23 replies to this topic

[keny from prague]

I usually liked when Roy Thomas adapted the REH conan stories into savage sword of conan. some of them are really good. even quite a few De camp stories were adapted well.

But i dont always like when Roy took a REH character with a story and changed it into a conan tale. The most blatant of these was "shadow of the vulture" which took an inportant historical event and a couple of great characters and either changed one and replaced the other.

other non-conan stories that did not work as conan ones for me include "road of eagles", there was no reason to add the bat creatures into the tombs. conan stories dont have to have a supernatural element as a matter of course. Savage sword #228 featured a conanization of one of my favourite crusader tales "lion of tiberias" in which conan turns invisible for a time. ugh. An early issue of SSOC had the turlogh o-brien story the "dark man" rewritten to feature "brule" as the pict statue. It doesnt work because Conan acts like Turlough, quite out of character. the same thing happened when Conan replaced Cormac Fitzgeoffrey in SSOC #222, hawks of oultremer. It just didnt feel like conan in that one.

the downfalls of these tales, in my opinion, are either Conan acting more like the original character than himself. or a lame attempt to shoehorn in supernatural elements that were not there.

A few non-conan stories that adapted well for me were "lost vally of Iskander" and "Hawks over Egypt/Shem". but im not sure exactly why.

Any non-conan stories that were adapted well, in your opinion? might help jog my memory.

[Dave the Rage]

I liked the one about the winged demons, loosely or either adapted from Sol Kane story Wings int the Night (Which reminded me of Almuric). Can't recall the names of the Thomas adaption though? The story Bal Saggoth was adapted from Turlogh O'Brien story which was printed in Weird Tales in 1931. It is a decent read and I think Thomas does a good job in that when he puts Conan in the frame. The hatred of the Vanir and not helping them at all, and wanting to rip them asunder, then they become friends and fight together was right up there with Conan in my eyes. I reread it tonight just to see how it flowed and it was better than some of the other adaptations in respect to feeling like a Conan story.

[Taranaich]

In a way, adapting non-Conan REH stories into Conan tales serves to illustrate why those characters aren't just Conan surrogates. Take "Twilight of the Grim Grey God": replacing the Irish and Norse with Brythunians and Hyperboreans is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bad idea, but placing Conan in Conn's place is ludicrous. There's no way Conan would submit to slavery the way Conn did, even if he did make a bloody escape. Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh. "The Dark Man" wasn't a bad idea, but it really loses something when you consider the Picts of the Hyborian Age are hardly a dying breed.

About the only time I think this did work was "People of the Dark," and that's probably because Conan of the Reavers was more similar to the Cimmerian than Turlogh or Cormac were. I did like "Lost Valley of Iskander" for the ingenious method Thomas used to get Alexander into the Hyborian Age, though the story itself didn't hold up as strongly.

[keny from prague]

In a way, adapting non-Conan REH stories into Conan tales serves to illustrate why those characters aren't just Conan surrogates. Take "Twilight of the Grim Grey God": replacing the Irish and Norse with Brythunians and Hyperboreans is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bad idea, but placing Conan in Conn's place is ludicrous. There's no way Conan would submit to slavery the way Conn did, even if he did make a bloody escape. Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh. "The Dark Man" wasn't a bad idea, but it really loses something when you consider the Picts of the Hyborian Age are hardly a dying breed.

About the only time I think this did work was "People of the Dark," and that's probably because Conan of the Reavers was more similar to the Cimmerian than Turlogh or Cormac were. I did like "Lost Valley of Iskander" for the ingenious method Thomas used to get Alexander into the Hyborian Age, though the story itself didn't hold up as strongly.

i think you hit the nail on the head, what i was thinking about in my ramblings. many might see some REH characters as interchangable but they are not. as you say these stories point it out. i read the conanized comic version of hawks of outremer long before i read the original. i remember thinking conan was acting very unconan-like, very cold and calculating. only after reading the prose version with cormac fitzgeoffry did i realise why. it wasnt a conan story at all.

i think thats why almost all of the best conan comics are adapted straight from actual conan reh stories. the non-conan ones rarely work in hyperboria.

