37 replies to this topic

[mario]

Conan  seems to be an untouchable topic in Hollywood since the failure of this years Marcus Nispel film, and it's understandable. it was bashed by critics and fans, and did not make any money for its financers studios etc.
personal feelings toward this movie aside, is there anyone out there either 'in the know' or even 'in the biz' who may know or believe or hell even wanna start a rumor( just saw the wall street sequel lol) that maybe there are people w/ money that are willing to take another chance on the cimmerian slayer believing in the character  or that they can do better? (On any level indie film or otherwise.)
If not the open question is how would you sell this character after a failure like this?

[Swiftsteel]

I know no-one in the industry, but in a perfect world, here's how I'd sell it:

First, I'd license it to Marvel. I've said this before and I know many might disagree which is fine...but that's my opinion in terms of what would be best for the property. Consider it a melding of mutually exclusive, yet also mutually beneficial entities to create a symbiotic relationship that would benefit both. Like Wendy's and Tim Horton's here in Canada! LOL! Like it or not, that's how the world works so why not take advantage - with certain 'quality issue' contractual conditions of course - of that for Conan's sake!?!

I'd basically turn back the clock. It would be 1970-1980 all over again, only this time Conan would go straight to the silver screen as opposed to the printed page. I'd tag Roy Thomas as screenwriter, Guillermo Del Toro to direct, and Paul Telfer (sorry - I liked Momoa a lot too - but any reboot HAS to distance itself from the Nispel disaster to succeed) in the lead. I'd schedule release for Summer of 2013 or 14, and in the meantime, build a slow interest via colour re-releases of the entire Thomas colour series run in graphic novel format (and actually get them in EVERY book chain!), a licensed series of Buscema & Smith inspired action figures of all major characters as part of the 'Marvel Legends' series, and a serious hour-long documentary on a major cable network chronicling the character's rise from Howard's pen through various other incarnations up to the present. Focus would be on how much 'rights issues' have infringed upon how the character has been portrayed and received by general audiences over the years, with the emphasis being put on how much more closely the new reboot would try to address that issue. With Thomas at the helm staying true to Howard in conjunction with Marvel's studio clout and sheer $$$-power...it could be a winner. Overall I'd approach it as a series of 'Harry Potter' scope, aiming for six complete films to chronicle the entire epic.

In terms of story direction for the first film I'd go as follows:

Open with a camera-pan of Howard's empty room full of copies of Weird Tales, unfinished manuscripts, and his famous 'gangster hat' sitting lonely on the desk. The camera would pan out of the open window through fluttering drapes into the night sky and to the moon. Now the camera pans back from the moon to show a fantastical landscape gradually lit to reveal '...shining kingdoms shimmering like blue mantles beneath the stars..'. The music swells now as we continue with Anthony Hopkins narrating the Nemedian Chronicles over a visual montage of suitable imagery. Enter the grim silhouette of Conan riding, fighting, etc, as - over a 5 minute narrative - his exploits breaking a wild Cimmerian bull's neck, storming Venarium, and leaving Cimmeria after a blood feud are told, along with images of him climbing towers, storming through war, wenching and carousing, and finally upholding a crown are foreshadowed. Run the opening credits...

From here I'd link several Howard tales via an episodic 'Sin City' approach. First up would be (@ 1/2 an hour) 'The Frost Giant's Daughter' as a fantastic intro to Conan. From here I'd segue via continued narrative from Hopkins into Conan's capture by the Hyperboreans and wanderings south, tying together - in order - 'The Tower Of the Elephant' (40 minutes), 'The God In the Bowl' (40 minutes), and finally 'Rogues In the House' (1 hour) - giving Thomas freedom to say, introduce/foreshadow Thoth Amon (maybe the guy who played Imhotep in 'The Mummy') via GITB as THE major villain who will appear again later in the series. Otherwise...straight Howard - only, again, licensed and distributed via the Marvel 'Machine'.

