58 replies to this topic

[Ironhand]

Keny, I'llhave to go backand re-read that. It's been so long I cannot recall.

I think that a WWI story dealing with a supernatural creature,or creatures, lurking in the trenches would make a great story. Maybe the characters discover that bodies are disappearing over night? Observation discovers that Lovecraftian style ghouls are sneaking in from underground and making off with the corpses.

WWI would be a death-trap for ghouls. Irresistably lured by a feast of corpses, they have no supernatural immunities like werewolves or vampires, in an environment where everybody is armed, if not with rifles, then with machine guns or artillery. Would REH have depicted the doomed ghouls as ugly but sympathetic critters, like Picts? Maybe WWI is when ghouls became extinct?

Edited by Ironhand, 19 September 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[constantine]

Keny, I'llhave to go backand re-read that. It's been so long I cannot recall.

I think that a WWI story dealing with a supernatural creature,or creatures, lurking in the trenches would make a great story. Maybe the characters discover that bodies are disappearing over night? Observation discovers that Lovecraftian style ghouls are sneaking in from underground and making off with the corpses.

WWI would be a death-trap for ghouls. Irresistably lured by a feast of corpses, they have no supernatural immunities like werewolves or vampires, in an environment where everybody is armed, if not with rifles, then with machine guns or artillery. Would REH have depicted the doomed ghouls as ugly but sympathetic critters, like Picts? Maybe WWI is when ghouls became extinct?

Actually, ghouls or other similar monstrosities could very well appear in a REH story, provided they know how to do their act. It may be that they come out from a hole in a deep dugout in a particularly fortified trench line (certain parts of German trenches in the western front reached up to 9 m./apr. 30 ft depth). An immensely ancient tomb, home of the monsters, may have been connected with the trench. The ghouls may find the exhausted soldiers an easy prey until the protagonist appears, possibly leading a small band of men.

Possibly, the unit has lost some unaccounted troops in a devastated, recently stormed German trench. Howard's indomitable sergeant is then sent to search for them, probably with few men under his command. Or he participates in a successful, bloody assault, finding afterwards that some men are inexplicably missing.

A thunderous artillery barrage, a German counterattack, a private who cracks and gets out of control, even a decadent, malignant German or Frenchman in league with the ghouls that rip their victims apart, all these things can be used to make a gut-wrenching weird tale a la Robert Howard.

[Albannach]

Howard had a fondness for Celts but he always seemed to lean more towards the Irish than the Scots. I'd have liked to seen something during the Wars of Independence under Robert the Bruce.

[deuce]

Howard had a fondness for Celts but he always seemed to lean more towards the Irish than the Scots. I'd have liked to seen something during the Wars of Independence under Robert the Bruce.

REH's childhood leanings were towards the Gaelic Scots and Sir Walter Scott was noted as a "favorite author". As I recall, Howard singled out the Bruce as one of his favorite historical personages (along with Jeanne d'Arc, King Arthur and other medieval notables). Sorry (for those "Classical-era" boosters), about the only "Classical" individual that Bob admired (other than barbarian Celts) was Hannibal.

[deuce]

this is a tough one to explain but i'll try.

Are there any character types you wish REH would have written about but didn't?

For example, would you like to have seen REH try a story about a Zulu warrior uniting warring tribes in southern africa? Or maybe a western style hero in the Australian bush? Or irish celtic sailors in north america?

Or maybe his take on a certain historical event. Just curious. Is there anything you'd have liked to have seen him try? character wise, story wise, setting wise, etc.

I just wish that Robert E. Howard could've written all the tales he flat-out stated he wanted to write:

"Now I've got to get hold of something on the Big Tatar (Tamerlane) and try to pound out a novelet; I've been thinking of writing a tale about him for a long time. And Babar the Tiger who established Mogul rule in India -- and the imperial phase in the life of Baibars the Panther, the subject of my last story -- and the rise of the Ottomans -- and the conquest of Constantinople by the Fifth Crusade -- and the subjugation of the Turks by the Arabs in the days of Abu Bekr -- and the gradual supplanting of the Arab masters by their Turkish slaves which culminated in the conquest of Asia Minor and Palestine by the Seljuks -- and the rise of Saladin --and the final destruction of Christian Outremer by Al Kalawun -- and the first Crusade -- Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin of Boulogne, Bohemund -- Sigurd the Jorsala-farer -- Barbarossa -- Coeur de Lion. Ye gods, I could write a century and still have only tapped the reservoir of dramatic possibilities. I wish to Hell I had a dozen markets for historical fiction -- I'd never write anything else."

