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Conan The Barbarian #5


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#21 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan , or should I say a MANGA version: the cimmerian appears jumpy, small, skinny, bleached, his eyes and mouth seem to correspond to the manga standards and yaoi overtones (suffices to observe the composition on this dumb cover) are present more than ever.

I am extremely upset to see Dark Horse is following these DESPICABLE trends. There are some (rare) mangas which are well drawn and not cliche, but Dark Horse seems to force the Conan fans to accept "new" standards for Conan with the excuse that Conan is depicted "during his youth". Is that skinny character supposed to have broken a BULL'S NECK not long ago?
Why is Conan bleached and striking some manga-esque pose while his opponent is twice as big, twice as muscular and hairy? Conan is supposed to be a VERY TALL MAN even in his late teen years.

Many fans think Boris drew Conan in a way that was too "rigid" , too "statuesque", but Boris showed us a mighty Conan leagues beyond this young manga twerp acting like a ninja depicted on this cover.

#22 ZackDavisson

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:33 PM

. There are some (rare) mangas which are well drawn and not cliche,


Wow. Saying that is essentially proclaiming "I know absolutely nothing about manga!"

You do realize that in terms of sheer volume, there are about 100 manga for every American comic, and that the US can't compete with Japan in terms of art style and variety of comics. There is no such thing as a "manga standard."

I lived in Japan for about seven years. I saw manga drawn in every style imaginable, from ultra-realistic to ultra-cartoony, to stylized underground stuff, to ... well, pretty much everything.

Say what you want about that picture, but comparing it to manga is just pure ignorance.

#23 mikoza

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan


More than that! I think that Mr. Carnevale is deliberatly making a bad cover, just to joke with all of us!
Do you want proof? Here it is...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by mikoza, 29 February 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#24 Almuric

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:11 PM

Conan of Neverland.
"It is more than a mortal sea. Your hands are red with blood and you follow a red sea-path, yet the fault is not wholly with you. Almighty God, when will the reign of blood cease?"

Turlogh shook his head. "Not so long as the race lasts."


--- The Dark Man, by Robert E. Howard

#25 Aquilonia

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:19 PM

Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan , or should I say a MANGA version: the cimmerian appears jumpy, small, skinny, bleached, his eyes and mouth seem to correspond to the manga standards and yaoi overtones (suffices to observe the composition on this dumb cover) are present more than ever.

I am extremely upset to see Dark Horse is following these DESPICABLE trends. There are some (rare) mangas which are well drawn and not cliche, but Dark Horse seems to force the Conan fans to accept "new" standards for Conan with the excuse that Conan is depicted "during his youth". Is that skinny character supposed to have broken a BULL'S NECK not long ago?
Why is Conan bleached and striking some manga-esque pose while his opponent is twice as big, twice as muscular and hairy? Conan is supposed to be a VERY TALL MAN even in his late teen years.

Many fans think Boris drew Conan in a way that was too "rigid" , too "statuesque", but Boris showed us a mighty Conan leagues beyond this young manga twerp acting like a ninja depicted on this cover.


You are forgetting that maybe, like Amster said, the guy with the mace is Conan, not the opposite, he, he.

#26 PaulMc

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:29 PM

Dark Horse have jumped the megashark on this title, if this cover is any indication.

Regardless of style, they just aren't getting Conan *right*. Evidenced by the mace-wielder at least, looking correct.

-- Paul McNamee

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#27 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:07 PM


Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan


More than that! I think that Mr. Carnevale is deliberatly making a bad cover, just to joke with all of us!
Do you want proof? Here it is...


You just summed it up!!
The worst part would be the thumbs business, reminds me of Tuthankamun's throne (Tut is depicted with two left hands).
The hand holding the dagger is pretty Fed up as well, I bet you Carnevale would say it's seen as through a fish eye, to emphasize the action, but it would be just a sloppy way to defend this absurdity.
Conan's position is reminiscent of shonen manga crap, whatever manga fanatics have to say.

#28 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:24 PM


. There are some (rare) mangas which are well drawn and not cliche,


Wow. Saying that is essentially proclaiming "I know absolutely nothing about manga!"

You do realize that in terms of sheer volume, there are about 100 manga for every American comic, and that the US can't compete with Japan in terms of art style and variety of comics. There is no such thing as a "manga standard."

I lived in Japan for about seven years. I saw manga drawn in every style imaginable, from ultra-realistic to ultra-cartoony, to stylized underground stuff, to ... well, pretty much everything.