For the second film I'd do a more or less straight-up 3 hour adaptation of 'Queen Of the Black Coast', only with either Thomas's 'Abombi' or 'Belit-avenging-her-father-against-the-Stygians' storyline put in the middle before ending with the accepted 'Zarkheba' finale.

The third film would combine 'Black Colossus' and 'A Witch Shall Be Born' into one 3 hour story. Heck...shoot me if you will, but I'd even try to find a way to incorporate Thomas's Red Sonja character in here somewhere leading to a spinoff of her own. It could be done. Face it...not EVERY aspect of this can stay TOTALLY Howard if it's to appeal to a broad audience. We can get close though. Closer than has been the case to date.

The fourth would be page-for-page faithful to 'Red Nails' @ 2 hours.

The fifth would be a combination of 'Beyond the Black River' melded with 'The Black Stranger' @ 3 hours.

The sixth and final film would combine abridged elements from 'Phoenix On the Sword' with a straight adaptation of 'Hour Of the Dragon' @ 3 hours.

Marketed properly as a serious REBOOT, with great trailers, an emphasis on how to date NO-ONE has truly done the character justice, and tie-ins with toys, comics, games etc...Conan could become a major player again. The key aspect however would be taking the financial risk of really pushing the character and all things related to it in the public's face. Make it impossible to go anywhere without seeing something Conan-related. I want a new line of Marvel comics! I want action figures! I want Slurpee cups! I want SNL parodies! I want kid's Halloween costumes! Do it all! That's how KISS did it. That's how Marvel did it with their own characters. That's how Batman's franchise-holders have done it. You SATURATE people with it whether they like it or not...and believe me...it works. If you build it...they WILL come! Crom!

Edited by Swiftsteel, 11 December 2011 - 10:49 PM.

[NobleSavage]

i agree with swiftsteel...problem is, that a conan film, made by marvel couldn't be as hardcore as it should..besides punisher: war-zone , i can't really think of any other non "kiddy" film they licenced..still if they approached it like they do with all their other films and roy thomas did the script, i think it could turn out as realy something great!

[mario]

how we want make the movie is all fine and good but ,my main question is who's buying? or whos even interested?And how would you sell these?I think swiftsteel as you said ,focusing on rights issues and convincing potential financers about how this character ( for all our diverging opinions on the various incarnations of conan as a pop character put aside; i like alot of them too) has never been done as REh intended, and that there is a treasure trove of writing to be exploited ( for lack of a better term,) in film, maybe there is a start.
But again who could be listening? Any fans out there w/connections( not of the organized crime sort either) in the business with thoughts on how this could happen? Forgot to mention it doesnt have to be film either.The comic book alone wont be abe to do it.

[Swiftsteel]

I think the ultimate argument to be made to any potential buyers would be simply that, just because something has been handled badly in the past, does not negate the possibility of it being handled better in the future. I mean...Good Lord! How many poor Tarzan movies/TV shows have been made over the years!?! Dozens (the Wolf Larsen and Joe Lando incarnations immediately spring to mind! LOL!)! Same with Batman (Ah-Nuld as Mr. Freeze anyone!?!). And yet both are still considered very viable franchises (I hear a new Tarzan trilogy is in the works as we speak by example!) regardless. Why? Because for every flop someone has been willing to come along and say 'Okay then, let's try and top that.'. It's that simple. Heck...if not Marvel...why not HBO? Why not a 'Game Of Thrones'-style television series purely Howardian in scope with ALL of the stories presented in an episodic format!?!

