously what damage has people done to the idea of Conan in the real world? If I was wearing a Tarzan tshirt, would the comments have been different, or A Lord of the Rings one as my daughter does? Strange how my fantasy hero is portrayed to the world at large as ignorant and a womaniser! Does this come from the pastiche or from Howard writings? I think more from the pastiche and the CTB 82 movie more than from Howard, so taking Conan down a noche may do him some good as my daughter for the 1st time in a long time thought he was cool looking in Cloonans and read the comic lol ....... and it wasnt LOTR's, Twilight or Harry Bloody Potter!! Woohooo

My Conan drawn by me is here: link.

Edited by Dave the Rage, 08 March 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[warrior900]

I know maybe 2 people personally that even know who R.E.H is let alone read any of his work, so yes, most people that hear the name Conan think of AAAAANOLD or Conan O`brian haha. Its too bad because they are really missing out on something special. Nice art work btw.

[Dave the Rage]

I know maybe 2 people personally that even know who R.E.H is let alone read any of his work, so yes, most people that hear the name Conan think of AAAAANOLD or Conan O`brian haha. Its too bad because they are really missing out on something special. Nice art work btw.

So true, sadly so true.

Chrs for thumbs up.

I am just hoping sales go up and we get Conan on the up again in my positive posting and blogging on the subject. With the Truman and Gio comic getting over the 10,000 mark for their beautiful effort, which is a crime (it should get double) heres hoping that Woods injection can do positive things for Conan.

[ollonois]

In fact I think 90% of the people in this forum could win a hypothetical fight with Cloonan's Conan...

About the depictions of Conan... in an article in his blog Al Harron said something about doing with Conan in comics something like Grant Morrison and Dave McKean did with Batman in Arkham asylum where he appeared as a shadow, something similar and with batman too has said Ironhand in this thread, a villain perceiving batman as a kind of giant vampire, could be interesting for the fans this kind of treatment for Conan? A comic writer and artist from my town told me he wrote a story set in the hyborian age were an aged gladiator is going to fight his last fight and then retire to a villa with his family and live a quiet life with the money he has earn in his career he is thinking about it as a motivation for that last fight he goes to the arena but unfortunately for him... well, guess who is his opponent...

Edited by ollonois, 09 March 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[ZackDavisson]

my belief was that she will get better as did BWS and Buscema etc in the past Warrior. I think we should diffinately give her a chance

+1. BWS's initial Conan art is pretty bland, just a standard Kirby clone. It didn't get brilliant until later. People seem to forget that. And the same is true about Tomas Giorello. Just read the posts of people picking up his run for the first time, wondering what all the fuss is about. "Wait," we tell them. He mightily improves.

In fact I think 90% of the people in this forum could win a hypothetical fight with Cloonan's Conan...

Do you make the joke here? Or is everyone on this forum secretly a Navy SEAL? Her Conan seemed to do a pretty good job killing everyone around him. Somehow I suspect this is standard-issue internet bravado.

Personally, I couldn't win a fight with Cloonan's Tito, much less her Conan ...