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Conan The Barbarian #3


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#1 ZackDavisson

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:37 PM

I looked around and I don't think we have an official thread for this, so ...

I have read and reviewed this, and I really loved this issue. But I think some people are going to hate it.

Brian officially moves away from doing any sort of adaptation here, and moves onto his own story. Especially with characterization. This is not Robert E. Howard's Belit. And somehow that made it better.

I think I was trapped in a sort of Uncanny Valley with his first two issues. It was that Howard / Not-Howard schizm that I found frustrating. Now that I can read this as an entirely Brian Wood comic, staring his version of Howard's Conan, I enjoy it more.

I talked to Brian this weekend, and hopefully we can get together for a follow-up interview. It is interesting to see how much control he has over what he is writing, and how much is being dictated to him as to what rules he has to follow. He has to balance what Howard wrote, what he wants to write, and what the Conan liscence holders want him to write.

#2 Officer Aggro

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:47 PM

Well, I suppose at this point it's pretty much open for pastiche until they get towards the end of the story arc anyway. Does she at least do her mating dance, or do they skip that part? ;)
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#3 ZackDavisson

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

No mating dance. In fact, Belit is VERY different in her approach to Conan. More of a shy flower waiting to be taken than a conquering goddess.

I would despise it is Wood wasn't so good with setting mood and using dialog.

#4 KG Thunder

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:54 PM

Personally, I'm fine with losing the mating dance. It works well in the world and story REH created, but when seen with modern eyes in a modern comic book, it might come off as laughable and an easy target for the "Conan is just ridiculous male fantasy/escapism" argument.
Not sure how I feel about changing Bêlit, though... I'll wait and read the book before raging.

#5 amster

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:04 AM

Personally, I'm fine with losing the mating dance. It works well in the world and story REH created, but when seen with modern eyes in a modern comic book, it might come off as laughable and an easy target for the "Conan is just ridiculous male fantasy/escapism" argument.
Not sure how I feel about changing Bêlit, though... I'll wait and read the book before raging.


One of the most iconic scenes in the entire Conan canon? Yeah, I'm fine with losing it, too, just like I would be fine with losing the crucifixion scene in A Witch Shall Be Born, or the battle with Baal Pteor in Man-Eaters of Zamboula. For anyone who didn't manage to pick up on it, that's sarcasm, btw. <_<

Still, the first two issues were excellent, so I'm going to try to keep an open mind and see where they're going with it.
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#6 Officer Aggro

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:22 AM

No mating dance. In fact, Belit is VERY different in her approach to Conan. More of a shy flower waiting to be taken than a conquering goddess.

I would despise it is Wood wasn't so good with setting mood and using dialog.


Well, can't say I'm at all pleased with the exclusion of the mating dance. Damn. Like amster said, that's one of the most iconic scenes, and I was really looking forward to seeing it. I'm still eager to read this adaptation, of course, but I don't think it was a good idea to leave that part out.
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#7 ZackDavisson

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:27 AM

I personally think that with the way the comic is written, and with Wood's take on Belit, leaving the dance in wouldn't have worked. His pacing and tone is less dramatic than Howard's, and like KG Thunder said, what works in Howard's prose doesn't always translate well.

#8 johnnypt

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:15 AM

Personally, I'm fine with losing the mating dance. It works well in the world and story REH created, but when seen with modern eyes in a modern comic book, it might come off as laughable and an easy target for the "Conan is just ridiculous male fantasy/escapism" argument.
Not sure how I feel about changing Bêlit, though... I'll wait and read the book before raging.


You take out the mating dance, you change Belit right there. However, there's always the opportunity to do it later. It is absolutely an important part of the story and I do expect to see it, but if it works better later on as say the climax (no pun intended) of the first year, I can see doing it that way.

#9 Ironhand

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:24 AM

NO MATING DANCE!!!!! OK, tell me, when is DH going to issue Queen of the Black Coast for real? I'll be waiting.

As for Brian Wood, he can do Elric. And Cloony would probably be a good artist for that. Not that I'm holding my breath.

Edited by Ironhand, 03 April 2012 - 02:26 AM.

"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#10 ZackDavisson

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:07 AM

You take out the mating dance, you change Belit right there. However, there's always the opportunity to do it later. It is absolutely an important part of the story and I do expect to see it, but if it works better later on as say the climax (no pun intended) of the first year, I can see doing it that way.


Don't hold your breath. And yes, Belit is completely changed as a character.

#11 KG Thunder

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:52 AM


Personally, I'm fine with losing the mating dance. It works well in the world and story REH created, but when seen with modern eyes in a modern comic book, it might come off as laughable and an easy target for the "Conan is just ridiculous male fantasy/escapism" argument.
Not sure how I feel about changing Bêlit, though... I'll wait and read the book before raging.


One of the most iconic scenes in the entire Conan canon? Yeah, I'm fine with losing it, too, just like I would be fine with losing the crucifixion scene in A Witch Shall Be Born, or the battle with Baal Pteor in Man-Eaters of Zamboula. For anyone who didn't manage to pick up on it, that's sarcasm, btw. <_<

Still, the first two issues were excellent, so I'm going to try to keep an open mind and see where they're going with it.


Personally, I'm fine with losing the mating dance. It works well in the world and story REH created, but when seen with modern eyes in a modern comic book, it might come off as laughable and an easy target for the "Conan is just ridiculous male fantasy/escapism" argument.
Not sure how I feel about changing Bêlit, though... I'll wait and read the book before raging.