[amster]

I liked the one about the winged demons, loosely or either adapted from Sol Kane story Wings int the Night (Which reminded me of Almuric). Can't recall the names of the Thomas adaption though?

Perhaps you're referring to The Garden of Fear, adapted by the Steve Allison story by thomas and BW Smith?

In a way, adapting non-Conan REH stories into Conan tales serves to illustrate why those characters aren't just Conan surrogates. Take "Twilight of the Grim Grey God": replacing the Irish and Norse with Brythunians and Hyperboreans is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bad idea, but placing Conan in Conn's place is ludicrous. There's no way Conan would submit to slavery the way Conn did, even if he did make a bloody escape. Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh. "The Dark Man" wasn't a bad idea, but it really loses something when you consider the Picts of the Hyborian Age are hardly a dying breed.

About the only time I think this did work was "People of the Dark," and that's probably because Conan of the Reavers was more similar to the Cimmerian than Turlogh or Cormac were.

Perhaps I'm more forgiving than you. The fact that in most cases I read the comic adaptions before the original version definately colored my perception of them. Case in point...

I did like "Lost Valley of Iskander" for the ingenious method Thomas used to get Alexander into the Hyborian Age, though the story itself didn't hold up as strongly.

Revoke my purist license, but I still prefer the Thomas version, primarily because Bardylis' sex was changed in order to be Conan's romantic interest. I just think the story works better that way, and I'm still baffled why REH didn't write it that way to begin with. I suppose since the comic version was my introduction to the story, Bardylis as merely a male side-kick seemed off to me, and still does. And in the comic version there was the tension about whether or not Conan would resist temptation and remain faithful to Belit, and I thought it worked nicely into the larger story arc.

I also thought the Savage Sword of Conan Super Special Revenge of the Buccanner, adapted from Black Vulmea's Vengence, worked rather well. Here we have a Conan story adapted from a non-Conan story based on a character who first appeared in in a non-Conan story that was a rewritten Conan story!

[Dave the Rage]

Thanks Amster it was indeed the James Allison Hunwolf story, which to be honest got me confused with Almuric abit, don't know why. IT seems Howard loved his winged demons, from Sol Kane story about the winged people striking from the dark at night (Wings in the Night) , to Allison reliving his prehistoric past with the flying beast in the Tower and Almuric (Esau Cairns) going to free his beloved from the flying beast on the planet.

The Garden of Fear I liked alot actually as an adaption, (reread it after Amster pointed it out). The Cavemen shouting in their foreign tongue at conan 'NADDA TRODON!' and with Jemma in tow. What made me see it as a good Conan story was the small parts like Conan dancing in the firelight with wreckless abandonment as if he was back home with his Cimmerian people partying hard. Especially the part when the winged demon throws the man to the man eating plants and they turn to red, brilliant. Had all the bits needed for a good comic tale, with a beastie and girl and strange plants and prehistoric lands. Not very Hyborian at times, felt more out of place as a setting grant you that, but still a good yarn.

I tried to find it in my bookshelf again to read it, I have read it somewhere or I have lent it out and never got it back. Can you direct me to a book with this story in it guys, save me looking it up on web? (Garden of Fear original Hunwulf that is?).

Edited by Dave the Rage, 26 January 2012 - 01:29 AM.

[Almuric]

Though it was adapted from a Prester John novel by Norvell Page, I have always been a big fan of Flame Winds, from CtB 32-34. Something about Page's wild imagination and reckless narative lent itself to be adapted into a Conan story.

[emerald]

<sup>The Thomas/Buscema/DeZuniga adaptation of The Flame Knife is my favorite two issues of Savage Sword of Conan.