Hear hear! Not to mention his stated desire to write a novel about John Wesley Hardin.

I do think REH had some interest in the 18th Century frontier. He apparently read Chambers and Altsheler and he talked about Simon Kenton and Lewis Wetzel in a letter. Beyond the Black River uses elements (and naming conventions) from the NY state Iroquois frontier. Don't think he'd have done a George Washington character, though. More likely a rough-hewn semi-barbarian long hunter. Just the thought of it makes me freakin' salivate!

My previous comment was a bit from the hip. You're quite right, Fierro. In addition, REH quite proudly claimed to Lovecraft that he had ancestors who fought at Kings Mountain (I did as well).

[Albannach]

Howard had a fondness for Celts but he always seemed to lean more towards the Irish than the Scots. I'd have liked to seen something during the Wars of Independence under Robert the Bruce.

REH's childhood leanings were towards the Gaelic Scots and Sir Walter Scott was noted as a "favorite author". As I recall, Howard singled out the Bruce as one of his favorite historical personages (along with Jeanne d'Arc, King Arthur and other medieval notables). Sorry (for those "Classical-era" boosters), about the only "Classical" individual that Bob admired (other than barbarian Celts) was Hannibal.

Hannibal and all enemies of the Empire would have been great backgrounds. Although I've not read much of howard's historical stuff yet so I don't know if he went there outside of the Picts.

Another good character from history for Howard to write about, who is both a Scots and American hero, is John Paul Jones. With Howard's flare for swashbuckling adventure that could have been very interesting.

Nigel Tranter has written a few historical adventures about Scottish history which I've heard good things about. Has anyone read those?

Edited by Albannach, 27 January 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[Fierro]

Howard had a fondness for Celts but he always seemed to lean more towards the Irish than the Scots. I'd have liked to seen something during the Wars of Independence under Robert the Bruce.

REH's childhood leanings were towards the Gaelic Scots and Sir Walter Scott was noted as a "favorite author". As I recall, Howard singled out the Bruce as one of his favorite historical personages (along with Jeanne d'Arc, King Arthur and other medieval notables). Sorry (for those "Classical-era" boosters), about the only "Classical" individual that Bob admired (other than barbarian Celts) was Hannibal.

Hannibal and all enemies of the Empire would have been great backgrounds. Although I've not read much of howard's historical stuff yet so I don't know if he went there outside of the Picts.

Another good character from history for Howard to write about, who is both a Scots and American hero, is John Paul Jones. With Howard's flare for swashbuckling adventure that could have been very interesting.

Nigel Tranter has written a few historical adventures about Scottish history which I've heard good things about. Has anyone read those?

One of REH's favorite writers, Harold Lamb, did a John Paul Jones story, which can be found in the compilation "Swords From The Sea."

[Albannach]

Ah cool. He's quite an over looked historical figure.

[deuce]

Howard had a fondness for Celts but he always seemed to lean more towards the Irish than the Scots. I'd have liked to seen something during the Wars of Independence under Robert the Bruce.

REH's childhood leanings were towards the Gaelic Scots and Sir Walter Scott was noted as a "favorite author". As I recall, Howard singled out the Bruce as one of his favorite historical personages (along with Jeanne d'Arc, King Arthur and other medieval notables). Sorry (for those "Classical-era" boosters), about the only "Classical" individual that Bob admired (other than barbarian Celts) was Hannibal.

Hannibal and all enemies of the Empire would have been great backgrounds. Although I've not read much of howard's historical stuff yet so I don't know if he went there outside of the Picts.

Basically, one Bran Mak Morn yarn takes place (somewhat) within the "Greco-Roman" world. The other two are beyond the frontiers (as are a few other tales that don't involve "Greco-Roman" civilization at all). There is also a short vignette involving an Athenian woman and her Spartan lover. Other than that, all of REH's pre-Modern tales take place either before about 500BC (Howard's "Ancient" period) or after about 400AD up through around 1660AD (REH's idiosyncratic "Dark Age/Medieval" period).

I'd like to note that I totally forgot to mention one Classical personage.

In One Who Walked Alone by Novalyne Price (there's a thread here on the Forum), she reports that REH mentioned Alexander at least three times with varying degrees of admiration (he basically never mentioned the Macedonian in his letters). Considering the man is still, today, well-known from San Diego to Galway to Samarkand (with numerous cities bearing his name), it's not that hard to understand.