You take out the mating dance, you change Belit right there. However, there's always the opportunity to do it later. It is absolutely an important part of the story and I do expect to see it, but if it works better later on as say the climax (no pun intended) of the first year, I can see doing it that way.


All I'm saying is that I understand why Wood felt it wouldn't work in THIS version of the story. He is attempting to expand and add more subtlety to the story and characters, therefor something as audacious as a woman ripping her clothes off and dancing to seduce Conan probably wouldn't work the right way in this comic. The only reason I'm okay with it is because I have already accepted and understand that this will be very different from the original story.

As I've stated before, I'm not at all happy with Bêlit being turned into nothing but a soft girl with a crush. Conan has had enough supplicant babes, and Bêlit is supposed to be the opposite of that. Otherwise, why would Conan love and sail with her? I really hope Wood starts showing her power and strength soon, especially since the mating dance is gone.

Edited by KG Thunder, 03 April 2012 - 07:00 AM.


#12 Gin-Wulf

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

doesn't changing Belit to a shy timid thing TOTALY screw up everything, i mean who she is why she is there, and WHY conan loves her?
i think the things like her "asking" conan to be with her was a mistake, and take away the mating dance were she basically says , you are mine to conan (not in those words but that was the fine of the scene as i read it in the book.
and in this day and age , i don't get people liking the weaker more timid Belit. i thought a character as strong as her would be well welcomed today.
i really thought that this team would make Belit a kick A$s pirate warrior women, but it seems they have went the opposite way. they say they want new readers with this series run, so the way to do that is to take one of the (if not the most)loved female character and not show her greatness and strength <_< i just don't get it.
they could have really hyped her up in this run and gave the female fans a "new" heroine.
soft timid Belit seems no different than any other girl he meets.

#13 johnnypt

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:24 PM


You take out the mating dance, you change Belit right there. However, there's always the opportunity to do it later. It is absolutely an important part of the story and I do expect to see it, but if it works better later on as say the climax (no pun intended) of the first year, I can see doing it that way.


Don't hold your breath. And yes, Belit is completely changed as a character.


:angry: I've said I'm going to let the whole 25 issues play out before completely making a decision because this is a totally different take on the story. Two years is a long time and I still think it's an event that can be used later on. I've learned to be OK with the detail changes/omissions (i.e.-helmet), but totally getting rid of key events in the story and not finding anywhere to use them in 25 issues, I'll admit I do have a problem with that (if that is what happens). Have to wait until next week and see for myself.

Edited by johnnypt, 03 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.


#14 Aquilonia

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:59 PM

I also don`t understand why altering these things are important for Wood... maybe he will include the dance later on, who knows? The guy likes to trick fans, it seems.

#15 ZackDavisson

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:12 PM

Hopefully Brian can speak for himself during the interview, but one of the main things he wanted people to know is that it isn't always his choice as to what to keep and what to drop. I don't know specifically about that scene, but he seems to be working from specific detectives.

And while things may change, I really doubt the dance will show up at any time in the series.

#16 johnnypt

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:22 PM

Hopefully Brian can speak for himself during the interview, but one of the main things he wanted people to know is that it isn't always his choice as to what to keep and what to drop. I don't know specifically about that scene, but he seems to be working from specific detectives.

And while things may change, I really doubt the dance will show up at any time in the series.


Then whoever's decision it was, if that's how it ends up, it's a mistake and will be a mark against the series in my eyes.

#17 Ironhand

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:11 AM

Belit a shrinking flower? FLOWER OF THE BLACK COAST?!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

If Wood wants to do pastiches, then let him do pastiches. They'd probably be good if he's so talented. But DON'T make a pastiche out of an original Howard story for Crom's sake!

And if it's a directive from DH, what's got into them? What does Paradox think of this? This is diluting and distorting the Conan product.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

Sorry about the ambiguity. Sometimes I get vague.

Edited by Ironhand, 04 April 2012 - 06:11 AM.

"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#18 Ironhand

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:17 AM

This series is going to leave me STILL wanting to see Queen of the Black Coast.

What's the buzz on this on the DH forum?

Now we know why DH is calling this Conan the Barbarian, not Queen of the Black Coast. Maybe they still plan to publish the real QotBC.

This FotBC is like an alternate universe.
"Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man...!" - Conan, in "Shadows in Zamboula", by Robert E. Howard
"... you speak of Venarium familiarly. Perhaps you were there?"
"I was," grunted [Conan]. "I was one of the horde that swarmed over the hills. I hadn't yet seen fifteen snows, but already my name was repeated about the council fires." - "Beyond the Black River", by Robert E. Howard

Read my Conan screenplays at The Scrolls of Ironhand (in particular my transcription of THE FROST GIANT'S DAUGHTER in Act II of "The Snow Devil") at
http://www.scrollsof...d.us/index.html or at
http://www.delicious...ic=ConanProject

#19 Taranaich

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:53 AM

Is it possible Wood's just moved the mating dance to a later date?

*Feverishly scrambling for Devil's Advocate hat*

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#20 ZackDavisson

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:15 AM

And if it's a directive from DH, what's got into them? What does Paradox think of this? This is diluting and distorting the Conan product.

.

He didn't go into specifics, but I got the feeling that the directives were from Paradox. I don't want to speak for him or make it sound like I know more than what I know .... just a 10 minute chat or so, but that is the what I gleand.

And Taranaich, as I have said (several times now) I don't think anyone should be holding out for a later mating dance. Anything is possible I suppose. But I really, really, really doubt that Brian is planning on it.

Edited by ZackDavisson, 04 April 2012 - 07:16 AM.