It's hard for me to get too grumpy about de Camp's Conanization of REH's non-Conan tales when comics like that could result from the practice.</sup>

[johnnypt]

I tried to find it in my bookshelf again to read it, I have read it somewhere or I have lent it out and never got it back. Can you direct me to a book with this story in it guys, save me looking it up on web? (Garden of Fear original Hunwulf that is?).

I have it in Baen's Eons of the Night. Unfortunately it's not in any of the Del Reys.

[amster]

I tried to find it in my bookshelf again to read it, I have read it somewhere or I have lent it out and never got it back. Can you direct me to a book with this story in it guys, save me looking it up on web? (Garden of Fear original Hunwulf that is?).

I have it in Baen's Eons of the Night. Unfortunately it's not in any of the Del Reys.

The most recent publications are in Weird Works vol 2, and Conan's Brethren. Hey Dave, have you checked out this site?

http://howardworks.com/

[keny from prague]

I

Revoke my purist license, but I still prefer the Thomas version, primarily because Bardylis' sex was changed in order to be Conan's romantic interest. I just think the story works better that way, and I'm still baffled why REH didn't write it that way to begin with. I suppose since the comic version was my introduction to the story, Bardylis as merely a male side-kick seemed off to me, and still does. And in the comic version there was the tension about whether or not Conan would resist temptation and remain faithful to Belit, and I thought it worked nicely into the larger story arc.

I agree. I was a bit shocked to find out that Bardylis was a man in the story when i read it. Although it did make more sense that a male Bardylis would be wandering alone in the mountains. But as Conan was a much more lustful guy than el borak he probably more appreciated a greek wench than a lad.

Knowing out barbarian, i dont think he resisted.

[Taranaich]

Perhaps I'm more forgiving than you. The fact that in most cases I read the comic adaptions before the original version definately colored my perception of them.

Well, I'm not saying they aren't great pieces of work or anything: as it is, "Twilight of the Grim Grey God" is really quite excellent and mythic, one of the very best of the comics: I just think that the changes made to fit it into Conan's world damaged more than aided it.

Revoke my purist license, but I still prefer the Thomas version, primarily because Bardylis' sex was changed in order to be Conan's romantic interest. I just think the story works better that way, and I'm still baffled why REH didn't write it that way to begin with. I suppose since the comic version was my introduction to the story, Bardylis as merely a male side-kick seemed off to me, and still does. And in the comic version there was the tension about whether or not Conan would resist temptation and remain faithful to Belit, and I thought it worked nicely into the larger story arc.

Funny you mention that, since that's precisely why I didn't like it, and one of the main sticking points I had with "The Lurker Within." Changing a character's gender is problematic enough, but changing the character into Conan's love interest - as if you couldn't just have a female character without tying them in romantically - just rubbed me the wrong way. It would be like changing Balthus into a girl. We already have plenty of Conan stories where he has a love interest: does he really need one in every damn story?

[Dave the Rage]

I have it in Baen's Eons of the Night. Unfortunately it's not in any of the Del Reys.

The most recent publications are in Weird Works vol 2, and Conan's Brethren. Hey Dave, have you checked out this site?

http://howardworks.com/

The story seems scattered about abit, I have some books with some stories in one edition and then in another, for instance the El Borak and collected stories have cross overs. I start reading them and then realise hold up horsey, I have read you before then think it is a Conan redone or pastiches extended, then realise its in the other book beside me lol. (and continue reading again )

Thks again Ams, indeed I have seen this but alas I forgot ordered today!
http://howardworks.com/storyg.htm#gard

[deuce]

Probably "The House of Arabu" or "Hawks Over Egypt".

[deuce]

In a way, adapting non-Conan REH stories into Conan tales serves to illustrate why those characters aren't just Conan surrogates. Take "Twilight of the Grim Grey God": replacing the Irish and Norse with Brythunians and Hyperboreans is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bad idea, but placing Conan in Conn's place is ludicrous. There's no way Conan would submit to slavery the way Conn did, even if he did make a bloody escape. Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh. "The Dark Man" wasn't a bad idea, but it really loses something when you consider the Picts of the Hyborian Age are hardly a dying breed.