Speaking of Samarkand, if you haven't read The Lord of Samarcand, you should. All about a Highlander in the Tatar Khan's court. You seem to be a history buff. You need to read Howard's historicals.

Another good character from history for Howard to write about, who is both a Scots and American hero, is John Paul Jones. With Howard's flare for swashbuckling adventure that could have been very interesting.

As I've noted, Howard seems to have left 1660-1800 alone, for whatever reasons.

As Fierro noted, Harold Lamb wrote at least one excellent JPJ story (I remember more) in Swords From the Sea.

[Albannach]

Keny, I'llhave to go backand re-read that. It's been so long I cannot recall.

I think that a WWI story dealing with a supernatural creature,or creatures, lurking in the trenches would make a great story. Maybe the characters discover that bodies are disappearing over night? Observation discovers that Lovecraftian style ghouls are sneaking in from underground and making off with the corpses.

WWI would be a death-trap for ghouls. Irresistably lured by a feast of corpses, they have no supernatural immunities like werewolves or vampires, in an environment where everybody is armed, if not with rifles, then with machine guns or artillery. Would REH have depicted the doomed ghouls as ugly but sympathetic critters, like Picts? Maybe WWI is when ghouls became extinct?

I have to say or western concept of a Ghoul is generally as incorrect as our post-Romero idea of the Zombie.
Ghouls are actually far more deadly than vampires and werewolves. They are Jinn, which are more inline with Demons than again our western perception of the Genie, They can shape shift even taking on the form of those they eat. They really are non-physical beings that can 'possess' bodies.

I have been researching the supernatural and folklore for sometime for a series I'm working on and you'd be surprised just how much we take from 3rd hand interpretation such as films regarding most beings.

[bedlum]

He could of given the Spartacus tale an edge

[Pictish Scout]

I would love more crusader tales (1st Crusade, 3rd and 4th specially). Historical adventure in the Ottoman Empire, Egypt, Persia and India of the 1500's with a "celtic" protagonist, for sure.

And tales about muslim and christian pirates in the medit sea in the same period ( 1500's).

[constantine]

Keny, I'llhave to go backand re-read that. It's been so long I cannot recall.

I think that a WWI story dealing with a supernatural creature,or creatures, lurking in the trenches would make a great story. Maybe the characters discover that bodies are disappearing over night? Observation discovers that Lovecraftian style ghouls are sneaking in from underground and making off with the corpses.

WWI would be a death-trap for ghouls. Irresistably lured by a feast of corpses, they have no supernatural immunities like werewolves or vampires, in an environment where everybody is armed, if not with rifles, then with machine guns or artillery. Would REH have depicted the doomed ghouls as ugly but sympathetic critters, like Picts? Maybe WWI is when ghouls became extinct?

I have to say or western concept of a Ghoul is generally as incorrect as our post-Romero idea of the Zombie.
Ghouls are actually far more deadly than vampires and werewolves. They are Jinn, which are more inline with Demons than again our western perception of the Genie, They can shape shift even taking on the form of those they eat. They really are non-physical beings that can 'possess' bodies.

I have been researching the supernatural and folklore for sometime for a series I'm working on and you'd be surprised just how much we take from 3rd hand interpretation such as films regarding most beings.

The ghouls as they often appear in modern literature - for example, in the works of REH, HPL and CAS - might be a by-product of 18th-19th c. depictions. Obviously, they were different from the Arabic al-ghul from which they were inspired. But it wasn't the interpretation of a cheap B-movie and there isn't exactly a massive corpus of Semitic literature on the ghouls to make their ''western'' imagery such a gross distortion.

So, methinks that a WWI story including ghouls, written by Howard, might have been pretty good.

[Albannach]

Keny, I'llhave to go backand re-read that. It's been so long I cannot recall.

I think that a WWI story dealing with a supernatural creature,or creatures, lurking in the trenches would make a great story. Maybe the characters discover that bodies are disappearing over night? Observation discovers that Lovecraftian style ghouls are sneaking in from underground and making off with the corpses.

WWI would be a death-trap for ghouls. Irresistably lured by a feast of corpses, they have no supernatural immunities like werewolves or vampires, in an environment where everybody is armed, if not with rifles, then with machine guns or artillery. Would REH have depicted the doomed ghouls as ugly but sympathetic critters, like Picts? Maybe WWI is when ghouls became extinct?