Point is this - Conan can still be resurrected too. For some reason however, everyone on earth seems to want to wring their hands in confusion over the issue when what should be done is some good ol' fashioned risk-taking and lateral thinking. Just get the character out there for Crom's sakes! Run it up the flagpole again, and again, and again until eventually people salute. Whatever anyone thinks of the 80's films, they did just that and to a great degree it worked. The third episode - 'Conan the Conqueror' (which eventually morphed into the IMO awful Sorbo vehicle 'Kull the Conqueror' instead after many re-writes) would have come out in '87 had Schwarzenegger been interested, but instead he decided to play a rogue cyborg out to destroy the planet and go gallavanting through Belize fighting alien monsters. Because Ah-Nuld was so iconic at the time, I guess his absence gave producers cold feet as to the project's potential investment quality. Big mistake! What they should have done is cast either Lundgren, some wrestler with reasonable acting chops, or yes (Ymir blast me with frosty wrath for saying so!)... even Sorbo. Why not? It would have kept the franchise alive. People would have stayed interested. We'd have yet another film installment to praise/bash here on this forum. What would have been wrong with that?

Both potential investors, and us - the fans - need to stop all the hand-wringing and just get Conan back out there. Obviously I'm not so addled as to want to do so with no quality control whatsoever. As my personal story-arc outline in my initial post reveals, I'm definitely open to compromise where the character is concerned, but would still want to keep things rooted in at least 80-85% REH. This approach, or something very like it should not be such a hard sell. Especially not with a property nigh 100 years old now with a multi-generational, built-in audience already slavering at the mouth for product. If not enough butts ended up in theater seats the last time round there were reasons for that, but none of it had to do with the inherent lack of appeal in the character. It had to do with poor product and marketing. Fix that...and you still have a potential blockbuster.

[monk]

honestly, selling it is not that tough.

Game of Thrones.

Lord of the Rings.

True Grit.

but right now some space needs to happen and the right people who love Howard need to come together who have the right connections.

hey we can all dream lol.

[Almuric]

Folks . . . there will be another Conan movie.

Hell, there's serious talk of a fourth Punisher movie, and the first three were all flops. There's still the fond memories of the Milius version, and with Hollywood pathologically afraid of taking risks on unproven franchises, we will get another crack at a Conan movie. It's a sure thing. Only the end of the movie industry could prevent it.

[THE KID]

Before selling it - The million dollar questions are who's making it, directing it, and starring in it and what's the driving motivation for the film? Swiftsteel - some good story telling ideas.

Edited by Richard, 13 December 2011 - 02:16 AM.

[norse_sage]

Folks . . . there will be another Conan movie.

Hell, there's serious talk of a fourth Punisher movie, and the first three were all flops. There's still the fond memories of the Milius version, and with Hollywood pathologically afraid of taking risks on unproven franchises, we will get another crack at a Conan movie. It's a sure thing. Only the end of the movie industry could prevent it.

False logic.
The Punisher has MARVEL to pick up the pieces.
Conan has studio execs believing that only Arnold can be Conan, and more recently, that Conan hasn't got a viable fanbase.

(For the record, there is no talk of a new Punisher movie, but a new Punisher TV series. And not the HBO kind that fans want, but a watered down Dexter ripoff by Fox, which recycles everything Punisher fans hated about the movies)

[gungnir_1972]

There's a few movies out there based on marvel characters that were pretty bad...Ang Lee's Hulk,Daredevil,Fantastic Four,Ghost Rider but that hasn't stopped movie makers from improving on past attempts and improving on them,The incredible Hulk,The directors cut of DD,Rise of the Silver Surfer and The new Ghost Rider in my mind are all improvements to me.How many crappy Batman movies did we go through before we got Begins and the Dark Knight?The Man of Steel movie is sure to be better received than Superman Returns.The point I'm trying to make is that despite how bad some people thought some of these movies were..there were those that liked them and studios who were willing to take the risk of making more movies about them.I liked the new Conan film yes it has some pretty big flaws but so do most of the films I've mentioned yet they still managed to have sequels or reboots made.If there's a In the name of the King 2 being made and A Scorpion King 3 made then I gotta believe that a sequel to Conan 2011 can be made,Even if people think its as bad as say Batman Forever so to speak.There are plenty of people out there with nothing but praise for Jason Momoa's Conan and would love to see him get a second shot..I myself think he deserves it,Just because a first attempt doesn't work our well doesn't mean a second attempt won't and I'm pretty sure there are movie studios that believe that.Hopefully despite all the negative flak the first film received someone somewhere will capitalize on Conan's potential as a movie franchise.