About the only time I think this did work was "People of the Dark," and that's probably because Conan of the Reavers was more similar to the Cimmerian than Turlogh or Cormac were. I did like "Lost Valley of Iskander" for the ingenious method Thomas used to get Alexander into the Hyborian Age, though the story itself didn't hold up as strongly.

i think you hit the nail on the head, what i was thinking about in my ramblings. many might see some REH characters as interchangable but they are not. as you say these stories point it out. i read the conanized comic version of hawks of outremer long before i read the original. i remember thinking conan was acting very unconan-like, very cold and calculating. only after reading the prose version with cormac fitzgeoffry did i realise why. it wasnt a conan story at all.

i think thats why almost all of the best conan comics are adapted straight from actual conan reh stories. the non-conan ones rarely work in hyboria.

Despite what LSdC said, Howard's protagonists are NOT "interchangeable". To an an unschooled outsider all might "look alike", but THAT is simply a case of "profiling".

[Dave the Rage]

In a way, adapting non-Conan REH stories into Conan tales serves to illustrate why those characters aren't just Conan surrogates. Take "Twilight of the Grim Grey God": replacing the Irish and Norse with Brythunians and Hyperboreans is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bad idea, but placing Conan in Conn's place is ludicrous. There's no way Conan would submit to slavery the way Conn did, even if he did make a bloody escape. Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh. "The Dark Man" wasn't a bad idea, but it really loses something when you consider the Picts of the Hyborian Age are hardly a dying breed.

About the only time I think this did work was "People of the Dark," and that's probably because Conan of the Reavers was more similar to the Cimmerian than Turlogh or Cormac were. I did like "Lost Valley of Iskander" for the ingenious method Thomas used to get Alexander into the Hyborian Age, though the story itself didn't hold up as strongly.

i think you hit the nail on the head, what i was thinking about in my ramblings. many might see some REH characters as interchangable but they are not. as you say these stories point it out. i read the conanized comic version of hawks of outremer long before i read the original. i remember thinking conan was acting very unconan-like, very cold and calculating. only after reading the prose version with cormac fitzgeoffry did i realise why. it wasnt a conan story at all.

i think thats why almost all of the best conan comics are adapted straight from actual conan reh stories. the non-conan ones rarely work in hyboria.

Despite what LSdC said, Howard's protagonists are NOT "interchangeable". To an an unschooled outsider all might "look alike", but THAT is simply a case of "profiling".

I have to concur. The speach is not correct from Conan's lip and the type of personailty traits tooo. Like Woods Conan and REH Conan whimpering in jail etc.

[Fernando]

Same with "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth": Conan just isn't as gloomy and sombre as Turlogh.

And even more ridiculous was placing Bal-Sagoth in the Sea of Vilayet - it's like placing New York in the Middle East, or Baghdad in China!

[Ironhand]

After some thought, I think I like the "The House of Arabu" adaptation the best.

[Dave the Rage]

Some stories though were interchangeable such as 'Two against Tyre' supposedly a story about a Gaul barbarian etc, was changed into a good comic story by Thomas as 'Two against Turan' issue 26 I think and CoC number 5 too. It reads well and tells a good yarn, with wizards and gems and men at the call and becken of fools. Conan seems really in character in this. Then again, it is down to how much Thomas added into the story as in magic and chases etc. So should this be seen as a Howard story at all? Guess that for me is a no, but a Thomas story.

Love this bit: When Conan is hanging from a ring on the roof in the hall, it begins to break and he flashes an eye and then drops down behind the patrolling guards. HE then says "Crom's devils does nothing work in this place".

Edited by Dave the Rage, 31 July 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[1980conanfan]

i vote for blood jewel of bel hissor

Edited by 1980conanfan, 03 August 2012 - 11:57 PM.