I have to say or western concept of a Ghoul is generally as incorrect as our post-Romero idea of the Zombie.
Ghouls are actually far more deadly than vampires and werewolves. They are Jinn, which are more inline with Demons than again our western perception of the Genie, They can shape shift even taking on the form of those they eat. They really are non-physical beings that can 'possess' bodies.

I have been researching the supernatural and folklore for sometime for a series I'm working on and you'd be surprised just how much we take from 3rd hand interpretation such as films regarding most beings.

The ghouls as they often appear in modern literature - for example, in the works of REH, HPL and CAS - might be a by-product of 18th-19th c. depictions. Obviously, they were different from the Arabic al-ghul from which they were inspired. But it wasn't the interpretation of a cheap B-movie and there isn't exactly a massive corpus of Semitic literature on the ghouls to make their ''western'' imagery such a gross distortion.

So, methinks that a WWI story including ghouls, written by Howard, might have been pretty good.

Howard probably read Arabian nights though (Wow just thinking R.E.Howard's Sinbad the Sailor would be some set of tales).
Ah but no doubt by this period many supernatural creatures had already been set in their third hand interpretations. It's funny most things we associate with with these folkloric beasts have absolutely no basis in the culture on any countries of their origin. Vampires can walk in sunlight, It doesn't take silver to kill a werewolf, zombies don't eat flesh nor does shooting them in the head do anything.

And yet fiction seems to churn on and on with what other fiction said.

But yea 'Trench of the Dead' does sound good although I think it would have been adapted into a Naziploitation film by the late 70's

[Albannach]

On talk of this folklore research is there anywhere to share original stories on here? Not Howard pastiches but original works of a similar genre?

[svent13]

I do think REH had some interest in the 18th Century frontier. He apparently read Chambers and Altsheler and he talked about Simon Kenton and Lewis Wetzel in a letter. Beyond the Black River uses elements (and naming conventions) from the NY state Iroquois frontier. Don't think he'd have done a George Washington character, though. More likely a rough-hewn semi-barbarian long hunter. Just the thought of it makes me freakin' salivate!

 

I think REH could have written a darned fine tale of Simon Gurdy.  His life kinda reads like a Howard tale as it is, without any embellishments.

[Keith J Taylor]

Albannach -- I like your interest in history, and I'd really have loved to see REH write more historicals too.  I read a few of Nigel Tranter's historicals, oh, more than twenty years ago now.  His Robert the Bruce trilogy is good.  The titles were THE STEPS TO THE EMPTY THRONE, THE PATH OF THE HERO KING and THE PRICE OF THE KING'S PEACE.  The first one featured William Wallace and had Bruce getting colossally upset, raging, grieving, and finally turning against King Edward completely, when he heard how Wallace had died.  He wrote a novel about the Black Douglas as well.  It would have been great if REH had done a story or two about the Bruce's brother Edward and his exploits in Ireland.  Come to that, he could have taken Solomon Kane north to the Anglo-Scottish border at one point.  And I really regret that he never did that yarn about Sigurd the Jerusalem-Farer that he wanted to write.  Sigurd was only eighteen when he embarked on that voyage, actually ... but then Edward III was even younger when he overthrew Mortimer and took power in England into his own kingly hands.  Damn! I just wish REH had lived a lot longer and found happiness and peace of mind.  As well as writing more, of course.

[Keith J Taylor]

For a real departure, something REH never actually did, it would have been fascinating to see his take on some of the subjects of the Aztec Empire (before the Spaniards came) fighting back against their overlords and resisting the tribute they demanded -- for slaves and sacrificial victims.  Up against the warrior orders of the Jaguar and Eagle, and maybe a fiendish Aztec sorcerer-priest.  (He approached that flavour in the Conan yarn "Red Nails" anyway, so maybe I'm wrong to say it was something he NEVER actually did ... but I'm thinking in the history we know.)

[Kane]

Going a bit off the beaten track, I recently rer-read Philip Wylie's Gladiator.

I wonder what Howard would have done with the concept of a modern 'Superman'.

The closest he seems to have come to the concept is Cain in the novella Almuric's first chapter.

And of course most of his characters were supermen in terms of their strength, endurance, and willpower.

But I am curious what he would have done with an almost physically impervious man attempting to live in, at the time of Howard's life, the modern world.

Would he have the character attempt to hide his abilities?

Would he become a criminal, or hero?

Would he abandon the civilized world for the chance to find a spot in a far distant corner and establish himself as the leader of a primitive people and become their leader?

Just a few idle thoughts on my part.