[Almuric]

To me, the issue as never been if there will be another Conan movie, but what form it will take. Will it move closer to Howard, or will the filmmakers take refuge in warmed-over Arnie leftovers? That's the issue.

Edited by Almuric, 13 December 2011 - 05:48 PM.

[mario]

great input all,my question isnt about so much about the form it takes and who stars in it ( and I absolutely agree that Momoa gets another crack at it.)or whats adapted, my question is who is going to invest in it?a project needs to be greenlit before those other things get worked out, who's willing to take a chance?I wouldnt think paradox would want to do it with millenium/ lionsgate again, but on the other token, who wants to touch the property right now and give it its due?with marvel/disney or dc/warner , they have ll the money influence and time to make a movie and reboot it to their liking(financial and artistic).
Being all big fans of rEH and conan we all like to believe it would sell itself, but is it really the case? i'm really not asking these questions to put a damper on any possibilities I really just would like to know objectively how it could be done. In any form, tv games movies,I would love for this to happen and i think if there are people 'in the know' reading ,how do you get the ball rolling again ?

[gungnir_1972]

I hope they continue with the direction the've started..at least visually.I think Jason is a better Conan than Arnold.The way he looks and moves is far better than Arnold's performance.Iv'e watched both the current and the 82 version many times and Jason wins hands down.No direspect to Arnold or Arnold fans but He would be hard pressed to pull of what Jason did with the sand warriors scenes.Hes just more quick,agile and displays better sword skills than Shwartznegger ever did.I love the 82 version,I just like the 2011 version better.Arnold has made some killer movies,Terminator,Commando,Total Recall and of course Predator,that being said I liked the Predators movies as well as The Alien vs Predators movies,Liked Termimator Salvation too and Im as big of fan of Arnold as any any but these movies were pretty decent without him.I mean do you think Hollywood would bank on a Conan movie with Arnold?,or even one with Roland Kickinger?I dont think Conan is tied to Arnold fans as it used to be.Arnold doesn't have the same draw as he used to.Hollywood has shown that he can be replaced...maybe not replaced but at least substituted.Rebooting his movies or recasting the lead roles does'nt mean were being fed "left overs",or that a francise he made popular cant suceed without him..I dont think Hollywood thinks that either.

[monk]

all i would need would be the budget for Valhalla Rising.

[Swiftsteel]

Whoever invests in the next one - and I do firmly believe there will be a 'next one'...one day - simply has to be a bit of a risk-taker. They have to have faith in the source material, a well-defined artistic vision, $$$ to invest in a serious marketing campaign beginning well ahead of the shooting schedule, and an understanding of the fact that this is a long-running property with obvious appeal. Selling it to people shouldn't be that hard. Personally I feel that was the big blunder with this last effort. As much as I've personally panned it both here and elsewhere, I don't mind admitting that repeated viewings have softened my opinion A LOT. I now actually quite enjoy it and 'get' where say, guys like amsterdamaged and other boosters of the film were coming from. I originally wrote a scathing, 12 page review for my Facebook page and have been quite happy to follow that up with a much different, post-DVD-release re-review documenting why I now feel I was wrong to totally bash the thing the first time around. Technically speaking (i.e. the writing, shooting style, etc...) sure, there are still obvious problems, but it's not like it was worlds different from a lot of other similiar fare which has done well. All that aside though...I still maintain that the big blunder with this was Lionsgate's bewildering lack of marketing savvy. This should have had a MUCH bigger push via various advertising mediums than it did. All I ever saw was the shoddy teaser trailer, the admittedly decent trailer (which came out WAAAYYY too late in the game though!), and one or two IMO weak TV spots. Why wasn't Momoa's face on every magazine cover? Every chick I know slobbers over that guy. He could have sold this on sex appeal alone! Where was the 'Entertainment Tonight' profile? Where was Ah-Nuld (via a little under the table payola of course) giving it his blessing and 'good word' in a passing-on-the-baton spirit of support? Where were the toy tie-ins? Why, through the whole buildup to this could I not find ONE Conan novel, graphic novel, or other Howard work in my local Chapters? Where was the 'big' Comicon presence? I've heard it wasn't much to write home about. Why weren't there posters up in subways and bus terminals? Where was the BUZZ, man!?! Bottom line: If one wasn't already a Conan fan with one's finger held firmly on 'the pulse' as we are here, I can totally see how this film would have passed one by. Box office returns seem to indicate that it passed A LOT of folks by. Relying on word of mouth from a relatively small group of core superfans is no way to get butts in seats come opening night. You have to PUSH things at the public.