Say what you want about that picture, but comparing it to manga is just pure ignorance.

As soon as someone criticizes a style, he becomes an "absolute ignorant" right?

It's not "another" comics vs manga discussion I'm trying to bring on, but I admit I wasn't precise enough while criticizing the manga overtones. You simply cannot deny the SHONEN and YAOI elements that are infiltrating the new Conan series.
We have a slim, small and almost girly bleached boy ( supposed to be Conan err...) fighting a hairy giant (giant? a tall man, but isn't Conan supposed to be already tall? he isn't 10yo!) while posing simply a hand on him, which is kind of yaoi, never before seen in ANY Conan cover art, I'm sorry to say this.
Conan's position in mid-air is very ninja-esque, reminiscent of teenager manga elements imported in american and euro comics this last decade.
I am VERY sorry to see the worst manga elements being imported in american and euro comics these days, it's a trend probably started by wapanese and other videogame freaks who constitute a large part of the comicbook market unfortunately.

You can see these videogame elements in movies, comics OUTSIDE of Japan now, while they were absent in the 80's 90's.

You yourself said there are 100 mangas released for every comic, but I don't see what that has to do with clichés: there are some US comics clichés, for example you can see them in the "How to draw comic book heroes and villains" (at amazon) , but there are ALSO manga clichés, clichés proper to each manga style (take for example giant eyes, the shape of the mouth when screaming, a cross on the forehead when unnerved etc), suffices to see any shonen cartoon from the 80's (how they scream, how they jump, run etc). True, some manga are realistic and stray from these cartoonesque elements, but it's far from being the majority.

Having effeminate characters jumping like ninjas in fetus position ,fighting giants, is not something the japanese invented, but it's MUCH more present in their mangas than in euro or US comics from the 80's 90's. The more effeminate, the more we get closer to yaoi CRAP. Marvel did the manga thingy more or less sucessfully, but look at some new comics and especially the euro comics today, they're being more and more influenced by the worst japanese clichés. If oly they could be inspired by the -cool and realistic- stuff.

We already have Elric of Melnibone as a "slim" bleached warrior in our western modern heroic culture, no need to "whiten up" Conan, thinning him down and dwarfing him as well, in an action scene that mimicks the manga BLEACH (kids flying in the air doing ninja moves with their mouths open)

Edited by JainkhulTamhair, 29 February 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#29 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:35 PM


Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan , or should I say a MANGA version: the cimmerian appears jumpy, small, skinny, bleached, his eyes and mouth seem to correspond to the manga standards and yaoi overtones (suffices to observe the composition on this dumb cover) are present more than ever.

I am extremely upset to see Dark Horse is following these DESPICABLE trends. There are some (rare) mangas which are well drawn and not cliche, but Dark Horse seems to force the Conan fans to accept "new" standards for Conan with the excuse that Conan is depicted "during his youth". Is that skinny character supposed to have broken a BULL'S NECK not long ago?
Why is Conan bleached and striking some manga-esque pose while his opponent is twice as big, twice as muscular and hairy? Conan is supposed to be a VERY TALL MAN even in his late teen years.

Many fans think Boris drew Conan in a way that was too "rigid" , too "statuesque", but Boris showed us a mighty Conan leagues beyond this young manga twerp acting like a ninja depicted on this cover.


You are forgetting that maybe, like Amster said, the guy with the mace is Conan, not the opposite, he, he.

That and the fact that the young twerp is holding a rubber knife, hence the awkward unnatural wrist position: the wind is blowing the supple prop blade upwards while he's jumping ;)

#30 KG Thunder

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:57 AM


Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan


More than that! I think that Mr. Carnevale is deliberatly making a bad cover, just to joke with all of us!
Do you want proof? Here it is...

Posted Image

Posted Image

I love these forums so much. :D
Doesn't matter how talented an artist may be, poor anatomy is poor anatomy.

#31 Ironhand

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:13 AM

No, wait, now I get it! The pale-skinned kid is the SON of Conan and Belit! During the two or three years that Conan and Belit sailed together, they had a son, who somehow got lost before Belit died. He had to support himself for nine years, and here we see him at the age of eleven, in a street fight with a chid abuser who wants to bugger him with the mace.

Edited by Ironhand, 01 March 2012 - 09:15 AM.

"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#32 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

Say what you want about that picture, but comparing it to manga is just pure ignorance.