This is a big reason why I'd personally like to see Marvel take the reins. It'll take a big player like them, with smarts, savvy, $$$, a built-in audience, and an understanding of how to market a character of such pedigree, to make Conan's next kick at the proverbial mead barrel a successful one. Look at how 'Thor' took off. Of all the Marvel characters, that was one that could have flopped and flopped HARD. It could have been a bad joke. Like...Bret-Michaels-flying-through-the-air-in-a-cape-BAD! LOL! But it wasn't. It was a gigantic success. They MADE it work. They made people who have never cracked open an issue of Thor, let alone read a Norse fable in their life flop open their wallets and go see it multiple times that summer. That said, given their successful time together in the past with the Cimmerian as a licensed property, it stands to reason in my opinion that - given Marvel's current success rate - they'd make ideal producers for another film venture. I'm certain there are already people there who would be interested. Internet gossip already suggests Stan Lee himself would like another crack at the character. They'd just need to cement a vision, direction, and game plan for how to approach the project. Stranger things have happened.

[monk]

It needs someone like clint eastwood or gibson or jackson. maybe stephen king.

[mario]

and that just it , who do you pitch it to(and you should paradox, dont let one failure deter you) and how do you sell it.There was some promotion here(ny) but not nearly enough, especially compared to the expendables which was the audience they thought this movie would grab if you remember.And I'm not crying over that,look who was in the expendables fer ymirs sake, thats a movie that could sell itself no matter how good or bad anyone thought it was.
i'm glad you ended up enjoying Conan. I thought it was good myself. and though I wont get any more personal than this as far as the movie ( there is another thread for reviews after all) I didnt think it deserved what it got.

[Munthasem]

From the very begining on, this movie had that "something's missing" aura. As far as perfect crew for this job concerns, I'd like to see Ridley Scott make it. I'd like to see something with more weight, depth and broad richness in the story, characters, style, soundtrack, overall tone and feeling that movie brings to the audience. Personally, I'd like it to look more like Gladiator, Robin Hood or the 13'th warrior. I don't know, but the whole thing (this Nispel's movie), lacks some spice in it. No matter how many times I watch it, it seems somewhat dead.

Edited by Munthasem, 15 December 2011 - 10:46 AM.

[monk]

that's because it's basically an overblown video game.

[gungnir_1972]

I Have been waiting for a good Conan movie for a long time...and I really liked this movie,I was dead set against Jason when he was first cast but he made the role his own,If the movie has been a big hit...everyone would eagerly awaiting the sequel,I still want to see it.I agree that this movie didn't have the marketing push that it should have...and negative word of mouth killed a lot of enthusiasm for it.I agree with Munthasem Id like to see Ridley Scott or the people who put did The Centurian or Spartacus or Game of Thrones.As much as I likes this film I know it could've been that much better.Gladiator,Robin Hood and 13th Warrior are some of my favorite movies..Vladmir Kulick is awesome...he was in 13th Warrior and more recently in Ironclad.A good Conan movie can be made...one that pleases most everyone you just gotta get the right people in there to make it happen.Jason had every box checked in my mind except the blue eyes...That's not to say they couldn't recast the role with an actor even better suited for the role.I don't know who that might be.