Yeah, sure. See for yourself:
Posted Image

Some have compared to The Hulk, with valid reasons, but Hulk is never opposed to bleached young contortionists acting fruity , here he is fighting Thor:
Posted Image

and here is a comparison with a very despicable, crappy manga (my personal opinion) . Here at least, unlike with Carnevale, the thumbs of the giant are drawn right. Notice the skinny teenage twerp , I mean ftw....
Posted Image

Edited by JainkhulTamhair, 03 March 2012 - 02:17 AM.


#33 KG Thunder

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:07 AM


Say what you want about that picture, but comparing it to manga is just pure ignorance.

Yeah, sure. See for yourself:
Posted Image

Some have compared to The Hulk, with valid reasons, but Hulk is never opposed to bleached young contortionists acting fruity , here he is fighting Thor:
Posted Image

and here is a comparison with a very despicable, crappy manga (my personal opinion) . Here at least, unlike with Carnevale, the thumbs of the giant are drawn right. Notice the skinny teenage twerp , I mean ftw....
Posted Image

What does noticing the "skinny teenage twerp" have to do with anything? It makes sense that Conan should be bigger, but are we now going to start complaining that not all characters in different comics are big buff dudes? Might as well point out the stupid hat.

I am in no way a fan of manga, but you can't blame it for the 'warriors fighting bigger warriors' thing, as that's been a common theme in fantasy and art since the bible.

#34 JainkhulTamhair

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:20 AM

What does noticing the "skinny teenage twerp" have to do with anything? It makes sense that Conan should be bigger, but are we now going to start complaining that not all characters in different comics are big buff dudes? Might as well point out the stupid hat.
I am in no way a fan of manga, but you can't blame it for the 'warriors fighting bigger warriors' thing, as that's been a common theme in fantasy and art since the bible.


Oh no! I'm not blaming the manga, some people need stuff like that, to each his own style after all. You're right, and I never said the japanese invented slim and young vs big'ole giants.
I'm blaming Carnevale for being inspired by this style and modifying Conan accordingly to that inadequate standard in question (which is adequate for japanese comicbook heroes intended for a very young easily impressed public IMHO)

#35 monk

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

mikoza, your critique made me enjoy my coffee.

there's been worse, but i'm not favoring the peter pan treatment nor the white wash. what happened to burned by suns of a dozen lands and all that.

again, this is why we need a rubric for creatives.
"I live, I BURN WITH LIFE, I love, I slay, and am content."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA

"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."

#36 Slashing Sword

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:54 AM


Carnevale is offering us a CARNIVAL version of Conan


More than that! I think that Mr. Carnevale is deliberatly making a bad cover, just to joke with all of us!
Do you want proof? Here it is...

Posted Image

Posted Image

LMAO!!

#37 monk

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

Conan of Neverland.


you nailed that one Al.
"I live, I BURN WITH LIFE, I love, I slay, and am content."
"Here's to brother Painbrush, we drink to his Shade..."
"All Art Is Martial"- RZA

"Our basic purist premise:
ROBERT E. HOWARD, ENTIRELY ALONE, WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM ANY OTHER PERSON, CREATED THE CHARACTER CONAN OF CIMMERIA. NO OTHER PERSON OR PERSONS SHOULD BE INTRUDING THEIR WORK INTO THE VOLUMES OF HOWARD'S CONAN STORIES.
In essence, we believe that the work of any creative artist -- writer, painter, illustrator, musician, what-have-you -- is a unique expression of an artistic point of view. It should not be appropriated or altered by others without the artist's consent. No other writer has Robert E. Howard's unique point of view, and no other writer knows what Howard would have done with his character had he lived. Upon his death, his canon, the expression of his artistic vision, became fixed. Tampering with it now is desecration."

#38 mikoza

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

mikoza, your critique made me enjoy my coffee.


I am glad for that :) .

there's been worse, but i'm not favoring the peter pan treatment nor the white wash. what happened to burned by suns of a dozen lands and all that.


Yeah, that. And some hermaphrodite version of our favorite barbarian.

again, this is why we need a rubric for creatives.


No point. Dark Horse never listen to us. Sad, but true :( .

#39 ZackDavisson

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:19 AM

No point. Dark Horse never listen to us. Sad, but true :( .


Well, of course not. They are going to listen to sales. They are a business after all.

And by all reports, this series is selling at least double of previous Conan series.

#40 amster

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

I hate the cover, but to use an old cliche', you can't judge a book by it's cover. We might want to wait until the issue comes out before rendering a judgement on it.
Posted Image
Money and muscle, that's what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won't do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won't enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it.
--Robert E. Howard to Harold Preece, ca. June 1928--